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LS2 w/LS3 heads & a super victor... how well will it work??

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Old 03-19-2017, 09:58 PM   #1
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Default LS2 w/LS3 heads & a super victor... how well will it work??

Hey guys, have been questioning how good my setup that I've been putting together will work....
It's an LS2 6.0, LS3 heads, super Victor intake, accufab 4150, custom BTR cam for single plane intake.

Talking with some other builders locally and we are debating how well this setup will work.
The main questions are:
Are the ls3 heads and the super Victor Gonna be too much air coming in?
Is the motor gonna be lazy?
Is it too much intake?
Will I need a better header?

Our altitude is 6000+ also.... if that has any importance.
Any insight is appreciated...
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Old 03-19-2017, 10:43 PM   #2
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Vr Jr enough for 700+ FWHP with 403" LLSR @ 7000-7500 RPM.
So yes super victor for LS3 Heads TOO BIG for less than 427"
7500 RPM, Solid roller cam & 1000 CFM Carb. IMO.
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Old 03-19-2017, 11:15 PM   #3
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Do it'll run like crap??
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Old 03-19-2017, 11:24 PM   #4
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Yes! But only till 7000 RPM, Then it will run great
With 14.00:1 Compression and a Giant Solid Roller
260+/270++. .800"/.800"
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Old 03-19-2017, 11:38 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by FbodyFreak View Post
Do it'll run like crap??
Anytime you run a single plane it's go be hard for it not to drive like crap cheap in traffic etc..... real question is how fast do you want to go ? Be realistic
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Old 03-19-2017, 11:44 PM   #6
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I don't really care how the car drives on the streets. Just care how it runs at the track....
I basically wanted almost a MAX effort budget build. If that makes sense or is possible. Lol
I am setting it up to rev to 7200~7600 rpm
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Old 03-20-2017, 01:17 PM   #7
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Just for you car is lighter so do the math.

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Ed stated : It was inevitable that we'd run an article on a hybrid hoss like Dave Mizell's 1990 Mustang. Packing gen III and IV parts under the hood, this Pony run 9.95 without a power adder, and on 93 pump gas, so keep reading...

Unlike most gearheads, Dave Mizell didn’t get bit by the performance bug until he was almost thirty. He addressed his need for speed by buying and modifying a 1971 Chevelle. This car had a mild 396 big block and went through a few combinations including a strong naturally aspirated setup utilizing a solid roller camshaft and some more compression. It was pretty cool driving to and from the track and running [email protected] in that 3900 lb car.. Dave also repurchased a 1966 Ranchero he had owned in the 80’s and got that to run [email protected] with a junkyard shortblock and some AFR heads.

But eventually high 11’s weren’t enough, and Dave found himself wanting a much faster car, preferably one deep in the 10's. A friend offered to sell him a 1990 Mustang LX 4 cylinder car that had a blown engine at a pretty cheap price, so Dave snapped it up. Dave had long been impressed with Fox Body Mustangs, and knew that he could get the car pretty light with tried and true weight reduction techniques. Major weight reduction was achieved by ditching the stock HVAC, sound deadener, carpeting, and other items that are typically removed or replaced with lightweight parts when building a Mustang race car like Dave’s LX. Swap meets yielded up great deals on wheels and suspension parts. “I’m kind of thrifty plus the prices for Mustang parts have come way down the last five or so years.”

When it came to the powertrain, Dave showed that he was truly brand agnostic, and went with a LSX-based combo. Three influences lured him into the LSX family. A local friend, Mikey Kleman owns Rapid Motorsports and has been building quick LSX powered cars for ten years. Another mutual friend, Larry Zimmerman, actively races a quick LSX-powered car with a engine built by Mikey. The final straw if you will, was a extremely thorough article penned by Jeff Smith of Car Craft. This article discussed going fast on a budget, which of course caught Dave’s attention. They ultimately hit 550 HP with a junkyard 6.0 shortblock, stock L92 heads, custom cam, GMPP intake, and an 850 CFM carburetor. He decided at that point to take the plunge.

