heads for 4.125 bore and help me choose what parts
08-16-2018, 06:40 PM
#61
I know I'm just messing with you both......But here's the kicker The ETP 255 Cathedral heads or AKA the 245 Mast heads supplied enough air to support a big bore Lsx block and Lq4 revv'ing to 9800 rpm and ran 8's with both combinations same parts just different blocks. I like the Mast heads just for the valve angle if I had to choose. I figure there pretty much right as the TFS 235 head is a head that can work with pretty much any combination besides a bore under 4.0. It's just a good ole all around head N/a, or F.I. Not saying it's the best but overall it can go either way.....Add volume for more CFM and RPM or leave them as is. All heads need the CSA matched for rpm,cubic inches,weight, cam used etc....It's just a head that covers all the bases Darn Good too start Tq or HP. That doesn't include intakes Ls3 has that.
Side note I've been window shopping looking for better casting not that I'm going out and getting a set just looking for a better casting(something I like to do so I can research it). I really like the bare RHS but finding valves is a Problem! There heads use a 5.695 long Titanium valve for the 2.250 valve with a 5/16 stem and they have a 5.565 long Stainless 8mm 2.20 valve they sell for their Ls7 heads. Neither gives a tip length or manufacturer. Brodix or TFS seems to be easier to get parts for but lack the .220 raised runner of the RHS heads Ls7 heads. Buddy of mine @ Ferrea said he could do a custom stainless set for around $370 with the length but needed the tip length which is not given. Really forgot to ask about a Hollow stem which is what I was looking for not $1k in titanium valves, it would have been nice for a idea. Just something I like to do ask a ? and find the answer.
Side note I've been window shopping looking for better casting not that I'm going out and getting a set just looking for a better casting(something I like to do so I can research it). I really like the bare RHS but finding valves is a Problem! There heads use a 5.695 long Titanium valve for the 2.250 valve with a 5/16 stem and they have a 5.565 long Stainless 8mm 2.20 valve they sell for their Ls7 heads. Neither gives a tip length or manufacturer. Brodix or TFS seems to be easier to get parts for but lack the .220 raised runner of the RHS heads Ls7 heads. Buddy of mine @ Ferrea said he could do a custom stainless set for around $370 with the length but needed the tip length which is not given. Really forgot to ask about a Hollow stem which is what I was looking for not $1k in titanium valves, it would have been nice for a idea. Just something I like to do ask a ? and find the answer.
Last edited by Patron; 08-16-2018 at 07:09 PM.
08-16-2018, 07:04 PM
#62
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08-16-2018, 08:01 PM
#63
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Originally Posted by Patron
I know I'm just messing with you both......But here's the kicker The ETP 255 Cathedral heads or AKA the 245 Mast heads supplied enough air to support a big bore Lsx block and Lq4 revv'ing to 9800 rpm and ran 8's with both combinations same parts just different blocks. I like the Mast heads just for the valve angle if I had to choose. I figure there pretty much right as the TFS 235 head is a head that can work with pretty much any combination besides a bore under 4.0. It's just a good ole all around head N/a, or F.I. Not saying it's the best but overall it can go either way.....Add volume for more CFM and RPM or leave them as is. All heads need the CSA matched for rpm,cubic inches,weight, cam used etc....It's just a head that covers all the bases Darn Good too start Tq or HP. That doesn't include intakes Ls3 has that.
Side note I've been window shopping looking for better casting not that I'm going out and getting a set just looking for a better casting(something I like to do so I can research it). I really like the bare RHS but finding valves is a Problem! There heads use a 5.695 long Titanium valve for the 2.250 valve with a 5/16 stem and they have a 5.565 long Stainless 8mm 2.20 valve they sell for their Ls7 heads. Neither gives a tip length or manufacturer. Brodix or TFS seems to be easier to get parts for but lack the .220 raised runner of the RHS heads Ls7 heads. Buddy of mine @ Ferrea said he could do a custom stainless set for around $370 with the length but needed the tip length which is not given. Really forgot to ask about a Hollow stem which is what I was looking for not $1k in titanium valves, it would have been nice for a idea. Just something I like to do ask a ? and find the answer.
