Choosing a cam for my L92/LS3 in a street/road course C5
12-18-2017, 03:32 PM
#1
Choosing a cam for my L92/LS3 in a street/road course C5 So I have been kicking around the idea of tossing a cam in the L92 I recently purchased, which is going in my 2000 FRC C5.
I am in the process of converting the L92 to LS3 specs (deleting VVT, going with a 3 bolt cam, etc). I want to keep the stock solid L92 valves, notched pistons, lifters, bottom end, etc. 78K on the engine.
Car is a daily driver on nice days, and sees the road course maybe 3-5 times a year. I drive it to work as often as I can and spend a lot of time cruising on the highway as well as around town. Driveability is very important.
I had a TSP228R (228/228 .588/.588) cam in my LQ4 E39 BMW and learned a WHOLE lot about what I do and don't want in a cam.
The C5 currently has XS Power longtubes, off road 3" x-pipe, stock catback, 3" cutouts before mufflers, zip tie mod intake, nothing too wild. 4.10 gears, T56. LS7 clutch, Tick Clutch master, etc.
Absolute top must haves:
Valvetrain reliability
On my old setup in the 6.0 BMW, a broken aftermarket single beehive PAC spring caused a valve to drop, breaking the piston and putting a rod through the block. That caused me a lot of headache and unnecessary cost, so I am avoiding this at all costs. I will gladly sacrifice peak and or midrange power/torque for a design that will ensure long valvespring life with little to no maintenance. Especially important for roadcourse duty. I'm assuming a stout dual valvespring setup with lightweight titanium retainers will be a must, along with hardened pushrods.
Driveability
Must drive like stock, or damn near close to it. I don't mind a choppy idle, ran a 112LSA on the 228R and liked the chop; in fact, a solid chop sound is desirable. What I don't want is the car rocking at idle. I am trying to stay far, far away from low speed bucking, idle surge problems, etc. I realize much of this is related to the skill of the tuner, but the cam choice will directly affect driveability. Again as this is a daily car I want to be able to putter it around in the city where I work, without hating how it drives.
Ease of tuning is a big factor as well. I do have HPTuners and would ideally buy a base tune/startup file to be able to put some miles on the setup and break it all in before going for final tuning. Perhaps a shop wants to work with me on that and send updated files based on logs I provide? Is that a thing in the LS world?
Power
Yes, last on the list is power - over 450whp would be nice, but I am fine with sacrificing peak power in order to hold fast to the above items. Being primarily a street car I only take it to the strip maybe once a year, the rest is street driving, highway blasts, back roads, and the occasional track day. I am much more concerned with a broad powerband and area under the curve than an all out, peak number.
I like the sound and low lift (easy on valvetrain) of the Howard's ASA cam.
Thanks in advance.
I am in the process of converting the L92 to LS3 specs (deleting VVT, going with a 3 bolt cam, etc). I want to keep the stock solid L92 valves, notched pistons, lifters, bottom end, etc. 78K on the engine.
Car is a daily driver on nice days, and sees the road course maybe 3-5 times a year. I drive it to work as often as I can and spend a lot of time cruising on the highway as well as around town. Driveability is very important.
I had a TSP228R (228/228 .588/.588) cam in my LQ4 E39 BMW and learned a WHOLE lot about what I do and don't want in a cam.
The C5 currently has XS Power longtubes, off road 3" x-pipe, stock catback, 3" cutouts before mufflers, zip tie mod intake, nothing too wild. 4.10 gears, T56. LS7 clutch, Tick Clutch master, etc.
Absolute top must haves:
Valvetrain reliability
On my old setup in the 6.0 BMW, a broken aftermarket single beehive PAC spring caused a valve to drop, breaking the piston and putting a rod through the block. That caused me a lot of headache and unnecessary cost, so I am avoiding this at all costs. I will gladly sacrifice peak and or midrange power/torque for a design that will ensure long valvespring life with little to no maintenance. Especially important for roadcourse duty. I'm assuming a stout dual valvespring setup with lightweight titanium retainers will be a must, along with hardened pushrods.
Driveability
Must drive like stock, or damn near close to it. I don't mind a choppy idle, ran a 112LSA on the 228R and liked the chop; in fact, a solid chop sound is desirable. What I don't want is the car rocking at idle. I am trying to stay far, far away from low speed bucking, idle surge problems, etc. I realize much of this is related to the skill of the tuner, but the cam choice will directly affect driveability. Again as this is a daily car I want to be able to putter it around in the city where I work, without hating how it drives.