On paper the combo looked good for low 10’s, which would solve his need to have a car that run much quicker than high 11’s, and it would set the car up nicely for a local index racing series. Dave bought a complete LQ4 longblock for $1400, and then recouped some of his dough by selling off the heads and other parts he didn’t need. He picked up a set of L92’s from well regarded GM dealer Scoggin Dickey. A GMPP intake and MSD 6010 were also ordered. An AJE Racing conversion K-member was also ordered. This K-member comes equipped with LSX-ready motor mounts. A Meziere race water pump was also purchased, as well as some Kooks 1.875 full length conversion headers made specifically for Mustang swaps.

Dave and friend Mikey Kleman of Rapid Motorsports came up with a custom camshaft that would hopefully make good power, and make peak HP around 6600 – 6700, which was Dave’s goal for the car. This custom grind required flycutting the pistons, so Dave disassembled the shortblock and had Doug Meyers at Automotive Machine Service cut the necessary notches.

The car initially ran [email protected] which for many is a great start but Dave knew there was much, much more in it. He retuned the carburetor and went over the tune, and was rewarded with a stronger [email protected] on his next pass. He later swapped out the 3.73 gears he had been running and went with 4.10’s. He made the right call as the car went even quicker running a [email protected] Emboldened by his strong progress, he revised the ignition curve and ran [email protected] His 60 FT times were a little soft, and even on that 10.19 pass the car only mustered up a 1.55.

At this point it was winter, so Dave decided to repaint the car, and had a local Maaco reshoot the factory color of Cabernet Red. Dave also had Lenny at Ulimate Converter restall his converter, which was only stalling to 3800. Loosening up the converter was just the right ticket, as the car went [email protected] right off the trailer in March of 2009. His Mustang also achieved a 1.42 short time. His next pass he ran his personal best, [email protected] At that point he was politely told by track officials to return after he got his competition license, 9-second legal rollcage, and the other changes that would make his car legal to run quicker than 9.99 seconds He ordered the S&W front-half conversion, and had Dave Guenst of Guenst Motorsports augment the 6-point rollbar that he had previously installed for Dave. The Mustang’s rollcage was certified to 8.50 and he then made his license passes. Dave is thrilled to be running 9’s naturally aspirated with a stock bottom end LQ4, and credits help from a number of friends both local and online for their advice and assistance while piecing the car together.

While he’s enjoyed running the local index series (www.NAshootout.com), he’s getting a little bored… Again. He’s thinking about running another class that would require him to run high 8’s naturally aspirated. He’s thinking he can run that with an LSX combo. Stay tuned.
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Old 03-20-2017, 01:33 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FbodyFreak View Post
Hey guys, have been questioning how good my setup that I've been putting together will work....
It's an LS2 6.0, LS3 heads, super Victor intake, accufab 4150, custom BTR cam for single plane intake.

Talking with some other builders locally and we are debating how well this setup will work.
The main questions are:
Are the ls3 heads and the super Victor Gonna be too much air coming in?
Is the motor gonna be lazy?
Is it too much intake?
Will I need a better header?

Our altitude is 6000+ also.... if that has any importance.
Any insight is appreciated...
Quote:
Originally Posted by FbodyFreak View Post
I don't really care how the car drives on the streets. Just care how it runs at the track....
I basically wanted almost a MAX effort budget build. If that makes sense or is possible. Lol
I am setting it up to rev to 7200~7600 rpm
That setup can work for sure. Being at high elevation just makes it tough to make power naturally aspirated.

Some questions:

Vehicle?
Raceweight?
Compression ratio? Is this stock bottom end or a built engine with good pistons?
What transmission? Stall converter?
Rear gear? Tire height?
Performance goals?
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Old 03-20-2017, 05:34 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAMMOTION PERF View Post
That setup can work for sure. Being at high elevation just makes it tough to make power naturally aspirated.

