What oil pressure should I expect on new engine?
06-19-2017, 09:36 PM
#21
Did you actually understand the purpose of that billet barbell? or did you just use it for reference?
What it helps to combat is exactly what you are saying also. And yes that can happen where you drop psi at rpm, its not the end of the world though. It cam be blamed on many things also that are not issues but normal operation.
What happens to oil as it heats up? And what makes oil heat up? And what does the shear force on the bearings under higher rpm do to oil?
Im not saying it always happens or is typical, but it does happen esp if you reach past the pumping capacity of the pump, overpower the bypass, or run out of oil volume in the pan.
The dry sump pumps have this issue as well. Katech has an upgrade to the pumps that keeps this issue to a min though.
What it helps to combat is exactly what you are saying also. And yes that can happen where you drop psi at rpm, its not the end of the world though. It cam be blamed on many things also that are not issues but normal operation.
What happens to oil as it heats up? And what makes oil heat up? And what does the shear force on the bearings under higher rpm do to oil?
Im not saying it always happens or is typical, but it does happen esp if you reach past the pumping capacity of the pump, overpower the bypass, or run out of oil volume in the pan.
The dry sump pumps have this issue as well. Katech has an upgrade to the pumps that keeps this issue to a min though.
06-19-2017, 10:17 PM
#23
Op: "My pressure was 45psi at 6000rpm, is that ok?"
Some guy: "I think GM Recommends 10psi/1000rpm, so you are in the correct range"
me: "cough, how can you say that he is in the correct range after quoting what you assumed GM recommends and its different?"
KCS: kingtal0n is wrong
pretty much that just happened, mod obviously harbors feelins for ol' talon
aww its so cute
06-19-2017, 10:42 PM
#24
TECH Senior Member
KCS, et al.... You tried, you won, loser keeps punching....
06-19-2017, 10:54 PM
#25
one more time:
Op: "My pressure was 45psi at 6000rpm, is that ok?"
Some guy: "I think GM Recommends 10psi/1000rpm, but 40-60 psi at rpm is also normal, so you are in the correct range"
me: "cough, how can you say that he is in the correct range after quoting what you assumed GM recommends and its different?"
KCS: 10psi/1000RPM is wrong, that's why.
pretty much that just happened, mod is obviously bored
Op: "My pressure was 45psi at 6000rpm, is that ok?"
Some guy: "I think GM Recommends 10psi/1000rpm, but 40-60 psi at rpm is also normal, so you are in the correct range"
me: "cough, how can you say that he is in the correct range after quoting what you assumed GM recommends and its different?"
KCS: 10psi/1000RPM is wrong, that's why.
pretty much that just happened, mod is obviously bored
I wish I could say I'm the bigger man and walk away but I'm up late, wide awake, with nothing to do lol.
06-19-2017, 10:57 PM
#26
Did you actually understand the purpose of that billet barbell? or did you just use it for reference?
What it helps to combat is exactly what you are saying also. And yes that can happen where you drop psi at rpm, its not the end of the world though. It cam be blamed on many things also that are not issues but normal operation.
What happens to oil as it heats up? And what makes oil heat up? And what does the shear force on the bearings under higher rpm do to oil?
Im not saying it always happens or is typical, but it does happen esp if you reach past the pumping capacity of the pump, overpower the bypass, or run out of oil volume in the pan.
The dry sump pumps have this issue as well. Katech has an upgrade to the pumps that keeps this issue to a min though.
What it helps to combat is exactly what you are saying also. And yes that can happen where you drop psi at rpm, its not the end of the world though. It cam be blamed on many things also that are not issues but normal operation.
What happens to oil as it heats up? And what makes oil heat up? And what does the shear force on the bearings under higher rpm do to oil?
Im not saying it always happens or is typical, but it does happen esp if you reach past the pumping capacity of the pump, overpower the bypass, or run out of oil volume in the pan.
The dry sump pumps have this issue as well. Katech has an upgrade to the pumps that keeps this issue to a min though.
1. I did not refer to the barbell in this thread at all. I referenced the 90psi of oil pressure in an engine under 9k rpm which the mod claimed was BS.