Ease of tuning is a big factor as well. I do have HPTuners and would ideally buy a base tune/startup file to be able to put some miles on the setup and break it all in before going for final tuning. Perhaps a shop wants to work with me on that and send updated files based on logs I provide? Is that a thing in the LS world?
Power
Yes, last on the list is power - over 450whp would be nice, but I am fine with sacrificing peak power in order to hold fast to the above items. Being primarily a street car I only take it to the strip maybe once a year, the rest is street driving, highway blasts, back roads, and the occasional track day. I am much more concerned with a broad powerband and area under the curve than an all out, peak number.
I like the sound and low lift (easy on valvetrain) of the Howard's ASA cam.
Thanks in advance.
12-18-2017, 05:30 PM
#3
You've been here long Enough with 716 post to know. You want to Hear here say and what you think about this or that. Oh that sounds soooo.... good and it'd be perfect. The time you used to post should have been on the PHONE to get FACTS and a Quote.
12-18-2017, 05:53 PM
#4
As Kip or other cam makers here would say send them a PM or call and we'd be glad to help YOU. Some of ya'll act like your scared to call and ask questions but rather hear from guy's who Don't make cams. What's the Logic?
12-18-2017, 07:41 PM
#6
Can't speak for the OP but I made a similar thread. Had spoken to a few guys about it and wanted some opinions from knowledgeable people with similar combinations. I just like to bench race.
12-18-2017, 08:30 PM
#7
TECH Senior Member
I have to agree with Patron here (rare moment lol!). Call either Cam, Texas Speed, Kip Performance, WS6store.com, or whoever you like for cams, but get a solid KNOWLEDGEABLE opinion on a cam that will do YOU (not your buddy) some good. Any of the above will steer you straight.
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12-19-2017, 06:52 AM
#8
Geez, tough crowd here, you guys know this is supposed to be fun, right?
The time it took you to post all that could have been used to provide a first hand account of your experience with cams that are used in this scenario. I guess the days of asking around for real world, first hand experience are long gone.
I don't doubt the abilities of the professionals to design and spec a cam - in fact I plan on going that route - but there's nothing like hearing from folks that have put thousands of miles on these parts.
I don't doubt the abilities of the professionals to design and spec a cam - in fact I plan on going that route - but there's nothing like hearing from folks that have put thousands of miles on these parts.
12-19-2017, 08:27 AM
#9
Don't get it twisted, your talking DD yet some Road Race and every car has it's own thing such as weight, trans being used,rear gear, RPM range needed etc.....
Now you did ask but you didn't get any response Doesn't this tell you something. I'm not hating but there are so many what would this cam do threads. You didn't even have a cam in mind so that someone could give you an Idea of IVC and overlap or I have that cam and it works good...etc. So your just looking for a cam.
You posted:Valve Train reliability-Driveability-Power . Your up send one of the guy's listed a PM or JUST pick up the phone.
I get what your saying. I'd call Kip,Pat G,Martin,Tick! Not a engine / parts / installation vendor. They only do cams so you getting 1st hand Knowledge as this is what they Specifically do. Not knocking any vendor Just saying. You meet most of the needs for these cams. Call and you'll have one made JUST for your car like no one else.
BTW if you call you would get bench mark racing at it's finest they're making the cam tailored for you.
http://www.cammotion.com/camshafts/t...7-237-113-3-5/
or
http://www.tickperformance.com/tick-...3-l99-engines/
Now you did ask but you didn't get any response Doesn't this tell you something. I'm not hating but there are so many what would this cam do threads. You didn't even have a cam in mind so that someone could give you an Idea of IVC and overlap or I have that cam and it works good...etc. So your just looking for a cam.
You posted:Valve Train reliability-Driveability-Power . Your up send one of the guy's listed a PM or JUST pick up the phone.
I guess the days of asking around for real world, first hand experience are long gone. No there not.
I don't doubt the abilities of the professionals to design and spec a cam - in fact I plan on going that route - but there's nothing like hearing from folks that have put thousands of miles on these parts. They'd know as if it's F'ing up who you gonna call. Vendor from which you purchased it from.
I get what your saying. I'd call Kip,Pat G,Martin,Tick! Not a engine / parts / installation vendor. They only do cams so you getting 1st hand Knowledge as this is what they Specifically do. Not knocking any vendor Just saying. You meet most of the needs for these cams. Call and you'll have one made JUST for your car like no one else.
