07NBSChevy

iTrader: (1)

OK guys, I am finally about to pull out my ol' 454 (468) out of my 31 Ford Custom Hotrod and do an LS Swap, current engine makes around 600 horse at the crank. I want to do something a little different that you don't see everyday. So I picked up a new 430 Horse LS3 crate motor for a good deal. It will be connected to a M22 RockCrusher 4-Speed, I am up in the air about doing a 6-Speed swap or a 4L80E swap. The Vehicle weighs around 2,800 lbs or less, cant remember what it weighed in at. I have a $10,000 budget to get the motor built and put in. It will be a cruiser/custom rod that will be at car shows and see the drag strip every now and them, and see maybe 2,500 miles a year. I will be using a DBW stand alone harness, No nitrous or boost for now. I will be using a 50/50 Mix of 91 and 100 Octane.

I will be using ARP Mains, Rod Bolts, and Head Studs. Honing after as well.
I was thinking of going with the new TSP LS3 Stage 4 235/248 .649/.615 111LSA, with TSP-PRC's LS3 260cc Cylinder heads and mill them accordingly for 11:1 Compression. Need to do some measuring to figure out some numbers, but is 0.035" Quench still ideal for this setup?

Does anyone have any input on intake/throttle body and rocker arms.
Will the stock lifters that came with the engine be good or should I change them out as well?
I was thinking maybe a FAST LSXR 102 with Nick Williams 102 DBW TB?

NAVYBLUE210

For pretty much the same money I would get the AFR LS3 Heads from
Summit, also Aftermarket rockers are highly recommended over .630" lift,
8* exhaust split would be plenty IMO along with wider LSA for easier
Tuning and cruising (less overlap), depending on RPM & Stroke perhaps
The mid-length runners for the FAST.
Food for thought and just my .02.
Good Luck

Tuskyz28

[QUOTE=Tuskyz28;19648090]Do you have a specific horsepower goal?

On a stock cube motor a aftermarket LS3 heads will net you very little horsepower. Its in a article.... the aftermarket heads only made 10 horses over the factory castings.

You can 575 at crank on the stock heads amd intake with the correct cam. I advise you to call Pat G....

07NBSChevy

iTrader: (1)

Tusky, so you think the Stock heads, ported, will do well with a large cam? I was told aftermarket heads can gain 15-25 more Hp over stock heads.

Pat G already Spec'd a cam for me already. I don't have the paperwork with me since I am currently out of town but I think it was around a 238/246 with around .630 lift on a 111 LSA.

The main reason I liked the TSP Heads/Cam is I saw they installed it on the exact same motor, a LS3 430HP crate engine, and it made 577 Hp/506 Tq and peaked at 6,600 RPM and pulled hard from 4,500. The cam itself made a 93 Hp gain at the crank and they said is very streetable. The current cam in my 468 is a little on the ridiculous side as well, it does not "Cruise" very well with the Manual trans, it will Jerk back and forth at anything under 1,600-1,800 rpm so I kinda got used to that.

I will look into other options as well, I have had AFR CNC'd heads in the past and they do awesome port work.

My plan, which will probably change once I get a bunch of input from you guys, is:

- A good Set of CNC Ported LS3 Heads, so far TSP-PRC Aftermarket 6-Bolt 260cc
- A good cam to match the heads, so far the new TSP Stage 4 LS3 235/248 .649/.615 111 LSA.
- Harland Sharp 1.7 Ratio LS3 Rockers, or Comps 1.7 Ratio LS3 Shaft Mount Rockers.
- PAC-1206X or 1207X kit with Titanium Retainers good for .700 lift and does not have a crazy high open load.
- Morel 5294 Link-Bar, 7,000+ RPM, Hydraulic Roller lifters
- Manton Series-4 3/8"x.120" Wall Pushrods
- FAST LSXR 102mm
- Nick Williams DBW 102mm TB
- 1-7/8" Custom Longtubes
- ARP Mains, Rod Bolts, and Head Studs
- Melling 10295 Oil Pump
- Katech C5R timing chain and LS2 Damper, or Cloyes LS3-4X Race Billet timing set with Extreme Duty C5R Chain
- 11.5:1 Static Compression, Quench 0.035", with a 50/50 Mix of Quality 91 and 100 Octane. E85 could be an option as well, I would like to stay away from race fuels such as VP/Sunoco due to cost.
- Max of 6,800 to 7,000 RPM.
- Vehicle will be driven no more than a total of 2,500 miles or so a year, will see the drag strip in "Custom Hotrod" class
- 2,600-2,800 Vehicle Weight
- 4.11 Gearing

