upgrading coils vs factory LS3 coils. any HP gains?
02-24-2018, 09:01 AM
#21
FormerVendor
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Santa Ana, CA. USA
Posts: 2,157
Likes: 0
Received 16 Likes
on
16 Posts
Coil HP Gain. Hi Mike, sure test a set, I will help with the calibration.
There are changes in the Dwell settings, Spark Advance, Spark Plug Gap when the LS-IGN-1A kit is fitted.
I too offer ALL who would purchase a "shelf" item form Pantera EFI, a FULL return of product cost if one chooses, no questions.
This is ALSO state law in CA>
The coil I speak of is the IGN-1A, the same one that Holley Lazar scribes.
The "510" = NO though my version is 10% more output with a cost of $35.00 to LS-1 tech members.
I just shipped Richard's order of 144 coils to New Zealand, funny.
MY family came here from Bavaria in 1781, LEGALLY.
MY grandfather engineered bridges in PA, they stand to this day !
MY grandfather INVENTED his own engine, under US Patent circa 1930.
MY grandfather had a patent claim of pressure oiling internal to the engine.
YES Mike, call me at the shop, speak "tech", I will share some knowledge.
I will give you a call if I had your number ?
I also state the GM LS coils, all five different models, ARE 10 AMP coils with the IGN-1A/Holley Smart coil of 28 AMPS energy storage.
The Turns Ratios are similar.
Lance
There are changes in the Dwell settings, Spark Advance, Spark Plug Gap when the LS-IGN-1A kit is fitted.
I too offer ALL who would purchase a "shelf" item form Pantera EFI, a FULL return of product cost if one chooses, no questions.
This is ALSO state law in CA>
The coil I speak of is the IGN-1A, the same one that Holley Lazar scribes.
The "510" = NO though my version is 10% more output with a cost of $35.00 to LS-1 tech members.
I just shipped Richard's order of 144 coils to New Zealand, funny.
MY family came here from Bavaria in 1781, LEGALLY.
MY grandfather engineered bridges in PA, they stand to this day !
MY grandfather INVENTED his own engine, under US Patent circa 1930.
MY grandfather had a patent claim of pressure oiling internal to the engine.
YES Mike, call me at the shop, speak "tech", I will share some knowledge.
I will give you a call if I had your number ?
I also state the GM LS coils, all five different models, ARE 10 AMP coils with the IGN-1A/Holley Smart coil of 28 AMPS energy storage.
The Turns Ratios are similar.
Lance
02-24-2018, 02:40 PM
#22
Hi Mike, sure test a set, I will help with the calibration.
There are changes in the Dwell settings, Spark Advance, Spark Plug Gap when the LS-IGN-1A kit is fitted.
I too offer ALL who would purchase a "shelf" item form Pantera EFI, a FULL return of product cost if one chooses, no questions.
This is ALSO state law in CA>
The coil I speak of is the IGN-1A, the same one that Holley Lazar scribes.
The "510" = NO though my version is 10% more output with a cost of $35.00 to LS-1 tech members.
I just shipped Richard's order of 144 coils to New Zealand, funny.
MY family came here from Bavaria in 1781, LEGALLY.
MY grandfather engineered bridges in PA, they stand to this day !
MY grandfather INVENTED his own engine, under US Patent circa 1930.
MY grandfather had a patent claim of pressure oiling internal to the engine.
YES Mike, call me at the shop, speak "tech", I will share some knowledge.
I will give you a call if I had your number ?
I also state the GM LS coils, all five different models, ARE 10 AMP coils with the IGN-1A/Holley Smart coil of 28 AMPS energy storage.
The Turns Ratios are similar.
Lance
There are changes in the Dwell settings, Spark Advance, Spark Plug Gap when the LS-IGN-1A kit is fitted.
I too offer ALL who would purchase a "shelf" item form Pantera EFI, a FULL return of product cost if one chooses, no questions.
This is ALSO state law in CA>
The coil I speak of is the IGN-1A, the same one that Holley Lazar scribes.
The "510" = NO though my version is 10% more output with a cost of $35.00 to LS-1 tech members.
I just shipped Richard's order of 144 coils to New Zealand, funny.
MY family came here from Bavaria in 1781, LEGALLY.
MY grandfather engineered bridges in PA, they stand to this day !
MY grandfather INVENTED his own engine, under US Patent circa 1930.
MY grandfather had a patent claim of pressure oiling internal to the engine.
YES Mike, call me at the shop, speak "tech", I will share some knowledge.
I will give you a call if I had your number ?
I also state the GM LS coils, all five different models, ARE 10 AMP coils with the IGN-1A/Holley Smart coil of 28 AMPS energy storage.
