MAST Black Label Head Failure...$20K motor destroyed. Need Help.
02-06-2018, 06:38 PM
#1
MAST Black Label Head Failure...$20K motor destroyed. Need Help. Looking for some help here guys...and will provide some in return.
Last year around this time, I embarked on a pretty significant twin turbo build:
- ERL 427 Shortblock
- Mast Black Label Heads (the works)
- Custom Twin Turbo System
- BMR A2W intake
- Chiller
...the build was held up for a number for reasons, notably valve sourcing for the Mast Heads. Fast forward to October 2017...car is finished, proper break-in completed and prelim tuning was complete. I was all set to head to the first track rental at Bowling green Kentucky when disaster struck on short trip to the gym. Dropped a valve, with 3 more on the way out (see pics of carnage). Destroyed a $20+K almost irreplaceable ERL motor...the culprit...Trick Titanium (correction from Trick Flow Valves) used in my $5K Mast heads.
I work for a major OEM and have some friends (e.g. power train engineers) in the Performance group that took a look at the damage and initial analysis concluded that it was faulty valves. Given the racing connection, they were familiar with what usually comes in Mast Heads (e.g. Victory Valves or forgot the other source) and noted that they werent the normal valves. Gonna have formal write up done for use later.
Brings us to today. I have been waiting since Oct of 2016 for replacement heads/valves with commitment that Mast would “take care of me”. Got the call today saying that heads are ready and that they would be provided as soon as I remitted payment.
At this point, I’ve had enough. I am going to use the $15K rebuild money to get the attorney’s involved. Not only are they not willing to replace the damaged motor (block requires special ERL re-sleeve and new pistons), they won’t even replace the parts that destroyed the motor (e.g. heads/valves)! The purpose of this post is two-fold:
1.) Wanted to warn anyone that has purchased Mast in the past year, check which valves you have...probably worth the trouble.
2.) If you have purchased Mast Heads in the past year to 18mos, and have had a failure, contact me...we may be able to get together on the legal cost and to show pattern. Im sure I’m not the only one.
Note: this is not the usual “bitch” post, I’m looking for info here. Im not looking for anyone that has had a great experience to chime in on why Mast is great. I thought they were great too, which is why I spent $5K on their heads....my experience hasn’t been so great now that I have in issue. If the car actually made it to the track, I wouldn’t have said a word...its part of the “sport”. Problem is, car only had low boost street miles and analysis from a machine shop and my professional racing engineers showed part failure. Probably pretty easy court case. Guess I’ll be racing the new Z this year.
Last year around this time, I embarked on a pretty significant twin turbo build:
- ERL 427 Shortblock
- Mast Black Label Heads (the works)
- Custom Twin Turbo System
- BMR A2W intake
- Chiller
...the build was held up for a number for reasons, notably valve sourcing for the Mast Heads. Fast forward to October 2017...car is finished, proper break-in completed and prelim tuning was complete. I was all set to head to the first track rental at Bowling green Kentucky when disaster struck on short trip to the gym. Dropped a valve, with 3 more on the way out (see pics of carnage). Destroyed a $20+K almost irreplaceable ERL motor...the culprit...Trick Titanium (correction from Trick Flow Valves) used in my $5K Mast heads.
I work for a major OEM and have some friends (e.g. power train engineers) in the Performance group that took a look at the damage and initial analysis concluded that it was faulty valves. Given the racing connection, they were familiar with what usually comes in Mast Heads (e.g. Victory Valves or forgot the other source) and noted that they werent the normal valves. Gonna have formal write up done for use later.
Brings us to today. I have been waiting since Oct of 2016 for replacement heads/valves with commitment that Mast would “take care of me”. Got the call today saying that heads are ready and that they would be provided as soon as I remitted payment.
At this point, I’ve had enough. I am going to use the $15K rebuild money to get the attorney’s involved. Not only are they not willing to replace the damaged motor (block requires special ERL re-sleeve and new pistons), they won’t even replace the parts that destroyed the motor (e.g. heads/valves)! The purpose of this post is two-fold:
1.) Wanted to warn anyone that has purchased Mast in the past year, check which valves you have...probably worth the trouble.
2.) If you have purchased Mast Heads in the past year to 18mos, and have had a failure, contact me...we may be able to get together on the legal cost and to show pattern. Im sure I’m not the only one.
Note: this is not the usual “bitch” post, I’m looking for info here. Im not looking for anyone that has had a great experience to chime in on why Mast is great. I thought they were great too, which is why I spent $5K on their heads....my experience hasn’t been so great now that I have in issue. If the car actually made it to the track, I wouldn’t have said a word...its part of the “sport”. Problem is, car only had low boost street miles and analysis from a machine shop and my professional racing engineers showed part failure. Probably pretty easy court case. Guess I’ll be racing the new Z this year.