2. What happens to oil as it heats up! I love this question. Well, my good sir, it depends on what kind of oil we are discussing. First and foremost, I know you wanted the answer to be something like "viscosity drops" or "it thins out" or "it flows better" but that is just the beginning of a book of information regarding the chemistry of alkanes, refining process of crude oil and laboratory intervention with a myriad of components. Nobody except the manufacturer of a given oil really knows what all is in the oil they sell, so we can only speculate on the basic principles which I will now partially outline;
Ans: The viscosity (can I say resistance to flow? Should I grab my book for the textbook definition? Or we good) generally drops as the lengthy hydrocarbon alkanes of oil are warmed. That is, temperature helps the individual alkane molecules move apart from each other, less hydrophobic interactions take place. We can't stop there, because oil companies no longer leave generic alkanes in engine oil and call it a day. There are 'additives' and 'modifications' made to, and added to, the soup of oil alkanes. For example, "viscosity improvers" help the oil stay thicker as it warms than it would otherwise. some of the mods/adds are what cause the multi-viscosity, and some are to stabilize the PH, some are for chelating undesirables in solution, and the list goes on. Only the company that makes the oil knows how much of what goes into it, and what sort of things they prepare the oil for.
3: What makes oil heat up? Interesting thing to ask, but ok. The engine gets warm because combustion is partially inefficienct so temperature rises out from where it occurs. The temp of the block and everything around it warms up. Some of the surfaces can with stand much higher temps than others, like the piston surface could probably tolerate 1800*F in that range, possibly more. The water in cooling jackets helps pull excessive temperature away from places it is unwanted. Speaking of which, so does engine oil. Oil is an effective cooling component of the cooling system and should be considered just as important when maintaining a temperature as anything else. Friction of moving parts also helps warm components, is expected to. the desired operating temp of engine oil is at least 210*F because this is close enough to the boiling point of water at atmospheric pressure to drive water molecules away from the hot oil. automotive grade oils typically have a specific "thinning point", a temperature beyond which oil viscosity is notably reduced, it flows much easier beyond this temperature. Oil should be allowed to reach their respective "thinning point" before attempting any high performance session with the engine. Running an engine hard while the oil is still 'cold' can result with poor performance, poor oil flow (despite high pressure) and excessive wear and tear.
4: shearing forces at high rpm, I am much less familiar with. It sounds like there are forces which attempt to remove or disturb the oil film allowing metal/metal contact. Would you please elaborate with more detail? I try to avoid those by using lower than OEM redline with my junkyard/20 year old, original equipment projects.
06-19-2017, 11:00 PM
#28
TECH Senior Member
Oh well. It's only Monday. There is the rest of the week ahead. Try to enjoy it, man! I will, but it is supposed to be 105+* the rest of the week. Staying cool will be a relative term...
06-19-2017, 11:07 PM
#30
one more time:
Op: "My pressure was 45psi at 6000rpm, is that ok?"
Some guy: "I think GM Recommends 10psi/1000rpm, so you are in the correct range"
me: "cough, how can you say that he is in the correct range after quoting what you assumed GM recommends and its different?"
KCS: kingtal0n is wrong
pretty much that just happened, mod obviously harbors feelins for ol' talon
aww its so cute
Op: "My pressure was 45psi at 6000rpm, is that ok?"
Some guy: "I think GM Recommends 10psi/1000rpm, so you are in the correct range"
me: "cough, how can you say that he is in the correct range after quoting what you assumed GM recommends and its different?"
KCS: kingtal0n is wrong
pretty much that just happened, mod obviously harbors feelins for ol' talon
aww its so cute
06-19-2017, 11:13 PM
#31
i LOVE being wrong, by the way. You find me one place where I was genuinely wrong and refused to admit it- I make the same offer to everyone that calls me out on this: I will delete my account and never post online again. I take high enjoyment in being incorrect, in school, in life, online, because that is how you learn, and because it almost never happens.
06-19-2017, 11:14 PM
#32
Are yeh asking me this stuff? Might wana be specific to whom you are 'talking'. they look like fun questions though, especially the ones about oil viscosity.
1. I did not refer to the barbell in this thread at all. I referenced the 90psi of oil pressure in an engine under 9k rpm which the mod claimed was BS.
2. What happens to oil as it heats up! I love this question. Well, my good sir, it depends on what kind of oil we are discussing. First and foremost, I know you wanted the answer to be something like "viscosity drops" or "it thins out" or "it flows better" but that is just the beginning of a book of information regarding the chemistry of alkanes, refining process of crude oil and laboratory intervention with a myriad of components. Nobody except the manufacturer of a given oil really knows what all is in the oil they sell, so we can only speculate on the basic principles which I will now partially outline;
Ans: The viscosity (can I say resistance to flow? Should I grab my book for the textbook definition? Or we good) generally drops as the lengthy hydrocarbon alkanes of oil are warmed. That is, temperature helps the individual alkane molecules move apart from each other, less hydrophobic interactions take place. We can't stop there, because oil companies no longer leave generic alkanes in engine oil and call it a day. There are 'additives' and 'modifications' made to, and added to, the soup of oil alkanes. For example, "viscosity improvers" help the oil stay thicker as it warms than it would otherwise. some of the mods/adds are what cause the multi-viscosity, and some are to stabilize the PH, some are for chelating undesirables in solution, and the list goes on. Only the company that makes the oil knows how much of what goes into it, and what sort of things they prepare the oil for.