The Turns Ratios are similar.
Lance
02-25-2018, 04:02 PM
#23
Hi ALL, the Holley Smart coil (IGN-1A) is good for about 18 HP on a 500 HP engine. (bench)
I DO NOT "HIP" SHOOT as did the above posters.
My DATA is PROVEN by dyno reports, EMPIRICAL, NOT GUESSES by THOSE WHO have NEVER done a BACK/BACK test.
There are users here at LS-1 Tech of my LS-IGN-1A kit.
THEIR reports are as follows :
Better throttle response
Less Spark Advance required
Better Fuel mileage
More power "felt" through engine operational range.
More power recorded when tested on a rolling road dyno.
So I ask : Would you TRUST a person who has fitted the Holley Smart coil/IGN-1A OR a person who has NOT ?
Lance
I DO NOT "HIP" SHOOT as did the above posters.
My DATA is PROVEN by dyno reports, EMPIRICAL, NOT GUESSES by THOSE WHO have NEVER done a BACK/BACK test.
There are users here at LS-1 Tech of my LS-IGN-1A kit.
THEIR reports are as follows :
Better throttle response
Less Spark Advance required
Better Fuel mileage
More power "felt" through engine operational range.
More power recorded when tested on a rolling road dyno.
So I ask : Would you TRUST a person who has fitted the Holley Smart coil/IGN-1A OR a person who has NOT ?
Lance
That's about a 3% horsepower gain. Nothing you'll feel in the seat if your pants nor really yield you anything to brag about at the track. Was your testing done scientifically? Or did you take off 100K miles coils and replaced them with brand new Holley coils and claim a gain? That makes a difference too.
Unless you compare parts equally, its not scientific.
02-26-2018, 11:31 AM
#25
FormerVendor
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Santa Ana, CA. USA
Posts: 2,157
Likes: 0
Received 16 Likes
on
16 Posts
Federal Performance = IGN-1A Dealer Hi Canuk, my wife's parents were from BC, (White Rock) his father started the Canadian National RR>
I state this because you "canadians" are one of my favorite customers.
One "proof" method would be to ASK your friend Seth, Federal Performance, as he is a dealer for the IGN-1A coil, my customer.
AS for "bedazzeled" I only report what I am told, with a "seat of pants" difference after the IGN-1A coils were installed.
I AGREE that the exchanged coils were not New/New THOUGH coils do not wear out AND still operate, sure some fail in use. (complete engine miss-fire)
The first LS-1 tech member (IGN-1A kit user) was a Race Car Driver Coach in FL.
The test was done on his normally used Rolling Road Dyno, a dyno he uses often for instruction.
My experience has shown that when a person is pleased, you can here this in his voice.
The IGN-1A coil IS the #1 performance ignition coil on the planet, the most often sold coil for a high performance engine.
Lance
I state this because you "canadians" are one of my favorite customers.
One "proof" method would be to ASK your friend Seth, Federal Performance, as he is a dealer for the IGN-1A coil, my customer.
AS for "bedazzeled" I only report what I am told, with a "seat of pants" difference after the IGN-1A coils were installed.
I AGREE that the exchanged coils were not New/New THOUGH coils do not wear out AND still operate, sure some fail in use. (complete engine miss-fire)
The first LS-1 tech member (IGN-1A kit user) was a Race Car Driver Coach in FL.
The test was done on his normally used Rolling Road Dyno, a dyno he uses often for instruction.
My experience has shown that when a person is pleased, you can here this in his voice.
The IGN-1A coil IS the #1 performance ignition coil on the planet, the most often sold coil for a high performance engine.
Lance
02-26-2018, 11:40 AM
#26
TECH Apprentice
Hi Canuk, my wife's parents were from BC, (White Rock) his father started the Canadian National RR>
I state this because you "canadians" are one of my favorite customers.
One "proof" method would be to ASK your friend Seth, Federal Performance, as he is a dealer for the IGN-1A coil, my customer.
AS for "bedazzeled" I only report what I am told, with a "seat of pants" difference after the IGN-1A coils were installed.
I AGREE that the exchanged coils were not New/New THOUGH coils do not wear out AND still operate, sure some fail in use. (complete engine miss-fire)
The first LS-1 tech member (IGN-1A kit user) was a Race Car Driver Coach in FL.
The test was done on his normally used Rolling Road Dyno, a dyno he uses often for instruction.
My experience has shown that when a person is pleased, you can here this in his voice.
The IGN-1A coil IS the #1 performance ignition coil on the planet, the most often sold coil for a high performance engine.
Lance
I state this because you "canadians" are one of my favorite customers.
