ls2 based 445 ???
03-14-2016, 09:28 PM
#1
ls2 based 445 ??? I was looking at D9HP's 454 build and didn't want to take up anymore of
his thread.
So I will ask here, KCS said something like a very good street engine could
possibly make 1.5 HP per 1 cubic inch.
What is the opinion of this build of mine that is the works?
ERL super deck 1
4.155 bore X 4.100 stroke balanced with rods and pistons however they do it
WCCH ls7 stage 2 with titanium intake valves
CHE ls7 rockers, comp cam link low travel lifters whatever there called
ATI dampner
forged crank, rods, pistons, Crower crank and rods, JE pistons Flat top w/valve
reliefs
FAST 102/102
comp cam 231 246 @50
651 649
113.0 lobe sep
do not have head gaskets yet
have stock ls7 injectors
any tips or suggestions welcome
already have cam so i will see what it does
will be in a 3300# vehicle with T56 not sure on gears yet
his thread.
So I will ask here, KCS said something like a very good street engine could
possibly make 1.5 HP per 1 cubic inch.
What is the opinion of this build of mine that is the works?
ERL super deck 1
4.155 bore X 4.100 stroke balanced with rods and pistons however they do it
WCCH ls7 stage 2 with titanium intake valves
CHE ls7 rockers, comp cam link low travel lifters whatever there called
ATI dampner
forged crank, rods, pistons, Crower crank and rods, JE pistons Flat top w/valve
reliefs
FAST 102/102
comp cam 231 246 @50
651 649
113.0 lobe sep
do not have head gaskets yet
have stock ls7 injectors
any tips or suggestions welcome
already have cam so i will see what it does
will be in a 3300# vehicle with T56 not sure on gears yet
03-15-2016, 09:39 AM
#2
1.5hp/ci for a 445ci engine would be about 668whp. That's not impossible, but would take some serious effort and some trial and error.
You've got a good list of parts, but I think the cam is a little too small and I think the FAST would need to be ported. What you have so far is definetly a good list and I would expect it to still make close to 600whp.
You've got a good list of parts, but I think the cam is a little too small and I think the FAST would need to be ported. What you have so far is definetly a good list and I would expect it to still make close to 600whp.
03-15-2016, 12:56 PM
#3
Thanks for looking at it and giving your thoughts, Richard at WCCH chose the cam for me,
and I told him I was not looking for every bit of power I could get, was mainly looking for
reliability and not to hard on parts and just overall a good feeling engine to get me there.
I had no idea of what kind of power it would make so when I saw the 1.5 per 1 that got
my curosity stirred up. The engine had to move to the back of the stove right now, but
I'm not turning the stove off, just have to clean the stove up before I can cook again.
and I told him I was not looking for every bit of power I could get, was mainly looking for
reliability and not to hard on parts and just overall a good feeling engine to get me there.
I had no idea of what kind of power it would make so when I saw the 1.5 per 1 that got
my curosity stirred up. The engine had to move to the back of the stove right now, but
I'm not turning the stove off, just have to clean the stove up before I can cook again.
03-15-2016, 04:46 PM
#4
1.5hp/ci for a 445ci engine would be about 668whp. That's not impossible, but would take some serious effort and some trial and error.
You've got a good list of parts, but I think the cam is a little too small and I think the FAST would need to be ported. What you have so far is definetly a good list and I would expect it to still make close to 600whp.
You've got a good list of parts, but I think the cam is a little too small and I think the FAST would need to be ported. What you have so far is definetly a good list and I would expect it to still make close to 600whp.
03-15-2016, 10:24 PM
#6
to achieve 1.5 HP per 1 cubic inch with a good engine combo, and
i have never heard that before so I was curious if my combo sounded like
it could reach that possibility. This will just be a grocery getter, I have always
liked the way the old Big Blocks felt to drive, the new engines are without a
doubt fast runners, but don't have that old big block feel to them, so I thought
I would take a stab at putting one together and getting that old feeling again,
and not having to pull the covers off to tighten em up every other weekend and
not having to babysit on cold morning startups.