3: What makes oil heat up? Interesting thing to ask, but ok. The engine gets warm because combustion is partially inefficienct so temperature rises out from where it occurs. The temp of the block and everything around it warms up. Some of the surfaces can with stand much higher temps than others, like the piston surface could probably tolerate 1800*F in that range, possibly more. The water in cooling jackets helps pull excessive temperature away from places it is unwanted. Speaking of which, so does engine oil. Oil is an effective cooling component of the cooling system and should be considered just as important when maintaining a temperature as anything else. Friction of moving parts also helps warm components, is expected to. the desired operating temp of engine oil is at least 210*F because this is close enough to the boiling point of water at atmospheric pressure to drive water molecules away from the hot oil. automotive grade oils typically have a specific "thinning point", a temperature beyond which oil viscosity is notably reduced, it flows much easier beyond this temperature. Oil should be allowed to reach their respective "thinning point" before attempting any high performance session with the engine. Running an engine hard while the oil is still 'cold' can result with poor performance, poor oil flow (despite high pressure) and excessive wear and tear.
4: shearing forces at high rpm, I am much less familiar with. It sounds like there are forces which attempt to remove or disturb the oil film allowing metal/metal contact. Would you please elaborate with more detail? I try to avoid those by using lower than OEM redline with my junkyard/20 year old, original equipment projects.
1. I did not refer to the barbell in this thread at all. I referenced the 90psi of oil pressure in an engine under 9k rpm which the mod claimed was BS.
2. What happens to oil as it heats up! I love this question. Well, my good sir, it depends on what kind of oil we are discussing. First and foremost, I know you wanted the answer to be something like "viscosity drops" or "it thins out" or "it flows better" but that is just the beginning of a book of information regarding the chemistry of alkanes, refining process of crude oil and laboratory intervention with a myriad of components. Nobody except the manufacturer of a given oil really knows what all is in the oil they sell, so we can only speculate on the basic principles which I will now partially outline;
Ans: The viscosity (can I say resistance to flow? Should I grab my book for the textbook definition? Or we good) generally drops as the lengthy hydrocarbon alkanes of oil are warmed. That is, temperature helps the individual alkane molecules move apart from each other, less hydrophobic interactions take place. We can't stop there, because oil companies no longer leave generic alkanes in engine oil and call it a day. There are 'additives' and 'modifications' made to, and added to, the soup of oil alkanes. For example, "viscosity improvers" help the oil stay thicker as it warms than it would otherwise. some of the mods/adds are what cause the multi-viscosity, and some are to stabilize the PH, some are for chelating undesirables in solution, and the list goes on. Only the company that makes the oil knows how much of what goes into it, and what sort of things they prepare the oil for.
3: What makes oil heat up? Interesting thing to ask, but ok. The engine gets warm because combustion is partially inefficienct so temperature rises out from where it occurs. The temp of the block and everything around it warms up. Some of the surfaces can with stand much higher temps than others, like the piston surface could probably tolerate 1800*F in that range, possibly more. The water in cooling jackets helps pull excessive temperature away from places it is unwanted. Speaking of which, so does engine oil. Oil is an effective cooling component of the cooling system and should be considered just as important when maintaining a temperature as anything else. Friction of moving parts also helps warm components, is expected to. the desired operating temp of engine oil is at least 210*F because this is close enough to the boiling point of water at atmospheric pressure to drive water molecules away from the hot oil. automotive grade oils typically have a specific "thinning point", a temperature beyond which oil viscosity is notably reduced, it flows much easier beyond this temperature. Oil should be allowed to reach their respective "thinning point" before attempting any high performance session with the engine. Running an engine hard while the oil is still 'cold' can result with poor performance, poor oil flow (despite high pressure) and excessive wear and tear.
4: shearing forces at high rpm, I am much less familiar with. It sounds like there are forces which attempt to remove or disturb the oil film allowing metal/metal contact. Would you please elaborate with more detail? I try to avoid those by using lower than OEM redline with my junkyard/20 year old, original equipment projects.