Some questions:

Vehicle?
Raceweight?
Compression ratio? Is this stock bottom end or a built engine with good pistons?
What transmission? Stall converter?
Rear gear? Tire height?
Performance goals?
@cammotionperf
Vehicle is a : 2001 trans am
Raceweight: 3250~ with me in it
Compression ratio: 10.5:1 ~ (whatever a stock ls2 with stock ls3 heads is)
Transmission: Rossler TH400 terminator t2.5
Stall coverter: PTC 8inch 4000-4500
Gear: 3.73
Tire: 26 inch MT et street ss
Performance goals: AS FAST A POSSIBLE without killing my wallet
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Old 03-21-2017, 08:29 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FbodyFreak View Post
Hey guys, have been questioning how good my setup that I've been putting together will work....
It's an LS2 6.0, LS3 heads, super Victor intake, accufab 4150, custom BTR cam for single plane intake.

Talking with some other builders locally and we are debating how well this setup will work.
The main questions are:
Are the ls3 heads and the super Victor Gonna be too much air coming in?
Is the motor gonna be lazy?
Is it too much intake?
Will I need a better header?

Our altitude is 6000+ also.... if that has any importance.
Any insight is appreciated...
Quote:
Originally Posted by FbodyFreak View Post
I don't really care how the car drives on the streets. Just care how it runs at the track....
I basically wanted almost a MAX effort budget build. If that makes sense or is possible. Lol
I am setting it up to rev to 7200~7600 rpm
Quote:
Originally Posted by FbodyFreak View Post
@cammotionperf
Vehicle is a : 2001 trans am
Raceweight: 3250~ with me in it
Compression ratio: 10.5:1 ~ (whatever a stock ls2 with stock ls3 heads is)
Transmission: Rossler TH400 terminator t2.5
Stall coverter: PTC 8inch 4000-4500
Gear: 3.73
Tire: 26 inch MT et street ss
Performance goals: AS FAST A POSSIBLE without killing my wallet
According to my calculations, an LS2 with un-milled LS3 heads and a factory .051" gasket is 10.36:1.

We actually created a camshaft just for street/strip guys running single plane intake manifolds on stock bottom end LS engines. We have one for cathedral port heads and one for rectangle port heads. They are called the "Junkyard Dog" cams. They have good piston-to-valve clearance as long as you have not milled the heads more than .010"

Here is the one for your rectangle port combo:
http://store.cammotion.com/junkyard-...-port-camshaft

This camshaft will love your 4000-4500 converter and will make peak about 6700 RPM. Maybe higher with the Super Vic intake. With your displacement and RPM range, your car may actually be a bit quicker with a Victor Jr.. The Super Vic for rectangle port heads is a very large intake and is likely too big.

Either way, if your car is tuned to its potential, it will be capable of running well into the 10s.
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Old 03-21-2017, 09:57 AM   #11
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Go with the Cam Motion Cam and get the Victor Jr. and you will
be very happy.

Super Vic is Too Big!

Your set up will be much faster & more fun to drive with the Jr.
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Old 03-21-2017, 10:10 AM   #12
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I've ran a few 6.0 LS3 head combos with the Vic Jr. All were big cam, high stall and they all ran well for being simple setups. We ran bottom 11's high 10's in a much heavier car so you should be deep into the 10's long as its tuned well and has traction. Throw a plate kit on it when you want some more power and be rewarded with single digit timeslips.
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Old 03-21-2017, 10:15 AM   #13
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All dependent on the cam and supporting mods.
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Old 03-22-2017, 08:10 PM   #14
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Keep in mind that at 6000 feet of altitude let alone density altitude, your engine is going to run like it has 8.5:1 compression, maybe even less once you factor in DA. The cam has to be very specific to work with this, just as you would any low compression N/A engine. At higher altitudes there is less air density and thus your engine generates less cylinder pressure. Basically you are going to lose the same amount of power, and create the same situation as removing 2 points of compression from the engine.

To really turn a lot of RPM at high altitude I've found that compression is king. You just cannot run the kind of camshaft that you need to run to turn 7600rpm without having some squeeze to go with it.
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Old 03-23-2017, 01:58 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAMMOTION PERF View Post
According to my calculations, an LS2 with un-milled LS3 heads and a factory .051" gasket is 10.36:1.