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03-17-2016, 08:39 AM
#8
When he quoted my "1.5hp/ci" figure from another thread, I had said at the wheels. At the crank, you can see higher since you're not dealing with drivetrain losses, but rarely does anyone use an engine dyno. It's usually just dedicated race programs that make use of an engine dyno.
03-17-2016, 08:49 AM
#9
Not really looking for a number, I read in another thread that it's possible
to achieve 1.5 HP per 1 cubic inch with a good engine combo, and
i have never heard that before so I was curious if my combo sounded like
it could reach that possibility. This will just be a grocery getter, I have always
liked the way the old Big Blocks felt to drive, the new engines are without a
doubt fast runners, but don't have that old big block feel to them, so I thought
I would take a stab at putting one together and getting that old feeling again,
and not having to pull the covers off to tighten em up every other weekend and
not having to babysit on cold morning startups.
to achieve 1.5 HP per 1 cubic inch with a good engine combo, and
i have never heard that before so I was curious if my combo sounded like
it could reach that possibility. This will just be a grocery getter, I have always
liked the way the old Big Blocks felt to drive, the new engines are without a
doubt fast runners, but don't have that old big block feel to them, so I thought
I would take a stab at putting one together and getting that old feeling again,
and not having to pull the covers off to tighten em up every other weekend and
not having to babysit on cold morning startups.
I know of a 5.3L engine (3.8" bore x 3.622" stroke) that makes 500whp. The thing is wicked, but very expensive and has to spin almost 8k RPM to make that power. Not something you would want your wife or grandma to drive.
On the other hand, a 408ci engine making 500whp is a dime a dozen. You can slap a bunch of mail order parts together to make that kind of power on a 408, and then go drive it to work everyday.
03-17-2016, 10:33 PM
#10
Thanks for taking the time to respond KCS. Thats the reason I went with a few more cubic
inches, what you said about larger engines being more docile on the street, and hopefully this one will have that old big block power we all used to loved to cruise around in.
inches, what you said about larger engines being more docile on the street, and hopefully this one will have that old big block power we all used to loved to cruise around in.
11-03-2019, 10:42 AM
#12
You must have been on the mobil site, on the mobil site if you keep scrolling down it has related threads that could be years old, and it is easy to respond to the wrong thread.
No big deal. Go back and look for that thread you was looking at, and ask your question again. No Chevelle in this thread, just an old S10.
Well I looked at the desk top version and it does the same thing if you scroll down, so its not just a mobil thing. Oh well.
Anyways its easy to respond to an old thread. Live on.
No big deal. Go back and look for that thread you was looking at, and ask your question again. No Chevelle in this thread, just an old S10.
Well I looked at the desk top version and it does the same thing if you scroll down, so its not just a mobil thing. Oh well.
Anyways its easy to respond to an old thread. Live on.
Last edited by slogo; 11-03-2019 at 12:19 PM.
11-03-2019, 01:36 PM
#13
A really well sorted engine on the chassis dyno makes about 1.4x cid in HP and about 1.25x cid in TQ (the rectangle port higher RPM stuff is less in TQ and more in HP).
You'll need a lot more cam. And probably a different intake altogether. Along with 12.5:1 CR to hit 660+rwhp (and 1.5x cid).
But using 1.4/1.25... you end up with 625rwhp and 555rwtq. That's a strong motor and doable with the FAST 102 and a not an out-of-control cam in a 445 as long as you have windage under control.
And lastly, those LS7 injectors are going to be maxed out around there. I think 630 is the most you can get with them pretty much at 100% DC.
You'll need a lot more cam. And probably a different intake altogether. Along with 12.5:1 CR to hit 660+rwhp (and 1.5x cid).
But using 1.4/1.25... you end up with 625rwhp and 555rwtq. That's a strong motor and doable with the FAST 102 and a not an out-of-control cam in a 445 as long as you have windage under control.
And lastly, those LS7 injectors are going to be maxed out around there. I think 630 is the most you can get with them pretty much at 100% DC.