BTW if you call you would get bench mark racing at it's finest they're making the cam tailored for you.
http://www.cammotion.com/camshafts/t...7-237-113-3-5/
or
http://www.tickperformance.com/tick-...3-l99-engines/
12-19-2017, 08:42 AM
#10
Here's one for you I had a idea about a cam, some time ago said I wanted 730-750fwhp with A/c NA. Who's gonna help with this besides a cam manufacturer? Or do as I did and research and find a build you like and copy it and run it by someone or here. I copied John B's cam just with less lift. I asked John about his cam beforehand.
Just call brother. Once you have the cam specs in mind then you bench race.
Just call brother. Once you have the cam specs in mind then you bench race.
Last edited by Patron; 12-19-2017 at 08:52 AM.
12-19-2017, 01:02 PM
#11
So I have been kicking around the idea of tossing a cam in the L92 I recently purchased, which is going in my 2000 FRC C5.
I am in the process of converting the L92 to LS3 specs (deleting VVT, going with a 3 bolt cam, etc). I want to keep the stock solid L92 valves, notched pistons, lifters, bottom end, etc. 78K on the engine.
Car is a daily driver on nice days, and sees the road course maybe 3-5 times a year. I drive it to work as often as I can and spend a lot of time cruising on the highway as well as around town. Driveability is very important.
I had a TSP228R (228/228 .588/.588) cam in my LQ4 E39 BMW and learned a WHOLE lot about what I do and don't want in a cam.
The C5 currently has XS Power longtubes, off road 3" x-pipe, stock catback, 3" cutouts before mufflers, zip tie mod intake, nothing too wild. 4.10 gears, T56. LS7 clutch, Tick Clutch master, etc.
Absolute top must haves:
Valvetrain reliability
On my old setup in the 6.0 BMW, a broken aftermarket single beehive PAC spring caused a valve to drop, breaking the piston and putting a rod through the block. That caused me a lot of headache and unnecessary cost, so I am avoiding this at all costs. I will gladly sacrifice peak and or midrange power/torque for a design that will ensure long valvespring life with little to no maintenance. Especially important for roadcourse duty. I'm assuming a stout dual valvespring setup with lightweight titanium retainers will be a must, along with hardened pushrods.
Driveability
Must drive like stock, or damn near close to it. I don't mind a choppy idle, ran a 112LSA on the 228R and liked the chop; in fact, a solid chop sound is desirable. What I don't want is the car rocking at idle. I am trying to stay far, far away from low speed bucking, idle surge problems, etc. I realize much of this is related to the skill of the tuner, but the cam choice will directly affect driveability. Again as this is a daily car I want to be able to putter it around in the city where I work, without hating how it drives.
Ease of tuning is a big factor as well. I do have HPTuners and would ideally buy a base tune/startup file to be able to put some miles on the setup and break it all in before going for final tuning. Perhaps a shop wants to work with me on that and send updated files based on logs I provide? Is that a thing in the LS world?
Power
Yes, last on the list is power - over 450whp would be nice, but I am fine with sacrificing peak power in order to hold fast to the above items. Being primarily a street car I only take it to the strip maybe once a year, the rest is street driving, highway blasts, back roads, and the occasional track day. I am much more concerned with a broad powerband and area under the curve than an all out, peak number.
I like the sound and low lift (easy on valvetrain) of the Howard's ASA cam.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTzbcqY7i9U
Thanks in advance.
I am in the process of converting the L92 to LS3 specs (deleting VVT, going with a 3 bolt cam, etc). I want to keep the stock solid L92 valves, notched pistons, lifters, bottom end, etc. 78K on the engine.
Car is a daily driver on nice days, and sees the road course maybe 3-5 times a year. I drive it to work as often as I can and spend a lot of time cruising on the highway as well as around town. Driveability is very important.
I had a TSP228R (228/228 .588/.588) cam in my LQ4 E39 BMW and learned a WHOLE lot about what I do and don't want in a cam.
The C5 currently has XS Power longtubes, off road 3" x-pipe, stock catback, 3" cutouts before mufflers, zip tie mod intake, nothing too wild. 4.10 gears, T56. LS7 clutch, Tick Clutch master, etc.