One "proof" method would be to ASK your friend Seth, Federal Performance, as he is a dealer for the IGN-1A coil, my customer.
AS for "bedazzeled" I only report what I am told, with a "seat of pants" difference after the IGN-1A coils were installed.
I AGREE that the exchanged coils were not New/New THOUGH coils do not wear out AND still operate, sure some fail in use. (complete engine miss-fire)
The first LS-1 tech member (IGN-1A kit user) was a Race Car Driver Coach in FL.
The test was done on his normally used Rolling Road Dyno, a dyno he uses often for instruction.
My experience has shown that when a person is pleased, you can here this in his voice.
The IGN-1A coil IS the #1 performance ignition coil on the planet, the most often sold coil for a high performance engine.
Lance
As for Seth, he is the smartest car guy I know but isn't your customer any longer. He moved to California and is now engineering stuff for Tesla !!!
02-27-2018, 02:02 PM
#28
TECH Addict
Its all about proportions isn't it? a 3-4% gain at 500 hp vs. 3-4% at 1000 HP... 18 is vs 36ish HP gain.. and at the big end your chasing a very tiny amount of time..
In my example earlier on the midget, I was just pointing out that your compression and fuel load, determines how much spark you really need, the 1.8 ran fine producing a 125 hp with points and coil in a engine with < 10:1 compression stock, as the pressure and density of the charge went up, so did the current/voltage demand for the ignition. With boost and other upgrades you'd measure/feel a benefit.. On time slips, or a dyno, in a street car at say 300 to 400 hp it would likely be subtle.. And its all about power delivery, I had a 69 911, only made about 200 hp on a cool day.. But the car was only like 2100 lbs. It "felt" fast, It was not in terms of drag racing.. But light nimble noisy and fun..
Fun stuff..
A standard ignition will bite the heck out of you, a top fuel dragster digital magneto system will kill you.. If I'm doing the math right,,
From http://www.motortrend.com/news/top-fuel-numbers/
"The twin MSD magnetos produce 88 amps. " <- That should be at around 12KV ?
Most of our engines can't even turn the blower... LOL
In my example earlier on the midget, I was just pointing out that your compression and fuel load, determines how much spark you really need, the 1.8 ran fine producing a 125 hp with points and coil in a engine with < 10:1 compression stock, as the pressure and density of the charge went up, so did the current/voltage demand for the ignition. With boost and other upgrades you'd measure/feel a benefit.. On time slips, or a dyno, in a street car at say 300 to 400 hp it would likely be subtle.. And its all about power delivery, I had a 69 911, only made about 200 hp on a cool day.. But the car was only like 2100 lbs. It "felt" fast, It was not in terms of drag racing.. But light nimble noisy and fun..
Fun stuff..
A standard ignition will bite the heck out of you, a top fuel dragster digital magneto system will kill you.. If I'm doing the math right,,From http://www.motortrend.com/news/top-fuel-numbers/
"The twin MSD magnetos produce 88 amps. " <- That should be at around 12KV ?
Most of our engines can't even turn the blower... LOL
02-27-2018, 07:09 PM
#29
Moderator
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: My own internal universe
Posts: 10,446
Received 1,835 Likes
on
1,145 Posts
Originally Posted by spanks13
Funny..there are two camps of people.
Those that would kill for 18 hp, and those that say it is a small gain.
Those that would kill for 18 hp, and those that say it is a small gain.
02-27-2018, 07:29 PM
#30
02-28-2018, 06:55 PM
#32
ModSquad
iTrader: (6)
The following users liked this post:
tcgrmt (10-07-2020)
02-28-2018, 07:07 PM
#33
9 Second Club
I wouldnt say most are that stunning thereafter as trap speeds are just ok...but as we all know if it's from a standing start, the launch is ever so important.
A few months ago I was at a drag strip over in England and there were a few Teslas, I think one was running in the 10's which is very impressive for a totally standard ( and heavy ) road car on proper road tyres.
Mind you...some of them needed to recharge of a dirty stinking diesel generator....lol Yes...they'll save the planet. lots.
03-01-2018, 12:17 AM
#35
).If I can pick up 20 hp to the wheels for a few bucks with no compromise to drivability or durability/reliability.....the f^ck yeah, I'm interested as hell! And if you can say that you're not, then TAKE OFF your freakin' 'cold air intake'!!I!
KW
03-01-2018, 10:41 AM
#36
FormerVendor
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Santa Ana, CA. USA
Posts: 2,157
Likes: 0
Received 16 Likes
on
16 Posts
Musk Rare Earth Magnet Use. Hi Steve, you are correct. Musk motor designers used the SAME Style of Rare Earth Magnets for their Tesla Car motor and Mars Rover now on its way to the Red Planet.