11-03-2019, 06:35 PM
#14
I read this and realized how long it's been, still not using this engine. Of course there is a story and here it is. Life happens, Daughter is out of my wallet now, finished her 4 years of College,Married and into her career. So S10 build now, had been gathering parts here and there as us poor boys do, was going to put it in my ole 82 S10, but I found another S10 on craigslist, real clean for its age
(1985) Perfect dash clean interior, original paint, I felt fortunate to find such a clean S10. when I finally got it in the Garage to start the swap it took 15 months to get it running, as usual all
kinds of hurdles, plans were to get it running with this LS1 I got for a good deal, get all the bugs worked out, get the 8.8 cut and installed, and then finish this 445 and put it in after I got more familiar
with the tuning and whatever else came up. So now I'm driving the S10 more than Im working on it now (march 2019) snapped an axle on a 2nd gear shift, crap $225 wrecker bill, ok moser axles
in the Factory rear, maybe that will keep me going for a bit, a month later S10 got T boned, another wrecker bill, let it sit in the Garage for a few months without even opening the Garage door,
finally decided to do it again, so I removed all the aftermarket stuff, stripped the body down to absolutely nothing, cut it up with the sawzall, sold it across the scales. Found another
S10 on craigslist and here I go again, hopefully this one won't take as long, don't have to wait on the money to get whats next. So again plans are the same get it running with LS1 (sbe LS1 243's titan 2 cam, 1 7/8 long tubes very free flowing 3" exhaust T56 Trans.) get all the bugs worked out, get familiar with Holley Terminator, get 8.8 cut and mounted, then finish this 445 and install it.
(1985) Perfect dash clean interior, original paint, I felt fortunate to find such a clean S10. when I finally got it in the Garage to start the swap it took 15 months to get it running, as usual all
kinds of hurdles, plans were to get it running with this LS1 I got for a good deal, get all the bugs worked out, get the 8.8 cut and installed, and then finish this 445 and put it in after I got more familiar
with the tuning and whatever else came up. So now I'm driving the S10 more than Im working on it now (march 2019) snapped an axle on a 2nd gear shift, crap $225 wrecker bill, ok moser axles
in the Factory rear, maybe that will keep me going for a bit, a month later S10 got T boned, another wrecker bill, let it sit in the Garage for a few months without even opening the Garage door,
finally decided to do it again, so I removed all the aftermarket stuff, stripped the body down to absolutely nothing, cut it up with the sawzall, sold it across the scales. Found another
S10 on craigslist and here I go again, hopefully this one won't take as long, don't have to wait on the money to get whats next. So again plans are the same get it running with LS1 (sbe LS1 243's titan 2 cam, 1 7/8 long tubes very free flowing 3" exhaust T56 Trans.) get all the bugs worked out, get familiar with Holley Terminator, get 8.8 cut and mounted, then finish this 445 and install it.
11-03-2019, 06:42 PM
#15
A really well sorted engine on the chassis dyno makes about 1.4x cid in HP and about 1.25x cid in TQ (the rectangle port higher RPM stuff is less in TQ and more in HP).
You'll need a lot more cam. And probably a different intake altogether. Along with 12.5:1 CR to hit 660+rwhp (and 1.5x cid).
But using 1.4/1.25... you end up with 625rwhp and 555rwtq. That's a strong motor and doable with the FAST 102 and a not an out-of-control cam in a 445 as long as you have windage under control.
And lastly, those LS7 injectors are going to be maxed out around there. I think 630 is the most you can get with them pretty much at 100% DC.
You'll need a lot more cam. And probably a different intake altogether. Along with 12.5:1 CR to hit 660+rwhp (and 1.5x cid).
But using 1.4/1.25... you end up with 625rwhp and 555rwtq. That's a strong motor and doable with the FAST 102 and a not an out-of-control cam in a 445 as long as you have windage under control.
And lastly, those LS7 injectors are going to be maxed out around there. I think 630 is the most you can get with them pretty much at 100% DC.
Ill have to do some reading about the Windage, it has Holley pan and I think factory LS1 windage tray.
When it gets closer for that 445 to be running Ill look into getting different Injectors, still have some time to go before I get to that point. Thanks for the suggestion.