Absolute top must haves:
Valvetrain reliability
On my old setup in the 6.0 BMW, a broken aftermarket single beehive PAC spring caused a valve to drop, breaking the piston and putting a rod through the block. That caused me a lot of headache and unnecessary cost, so I am avoiding this at all costs. I will gladly sacrifice peak and or midrange power/torque for a design that will ensure long valvespring life with little to no maintenance. Especially important for roadcourse duty. I'm assuming a stout dual valvespring setup with lightweight titanium retainers will be a must, along with hardened pushrods.
Driveability
Must drive like stock, or damn near close to it. I don't mind a choppy idle, ran a 112LSA on the 228R and liked the chop; in fact, a solid chop sound is desirable. What I don't want is the car rocking at idle. I am trying to stay far, far away from low speed bucking, idle surge problems, etc. I realize much of this is related to the skill of the tuner, but the cam choice will directly affect driveability. Again as this is a daily car I want to be able to putter it around in the city where I work, without hating how it drives.
Ease of tuning is a big factor as well. I do have HPTuners and would ideally buy a base tune/startup file to be able to put some miles on the setup and break it all in before going for final tuning. Perhaps a shop wants to work with me on that and send updated files based on logs I provide? Is that a thing in the LS world?
Power
Yes, last on the list is power - over 450whp would be nice, but I am fine with sacrificing peak power in order to hold fast to the above items. Being primarily a street car I only take it to the strip maybe once a year, the rest is street driving, highway blasts, back roads, and the occasional track day. I am much more concerned with a broad powerband and area under the curve than an all out, peak number.
I like the sound and low lift (easy on valvetrain) of the Howard's ASA cam.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTzbcqY7i9U
Thanks in advance.
http://www.cammotion.com/camshafts/t...7-237-113-3-5/
It will make your power goals, have the idle characteristic you like and drive excellent.
Use these lifters:
http://www.cammotion.com/valve-train...ray-retainers/
And these valve springs:
http://www.cammotion.com/valve-sprin...ium-retainers/
Let me know if you have any questions.
~Steven
__________________
The Switch Is On To Cam Motion!
40 years of Championship Winning Experience • Superior 8620 Steel Camshaft Cores • Quiet, Smooth & Powerful Lobe Design • Virtually Unlimited Lift and Duration Combinations • Finish Polished For Quiet Operation • Cam Doctor Printout With All Cams
The Industry's Best Customer Service
www.CamMotion.com • ☎ 225-926-6110 • Like Us On Facebook!
The Switch Is On To Cam Motion!
40 years of Championship Winning Experience • Superior 8620 Steel Camshaft Cores • Quiet, Smooth & Powerful Lobe Design • Virtually Unlimited Lift and Duration Combinations • Finish Polished For Quiet Operation • Cam Doctor Printout With All Cams
The Industry's Best Customer Service
www.CamMotion.com • ☎ 225-926-6110 • Like Us On Facebook!
12-19-2017, 01:22 PM
#12
I think the Titan 3 LS3 camshaft is exactly what you are looking for:
http://www.cammotion.com/camshafts/t...7-237-113-3-5/
It will make your power goals, have the idle characteristic you like and drive excellent.
Use these lifters:
http://www.cammotion.com/valve-train...ray-retainers/
And these valve springs:
http://www.cammotion.com/valve-sprin...ium-retainers/
Let me know if you have any questions.
~Steven
http://www.cammotion.com/camshafts/t...7-237-113-3-5/
It will make your power goals, have the idle characteristic you like and drive excellent.
Use these lifters:
http://www.cammotion.com/valve-train...ray-retainers/
And these valve springs:
http://www.cammotion.com/valve-sprin...ium-retainers/
Let me know if you have any questions.
~Steven
12-19-2017, 01:50 PM
#13
In regards to the lifters, you can certainly run the GM lifters to save some money. We sell them for $134.95. However, if you want the best, I highly recommend our premium lifters manufactured by Johnson Lifters. They are a stronger and quieter lifter.
__________________
The Switch Is On To Cam Motion!
40 years of Championship Winning Experience • Superior 8620 Steel Camshaft Cores • Quiet, Smooth & Powerful Lobe Design • Virtually Unlimited Lift and Duration Combinations • Finish Polished For Quiet Operation • Cam Doctor Printout With All Cams
The Industry's Best Customer Service
www.CamMotion.com • ☎ 225-926-6110 • Like Us On Facebook!
The Switch Is On To Cam Motion!