We actually created a camshaft just for street/strip guys running single plane intake manifolds on stock bottom end LS engines. We have one for cathedral port heads and one for rectangle port heads. They are called the "Junkyard Dog" cams. They have good piston-to-valve clearance as long as you have not milled the heads more than .010"

Here is the one for your rectangle port combo:
http://store.cammotion.com/junkyard-...-port-camshaft

This camshaft will love your 4000-4500 converter and will make peak about 6700 RPM. Maybe higher with the Super Vic intake. With your displacement and RPM range, your car may actually be a bit quicker with a Victor Jr.. The Super Vic for rectangle port heads is a very large intake and is likely too big.

Either way, if your car is tuned to its potential, it will be capable of running well into the 10s.
Thanks for the suggestion!


Quote:
Originally Posted by NAVYBLUE210 View Post
Go with the Cam Motion Cam and get the Victor Jr. and you will
be very happy.

Super Vic is Too Big!

Your set up will be much faster & more fun to drive with the Jr.
Yeah I am considering going to the VICTOR Jr, atleast until I go stroker...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLOW SEDAN View Post
I've ran a few 6.0 LS3 head combos with the Vic Jr. All were big cam, high stall and they all ran well for being simple setups. We ran bottom 11's high 10's in a much heavier car so you should be deep into the 10's long as its tuned well and has traction. Throw a plate kit on it when you want some more power and be rewarded with single digit timeslips.
Yeah already got a plate kit. Planning on a 150-200 shot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rise of the Phoenix View Post
All dependent on the cam and supporting mods.
STOCK LS2
STOCK L92 heads
Super victor intake
Accufab 4150 TB
Ls3 42# injectors
BTR stage 4 cam (ground for single plane)
1 7/8 headers
Mezire Elec. Water pump

Drivetrain:
Rossler terminator 2.5 th400
PCT 8inch converter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Smallwood View Post
Keep in mind that at 6000 feet of altitude let alone density altitude, your engine is going to run like it has 8.5:1 compression, maybe even less once you factor in DA. The cam has to be very specific to work with this, just as you would any low compression N/A engine. At higher altitudes there is less air density and thus your engine generates less cylinder pressure. Basically you are going to lose the same amount of power, and create the same situation as removing 2 points of compression from the engine.

To really turn a lot of RPM at high altitude I've found that compression is king. You just cannot run the kind of camshaft that you need to run to turn 7600rpm without having some squeeze to go with it.
So are you suggesting to rev it higher? Or perhaps mill the heads to bump the compression?
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Old 03-24-2017, 12:48 PM   #16
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Both, Compression & RPM!
LLSR
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Old 03-26-2017, 05:41 PM   #17
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How com I read threads such as this and EVERYONE is recommending a super Victor, and this guy is running 347ci!?!? https://ls1tech.com/forums/nitrous-o...victor-jr.html
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Old 03-26-2017, 07:05 PM   #18
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If you are doing stroker in the not to distant future and
Nitrous the Super Vic will probably give you more over
The Jr 402+ then then the Jr will give you over the super
Now with 366" and nitrous 150 + especially 200.
Study SpeedTigger AKA Steve @ Cam Motion
403" little beast, and I would suggest LLSR for
7500+ RPM with high comp at altitude 12.5:1 minimum
As suggested by Martin.
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Old 03-27-2017, 12:41 PM   #19
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Hi, the Hendrick head you have chosen to fit LOVES compression.
I would reduce the C/C's AND this will raise the C.R.
I would use a FelPro 1041 HG.
The High Altitude LOVES large ports, large air flow.
The High Altitude LOVES larger Intake Duration, like 246/246 @ 116 C/L.

Trust this advice as none here (the posters) have raced to the top of Pikes Peak as have I.
Trust this advice as I have had many customers that have raced at 14K feet with good results, the same reports as I have stated.
Your base timing advance should be 6+ degrees greater that at Sea Level.
My Altitude Record, for engine operation, is 80K feet (Boeing Drone) fitted with my ECU-882C EMS. (Fueled by Hydrogen)

Lance
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