You do ZERO research besides google and some bs you try to elegantly lay out, which is still only as good as the first page of a google search and have no idea on advanced theory. Stick with imports bud, theyll work better for you.
It was obvious i was asking you as KCS knows more than I do and so on up the totem pole.
Id say the forum joke is you.
As a forum vendor and sponsor, i normally dont go into diatribes like this but seriously you have made a pretty bad impression on everyone and still haven't learned anything.
Learn, then speak. That will get you places.
06-19-2017, 11:15 PM
#33
TECH Senior Member
You know what I'm talking about, but I'm in sunny (VERY sunny...) California. Enjoy the cool while you can!
06-19-2017, 11:25 PM
#34
So you quote saccity without even knowing what their products are or do? They were specifically talking about the operating parameters and testing they have perosnally done on their specific engine not laying down the cover and backing for the book on ls oil pressure.
You do ZERO research besides google and some bs you try to elegantly lay out, which is still only as good as the first page of a google search and have no idea on advanced theory. Stick with imports bud, theyll work better for you.
It was obvious i was asking you as KCS knows more than I do and so on up the totem pole.
Id say the forum joke is you.
As a forum vendor and sponsor, i normally dont go into diatribes like this but seriously you have made a pretty bad impression on everyone and still haven't learned anything.
Learn, then speak. That will get you places.
You do ZERO research besides google and some bs you try to elegantly lay out, which is still only as good as the first page of a google search and have no idea on advanced theory. Stick with imports bud, theyll work better for you.
It was obvious i was asking you as KCS knows more than I do and so on up the totem pole.
Id say the forum joke is you.
As a forum vendor and sponsor, i normally dont go into diatribes like this but seriously you have made a pretty bad impression on everyone and still haven't learned anything.
Learn, then speak. That will get you places.
I think you just like being mad on the internet. I quoted saccity to prove that not all LS engines in the world run less than 10psi/1k rpm. and thats it. I could have quoted anybody on the internet with an engine like that. it was just a coincidence that I saw their post right at the same time as this one.
'everyone' all four individuals lol gjdm
06-19-2017, 11:25 PM
#35
wow, I tried to be nice to the guy by not calling him out, what is that called? Isn't that something I did for somebody to be nice? I went out of my way to not point my finger. My initial, first post, was an act of pure kindness with some thought provoking statements. That is what I open with. From that point, the info never degrades into name calling or degradation, it stays on topic and friendly in nature. I added info wherever I could and answer all questions until satisfactory. So where the hell are you coming from? I even took the time to answer your lame questions. Umad? Lots of people getting mad these days.
i LOVE being wrong, by the way. You find me one place where I was genuinely wrong and refused to admit it- I make the same offer to everyone that calls me out on this: I will delete my account and never post online again. I take high enjoyment in being incorrect, in school, in life, online, because that is how you learn, and because it almost never happens.
i LOVE being wrong, by the way. You find me one place where I was genuinely wrong and refused to admit it- I make the same offer to everyone that calls me out on this: I will delete my account and never post online again. I take high enjoyment in being incorrect, in school, in life, online, because that is how you learn, and because it almost never happens.
What youve said that is wrong has already been pointed out. backpedalling and rephrasing didnt fix it. i assume you are a grown man, you should be able to figure out where you are wrong if you had some hubris anyway.
Wasted breath it seems.
06-19-2017, 11:29 PM
#37
This is all that was delivered with my "blind quote". Not sure what else you see? It isn't MY idea.
You spoke of research- something which I am fond of. Where did that come from? Mildly curious since you brought it up and attempted to slander my name as if you somehow know what sort of research I do.
06-19-2017, 11:44 PM
#39
Slander. thats a bit rich isnt it? Your blind quote of saccity. you quoted him without even knowing that they were talking about the improvements they made with the specific parts they sell like the BARBELL and bypass delete, plus a list of other parts. They didnt make a statement about all ls engines or normal ls engines yet you cherry picked it to show that. They showed clearly that they can produce results with their parts that dont suffer from the downfalls of the stock parts...again exactly what i said before and even alluded to when i gave the cyl head flow metaphor.
I assume you either read and threw it all out or read and didnt understand? this would be the second time to repeat myself and again to point out your errors.
Do you own research it seems you know google well enough.
I assume you either read and threw it all out or read and didnt understand? this would be the second time to repeat myself and again to point out your errors.
Do you own research it seems you know google well enough.