40 years of Championship Winning Experience • Superior 8620 Steel Camshaft Cores • Quiet, Smooth & Powerful Lobe Design • Virtually Unlimited Lift and Duration Combinations • Finish Polished For Quiet Operation • Cam Doctor Printout With All Cams
The Industry's Best Customer Service
www.CamMotion.com • ☎ 225-926-6110 • Like Us On Facebook!
12-21-2017, 09:45 AM
#16
Staging Lane
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Ontario
Posts: 53
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227/238 113 +4 with .605/.615 lift
good mid-range with a relatively flat TQ curve that comes on strong around 3500 and pull nicely to around 6500 with usable power even at 6800
There are many different lobes on the market that determine the ramp rates on and off. This can dramatically effect your valvetrain durability. XER lobes are MUCH more aggressive by comparison.
I chose the LXL lobe from Comp Cam based on previous experience with my previous builds.
I'm sure I give up a little max hp but for me its a no brainer.
Edit. Just want to add... Picking the right numbers (in degrees) to move the TQ curve around and where you want your power is only half the battle.
The other battle is to find the lobe that is right for you😀
Last edited by Z06VENOM; 12-21-2017 at 10:13 AM.
12-29-2017, 03:42 PM
#17
I contacted 4 manufacturers and gave them all the same info when asking for a cam/hardware setup.
CamMotion recommended their Titan Stage 3
http://www.cammotion.com/camshafts/t...7-237-113-3-5/
Tick recommended their Street Heat Stage 1
http://www.tickperformance.com/tick-...3-l99-engines/
Texas Speed recommended their Stage 2
https://www.texas-speed.com/p-5761-n...-camshaft.aspx
Brian Tooley Racing recommended their Stage 2 NA LS3 cam.
https://www.briantooleyracing.com/ls...-bolt-cam.html
I put together a spreadsheet of all the parts needed and found that BTR had the best prices for the whole package I needed (keep in mind I am also deleting VVT, etc) along with free shipping.
So, I ordered:
All vendors responded within a day or two and were helpful in providing me with information on not just the cam but supporting hardware (springs, lifters etc), but I'm kind of surprised that nobody suggested a custom grind. Maybe my application just isn't that specialized, I'm sure the short gears and light weight help it get up and go.
LS3 Stage II 3 Bolt Cam 225/238 .612"/.585" 113+3
"This cam has made over 470rwhp in LS3 Camaro and Corvettes." I was told this cam would drive much nicer than the Stage III at the expense of 10-20 rwhp which I'm fine with.
.660" Lift BTR Platinum Springs, Titanium retainers
BTR GM LS ROCKER ARM TRUNNION UPGRADE KIT TK001
Delphi LS7 Lifters, Set of 16
BTR Basic VVT Delete Kit
Regardless it's a great time to be an LS enthusiast, the aftermarket is rich with good information and selection.
CamMotion recommended their Titan Stage 3
http://www.cammotion.com/camshafts/t...7-237-113-3-5/
Tick recommended their Street Heat Stage 1
http://www.tickperformance.com/tick-...3-l99-engines/
Texas Speed recommended their Stage 2
https://www.texas-speed.com/p-5761-n...-camshaft.aspx
Brian Tooley Racing recommended their Stage 2 NA LS3 cam.
https://www.briantooleyracing.com/ls...-bolt-cam.html
I put together a spreadsheet of all the parts needed and found that BTR had the best prices for the whole package I needed (keep in mind I am also deleting VVT, etc) along with free shipping.
So, I ordered:
All vendors responded within a day or two and were helpful in providing me with information on not just the cam but supporting hardware (springs, lifters etc), but I'm kind of surprised that nobody suggested a custom grind. Maybe my application just isn't that specialized, I'm sure the short gears and light weight help it get up and go.
LS3 Stage II 3 Bolt Cam 225/238 .612"/.585" 113+3
"This cam has made over 470rwhp in LS3 Camaro and Corvettes." I was told this cam would drive much nicer than the Stage III at the expense of 10-20 rwhp which I'm fine with.
.660" Lift BTR Platinum Springs, Titanium retainers
BTR GM LS ROCKER ARM TRUNNION UPGRADE KIT TK001
Delphi LS7 Lifters, Set of 16
BTR Basic VVT Delete Kit
Regardless it's a great time to be an LS enthusiast, the aftermarket is rich with good information and selection.