Still thinking about swapping a 4L80E in with a 4000-4200 Stall, a 6-Speed T56 Super Magnum (Which I have sitting in my garage), or just staying with the Classic M22 4-Speed.

If there is anything you guys think I should change just let me know, obviously heads and cam will be very negotiable.

Darth_V8r

iTrader: (4)

Study build list!

joyridin'

iTrader: (1)

Personally, for what you are doing, it looks like total overkill. My car weighs 2100 lbs and I have a bone stock LS3 crate engine with a BTR stage 4 cam, headers, and aftermarket air filter. The last dyno I had put the engine at about 575 hp. With 3.70 gears and a T56, the car will smoke the tires all day and night. I do not race it, so 1/4 mile times are not important, but mathematically, it should run a mid 10 second quarter if you could ever get it to hook.

Do what you want, but if you have a new engine, throw in a cam, headers, intake and let it rip. With the right tune, it will sound bad as hell and run great.

07NBSChevy

iTrader: (1)

I don't think it is overkill, the 468 had around 600 hp but wanted something different, I would rather not go down in power from what I originally had. I know I will be losing a few lbs of the front end from going with the LS. At the track I run 315 drag radials, so traction should not be an issue. I will be running it at the track with our "Custom Hotrod" Class every month or so. So I would like a decent amount of power. The whole point of this car build was overkill.

I will be racing against Steve Darnell, from "Vegas Rat Rods" TV series. He runs 800-900 hp Twin Turbo Cummins rat rods.

Darth, what do you mean by Study Build List?

joyridin, what car are you running thats 2100 lbs? is it the Shelby Roadster you have pictured? I used to have a Factory Five a few years back, its like a darn little fun go cart.

Darth_V8r

iTrader: (4)

that was a type StudLy was what I meant to type. Lots of good parts

joyridin'

iTrader: (1)

Do what you want. When you only have a HP difference of about 20 and you drop over 200 lbs., mathematically, your car will be faster on the 1/4.

2800 lbs/600 hp = 10.236 @ 147.25
2600 lbs/570 hp = 10.158 @ 148.37 (I used 570 hp)

That would be with a stock LS3, cam, headers, and tune. Add an intake, maybe better heads, and you are probably pushing 600 right there.

RollingDumpster

You're going to be hard pressed to do all that motor work for $10k. I have a similar build with basically the same parts/same style you have listed (LS3 block, MMS 235 heads, YT rockers, Ported fast, etc etc) and $10k didn't get me halfway there. The machine work alone with the parts you want will be $1500 or so. I agree with the above post about keeping the LS3 stock and adding a cam to it and maybe cleaning up the exhaust side of the stock heads. $per HP is more in your favor that way.

64post

iTrader: (5)

What would be wrong with a SBE LS3? If you're thinking ARP studs and rod bolts everything will have to machined or disassembled and checked for sizing, it all adds up, save your budget.

Tuskyz28

Im going into work and just now viewing the thread again.... ill make solid post for you after work tonight.

07NBSChevy

iTrader: (1)

RollingDumpster, I am trying to figure out what $1,500 in Machine work is required, there would be very little machine work needed. Also, how would I exceed $10 grand unless I am missing something here. If 10 grand only got you half way then you must have around a 1,000+Hp engine. I can buy a complete NRE LSX 454 with 650 HP for $18,000 or their Twin Turbo 900 HP engine for $23,000? I can have the mains or rods honed for pretty much free. I am good friends with the machine shop next door to our shop and he said he would do it for around $100, so that is not a big deal. I do not have to use ARP rods and mains, just thought it would be a good idea to have done. I can keep the bottom end all stock, swap the oil pump and timing set and be done with that. I had no plans on porting the Fast 102 or the Nick Williams throttle body. I have already sold the intake manifold and throttle body off of it. I will be keeping all the fuel components. The motor is still on the truck for delivery and is scheduled for Monday next week, so cant do anything for a few days.