11-03-2019, 06:45 PM
#16
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Originally Posted by slogo
I read this and realized how long it's been, still not using this engine. Of course there is a story and here it is. Life happens, Daughter is out of my wallet now, finished her 4 years of College,Married and into her career. So S10 build now, had been gathering parts here and there as us poor boys do, was going to put it in my ole 82 S10, but I found another S10 on craigslist, real clean for its age
(1985) Perfect dash clean interior, original paint, I felt fortunate to find such a clean S10. when I finally got it in the Garage to start the swap it took 15 months to get it running, as usual all
kinds of hurdles, plans were to get it running with this LS1 I got for a good deal, get all the bugs worked out, get the 8.8 cut and installed, and then finish this 445 and put it in after I got more familiar
with the tuning and whatever else came up. So now I'm driving the S10 more than Im working on it now (march 2019) snapped an axle on a 2nd gear shift, crap $225 wrecker bill, ok moser axles
in the Factory rear, maybe that will keep me going for a bit, a month later S10 got T boned, another wrecker bill, let it sit in the Garage for a few months without even opening the Garage door,
finally decided to do it again, so I removed all the aftermarket stuff, stripped the body down to absolutely nothing, cut it up with the sawzall, sold it across the scales. Found another
S10 on craigslist and here I go again, hopefully this one won't take as long, don't have to wait on the money to get whats next. So again plans are the same get it running with LS1 (sbe LS1 243's titan 2 cam, 1 7/8 long tubes very free flowing 3" exhaust T56 Trans.) get all the bugs worked out, get familiar with Holley Terminator, get 8.8 cut and mounted, then finish this 445 and install it.
(1985) Perfect dash clean interior, original paint, I felt fortunate to find such a clean S10. when I finally got it in the Garage to start the swap it took 15 months to get it running, as usual all
kinds of hurdles, plans were to get it running with this LS1 I got for a good deal, get all the bugs worked out, get the 8.8 cut and installed, and then finish this 445 and put it in after I got more familiar
with the tuning and whatever else came up. So now I'm driving the S10 more than Im working on it now (march 2019) snapped an axle on a 2nd gear shift, crap $225 wrecker bill, ok moser axles
in the Factory rear, maybe that will keep me going for a bit, a month later S10 got T boned, another wrecker bill, let it sit in the Garage for a few months without even opening the Garage door,
finally decided to do it again, so I removed all the aftermarket stuff, stripped the body down to absolutely nothing, cut it up with the sawzall, sold it across the scales. Found another
S10 on craigslist and here I go again, hopefully this one won't take as long, don't have to wait on the money to get whats next. So again plans are the same get it running with LS1 (sbe LS1 243's titan 2 cam, 1 7/8 long tubes very free flowing 3" exhaust T56 Trans.) get all the bugs worked out, get familiar with Holley Terminator, get 8.8 cut and mounted, then finish this 445 and install it.
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Che70velle (11-03-2019)
11-03-2019, 07:09 PM
#17
11-03-2019, 08:30 PM
#18
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (7)
No kidding on the three...I have one that's a sophomore in college. The struggle is real...keep up the fight though, I'm thinking about an S-10 for my next project. Can't wait to see yours on the road.
11-04-2019, 09:09 AM
#19
Damn, i hear that it goes fast. I have a 529r plan for my 3yr old son right now. Only 10k in it, but im trying put at least 3500 in it per year minimum. I truly hope that ll be enough to get him up n running in College. He has to do his part aswell. Any other advice fellas?
Sorry for thread hi jack. I get nervous when the college talk starts up...
Sorry for thread hi jack. I get nervous when the college talk starts up...
11-12-2019, 01:38 PM
#20
TECH Addict
i have a hpr 468 that put down 638 for the previous owner on 91 california gas. same heads as you, 12:1 cr, but my cam is 20°+ bigger @ 050, and i have a mamo msd intake which is supposedly worth some power over a fast. i drive mine as primary transportation and its been fine.
good luck, looks a nice setup.
good luck, looks a nice setup.