The Rare Earth Magnet is placed in the "steel" of the stater/rotor with the same fashion used in the Steel Frame of the IGN-1A coil.
The effect of a stronger magnetic field allows for biasing of coil speed AND greater winding output. There is also a major speed increase due to the fact that the coil is much smaller in size when Rare Earth Magnets are placed in coil steel.
A Good guess Steve, you must have great knowledge about Motor Design !
Soon the batteries our group supplied for the Mars Rover will be "kicking-up" the Martin Soil, "burnouts" on another planet.
They are 3.75 Volts EACH, the size of a machinist manual, will not explode, can be discharged/charger fast, and have little memory with a 10,000 cycle test showing no loss.
Lance, It's GREAT to live in L.A.
The Rare Earth Magnet is placed in the "steel" of the stater/rotor with the same fashion used in the Steel Frame of the IGN-1A coil.
The effect of a stronger magnetic field allows for biasing of coil speed AND greater winding output. There is also a major speed increase due to the fact that the coil is much smaller in size when Rare Earth Magnets are placed in coil steel.
A Good guess Steve, you must have great knowledge about Motor Design !
Soon the batteries our group supplied for the Mars Rover will be "kicking-up" the Martin Soil, "burnouts" on another planet.
They are 3.75 Volts EACH, the size of a machinist manual, will not explode, can be discharged/charger fast, and have little memory with a 10,000 cycle test showing no loss.
Lance, It's GREAT to live in L.A.
Last edited by pantera_efi; 03-01-2018 at 10:50 AM.
03-03-2018, 12:15 PM
#38
Yeah. But we're talking 475 vs 495 hp to the wheels (face it, we're really talking about 20hp ).
If I can pick up 20 hp to the wheels for a few bucks with no compromise to drivability or durability/reliability.....the f^ck yeah, I'm interested as hell! And if you can say that you're not, then TAKE OFF your freakin' 'cold air intake'!!I!
KW
).If I can pick up 20 hp to the wheels for a few bucks with no compromise to drivability or durability/reliability.....the f^ck yeah, I'm interested as hell! And if you can say that you're not, then TAKE OFF your freakin' 'cold air intake'!!I!
KW
I would like to see proof of 20 RWHP gains (470 to 490) just by replacing coils. Face it it’s spark not adding air or fuel. Your spark plug would have a bigger effect.
03-04-2018, 01:14 PM
#39
FormerVendor
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Santa Ana, CA. USA
Posts: 2,157
Likes: 0
Received 16 Likes
on
16 Posts
IGN-1A coil report 10-2016 Hi ALL, first for Steve, your good taste "joke" was the TRUTH.
Sure I knew this but found it more interesting when Tesla EV's were referenced.
My FIRST report from a LS-1 Tech Member "miami993C297" (Christian) was a 18HP Road Dyno gain with the IGN-1A coil kit. (10-2016)
He stated a 2* LOWER timing requirement was best for max power.
He is a Driver Instructor for top level teams.
He IS the type of person who could produce a report ?
He also made the statements, to me, about better throttle response/better seat acceleration.
I will PM him.
Lance
Sure I knew this but found it more interesting when Tesla EV's were referenced.
My FIRST report from a LS-1 Tech Member "miami993C297" (Christian) was a 18HP Road Dyno gain with the IGN-1A coil kit. (10-2016)
He stated a 2* LOWER timing requirement was best for max power.
He is a Driver Instructor for top level teams.
He IS the type of person who could produce a report ?
He also made the statements, to me, about better throttle response/better seat acceleration.
I will PM him.
Lance
03-04-2018, 03:29 PM
#40
10 Second Club
Hi ALL, first for Steve, your good taste "joke" was the TRUTH.
Sure I knew this but found it more interesting when Tesla EV's were referenced.
My FIRST report from a LS-1 Tech Member "miami993C297" (Christian) was a 18HP Road Dyno gain with the IGN-1A coil kit. (10-2016)
He stated a 2* LOWER timing requirement was best for max power.
He is a Driver Instructor for top level teams.
He IS the type of person who could produce a report ?
He also made the statements, to me, about better throttle response/better seat acceleration.
I will PM him.
Lance
Sure I knew this but found it more interesting when Tesla EV's were referenced.
My FIRST report from a LS-1 Tech Member "miami993C297" (Christian) was a 18HP Road Dyno gain with the IGN-1A coil kit. (10-2016)
He stated a 2* LOWER timing requirement was best for max power.
He is a Driver Instructor for top level teams.
He IS the type of person who could produce a report ?
He also made the statements, to me, about better throttle response/better seat acceleration.
I will PM him.
Lance