So what you guys are saying is
-Stock LS3 Bottom end.....$00.00
-Ported Stock heads....$750 from TSP
-A good sized Cam.....Average of $390 from TSP
-PAC-1206X or 1207X....$460 from TSP
-Morel Lifters......$800 from TSP
-FAST LSXR 102mm Intake Manifold.....$880 from TSP
-Nick Williams 102mm DBW Throttle Body......$630 from TSP
-Melling 10295 Oil Pump (I have a new one in my shop)....$00.00
-Cloyes Timing Set or Katech C5R Chain......Cloyes $290, Katech $170 from TSP
-Manton Pushrods....$180
-Harland Sharp Rockers or others......Harland Sharp $560 from TSP
-Head Gaskets......Average of $80 from TSP
-ARP Head Studs.......$450 from TSP
............Total for build above $5,500.........

With my list in my previous post with TSP Cam/Heads, I was at $7900 without headers, using Hardland Sharp rockers and Cloyes Timing Set, this included ARP Mains and Rods plus any and all machine work to hone or mill. So I was still under my budget by 20%. Shaft mounted Rockers would add another $1,200 to the bill, from either Comp or Jesel. I do understand aftermarket rockers may require taller valve covers or machining the head, that was added into my current total.

LLLosingit

iTrader: (4)

Probably not in your budget but the Hilborn Stack EFI would look sweet on that rod.
http://hilborninjection.com/product/...fuel-injector/

07NBSChevy

iTrader: (1)

That would definitely give it some nostalgia. I like it, but they are not cheap haha.

Tuskyz28

Before you spend any money at all... you need to have a horsepower goal in mind.
​​​No need to spend money on something for small gains.....
​​​​​
R​ichard Holdnerer said out h​​​​​​is own mouth that cnc ported/aftermarket LS3 heads is not worth the money on a stock bottom end Ls3 motor. He did a comparison awhile back.. the high dollar heads only made 10 horses over the factory castings. I have the link to the article if needed. Let me know.

A 234 or so duration cam will make 575 at the crank with the factory heads abd intake with a tune and long tube headers. Richard Holdnerer PROVED that as well on the dyno wheb he tested 3 different cams from Brian Tooley. I also have the link to that article if needed.

On the intake i personally would contact Rick Crawford for the hook up. His results on those intakes speak for themselves.

My point is dont beat your self up on your goal and dont waste money.

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

I would do a Low Lash Roller Cam setup with .700" lift at least and AFR 260s with a FAST 102 w/Med Runners.

Then spin the hell out of it.

07NBSChevy

iTrader: (1)

Tusky, I did say above that I would rather not go backwards on power. So 600+ Hp is my goal. Further down the road in a year or so I may end up going twin turbo or ProCharger. Thank you for the info.

Jake, I have been really eyeing those AFR 260cc heads, a few engine builders I spoke with said those are the heads to go with. I have heard good things and results from those.
Around what Cam would you recommend Jake?

Also, I have no problem keeping the bottom end stock and not going with ARP mains of rod bolts. I just thought it would be extra insurance. But if its not needed for my HP goals, then I wont mess with it.

Tuskyz28

600 Horses.... I'll personally go 416ci stroker.
​​​​​Lme built a LS3 headed 416ci motor and the motor made 620 plus with a poorly spec cam in my opinion..

joyridin'

iTrader: (1)

You can get one of those Speedmaster set-ups with a FAST EZ EFI for about $3300. There are a few people on another forum I visit that is running them and they have had no problems. If you have $10k, you probably have enough to put it on subtracting the FAST LSXR and Nick Williams throttle body.