Last edited by EarlH; 09-13-2018 at 04:41 AM. Reason: Corrected name of valve supplier
02-06-2018, 07:09 PM
#4
I want to make sure rhat my rationale is clear on this post. Its not bash MAST, but to warn guys that have made recent purchases... check ur setup. Im also looking for guys wirh simikar experience...ive worked for 3 of the major OEMs for almost 20yrs...quality issues usually come in bunches.
02-06-2018, 07:33 PM
#5
TECH Senior Member
So is the culprit Trick Flow or Mast? The valves failed, not so much the head(s). Did you specify the Trick Flow valves or are they what Mast used on that particular model of head?
02-06-2018, 07:35 PM
#6
Mast provided the head fully assembled. Intended use was communicated. They didnt use either of their top 2 valve suppliers.
02-06-2018, 07:52 PM
#7
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I forwarded your thread to a friend who is running mast heads. Very sorry to hear your trouble. Damn
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02-06-2018, 08:40 PM
#8
Really hate to see this !! I hope you can work this out between Mast .
Save your money for a new engine . When you get attorneys involved the attorneys
are the winners !!
Now if we where talking about $100K and something other then go fast parts hire a attorney .
Save your money for a new engine . When you get attorneys involved the attorneys
are the winners !!
Now if we where talking about $100K and something other then go fast parts hire a attorney .
02-06-2018, 08:52 PM
#9
Really hate to see this !! I hope you can work this out between Mast .
Save your money for a new engine . When you get attorneys involved the attorneys
are the winners !!
Now if we where talking about $100K and something other then go fast parts hire a attorney .
Save your money for a new engine . When you get attorneys involved the attorneys
are the winners !!
Now if we where talking about $100K and something other then go fast parts hire a attorney .
02-06-2018, 09:05 PM
#10
TECH Senior Member
Sounds like Mast is riding on their name, and cutting corners.
02-06-2018, 09:27 PM
#11
ModSquad
iTrader: (6)
I see two intake valves broken. I’ve never seen an engine break multiple valves at the same time, unless there was a setup issue. I’m NOT saying that’s the case here. Did you know that you were waiting on TrickFlow valves? What size is that intake valve? Do you have a part number for it?
02-06-2018, 09:33 PM
#12
I see two intake valves broken. I’ve never seen an engine break multiple valves at the same time, unless there was a setup issue. I’m NOT saying that’s the case here. Did you know that you were waiting on TrickFlow valves? What size is that intake valve? Do you have a part number for it?
02-06-2018, 09:37 PM
#13
ModSquad
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02-07-2018, 12:41 PM
#17
FormerVendor
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The Horrest Mast Problem Hi Earl, I too have had problems with MAST MS, the EXAMPLE was when at PRI, I found MY cast Valve Covers on his display engine with HIS statement as HIS cast production.
I could care LESS, if he wanted to purchase in the future, though NO P.O. was ever received.
I would like to HELP using my EAP method the "model" your engine ?
This, as an engineer (as yourself), is common for me to do with Valve Train Dynamics as EASY prediction.
I believe Valves are hard to break AND with the ROOT problem NOT FOUND could cause a REPEAT FAILURE.
Would you like my help ?
Lance
I could care LESS, if he wanted to purchase in the future, though NO P.O. was ever received.
I would like to HELP using my EAP method the "model" your engine ?
This, as an engineer (as yourself), is common for me to do with Valve Train Dynamics as EASY prediction.
I believe Valves are hard to break AND with the ROOT problem NOT FOUND could cause a REPEAT FAILURE.
Would you like my help ?
Lance
02-07-2018, 07:04 PM
#18
Failure analysis is an integral part of reconstruction
Any “Hot rodder” been in the game awhile knows this
Unfortunately the older we get the more expensive the builds AND the less
Initiative we have to “regroup”
Valve train details have to be spot on
Any “Hot rodder” been in the game awhile knows this
Unfortunately the older we get the more expensive the builds AND the less
Initiative we have to “regroup”
Valve train details have to be spot on
02-07-2018, 08:42 PM
#19
Wow, sorry to read and see your bad news. Hope everything works out in the end.
I purchased my MAST LS7 265 Med bore heads in December of 2014. It came to me in March of 2015. The car is finally ready to hit the track this Spring. So far so good.
I purchased my MAST LS7 265 Med bore heads in December of 2014. It came to me in March of 2015. The car is finally ready to hit the track this Spring. So far so good.
???