Side note I've been window shopping looking for better casting not that I'm going out and getting a set just looking for a better casting(something I like to do so I can research it). I really like the bare RHS but finding valves is a Problem! There heads use a 5.695 long Titanium valve for the 2.250 valve with a 5/16 stem and they have a 5.565 long Stainless 8mm 2.20 valve they sell for their Ls7 heads. Neither gives a tip length or manufacturer. Brodix or TFS seems to be easier to get parts for but lack the .220 raised runner of the RHS heads Ls7 heads. Buddy of mine @ Ferrea said he could do a custom stainless set for around $370 with the length but needed the tip length which is not given. Really forgot to ask about a Hollow stem which is what I was looking for not $1k in titanium valves, it would have been nice for a idea. Just something I like to do ask a ? and find the answer.
08-16-2018, 09:42 PM
#65
Oh no you don't Darth..........your not taking Tuskey's Thunder,not on my shift ....LMAO! That's why I stated you can make HP with any head brother. RPM and Compression don't care. Would it make more with a Mozez or DR head sure but @ a Cost $$$$.oo.
Those are not Ls3 nor Ls7 they are in FACT a 255cc runner Cathedral. At 1st I thought they were ETP CR5 255 cc heads. Greg Good did the work back in the day not to long ago. They were ETP then PI then sold to MAST by Cary. He being Cary now runs a CNC machine shop making anything you need Blocks,heads, anything needed. BTW Darth .........you should know me by now! I've got the cam specs. 280 ish on the intake side they didn't go into details (I can put the info in the simulator and get close to cam specs with what I already know of the combination to get close to intake & exhaust duration). Joe Honeycutt use to be a sponsor here : aka Ls1 joe that use to run 6 speed transmission shop here in the H. Messed over quite a few guys on here and now gone but still racing. Dude has over 3k in post and a few build threads of the engine but never gave exact details on the cam just listed 280 ish. Sound like a cam we spec'ed not to long ago. 282 @ .050
cam lol.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/manual-tr...l#post10604645
Tuskey's the cathedral guy here and no one gets his top spot......... absolutely Nobody. LOL! This one's for you Tuskey
lol.
The 1st engine was Lsx 418: 4.170 x 3.825 that went bad then, they went to the 403 Lq4 block added a 4 inch crank still ran 8's with either combination. You've had me looking for spec's as I knew I seen them somewhere(1hr later). Went thru pages & pages on Tech checked my history and found the little bit of info on cam specs on GM Hi Tech.
Those are not Ls3 nor Ls7 they are in FACT a 255cc runner Cathedral. At 1st I thought they were ETP CR5 255 cc heads. Greg Good did the work back in the day not to long ago. They were ETP then PI then sold to MAST by Cary. He being Cary now runs a CNC machine shop making anything you need Blocks,heads, anything needed. BTW Darth .........you should know me by now! I've got the cam specs. 280 ish on the intake side they didn't go into details (I can put the info in the simulator and get close to cam specs with what I already know of the combination to get close to intake & exhaust duration). Joe Honeycutt use to be a sponsor here : aka Ls1 joe that use to run 6 speed transmission shop here in the H. Messed over quite a few guys on here and now gone but still racing. Dude has over 3k in post and a few build threads of the engine but never gave exact details on the cam just listed 280 ish. Sound like a cam we spec'ed not to long ago. 282 @ .050
cam lol.https://ls1tech.com/forums/manual-tr...l#post10604645
post# 229
holy ****, with a 402? Is that with C5r heads or ETP canted valve?
and that 402 is that a 4in bore or a 4.125 bore?
holy ****, with a 402? Is that with C5r heads or ETP canted valve?
and that 402 is that a 4in bore or a 4.125 bore?
post # 230
4.006 bore ET 255 cathedral port heads
4.006 bore ET 255 cathedral port heads
lol.The 1st engine was Lsx 418: 4.170 x 3.825 that went bad then, they went to the 403 Lq4 block added a 4 inch crank still ran 8's with either combination. You've had me looking for spec's as I knew I seen them somewhere(1hr later). Went thru pages & pages on Tech checked my history and found the little bit of info on cam specs on GM Hi Tech.
The power lie in the quality machine work by Joe's alma mater, the School of Automotive Machinists, as well as the Dailey dry sump lubrication, custom solid roller cam from Comp, and Greg Good ported ETP 255cc heads. The severely milled heads enable a crazy 15.8:1 compression, which has Joe running Q16 and C25 fuel exclusively. Massive Xceldyne titanium 2.10 intake and 1.60 exhaust valves make good use of the 4.006-inch bore, while still clearing the Diamond pistons, even at over 280 degrees of duration thanks to the 11-degree valve angle. Jesel 1.75-ratio rocker arms command the PAC Racing double valve springs. The heads are topped off with a custom Beck sheet metal intake manifold with dual Accufab 2,000cfm 4-barrel throttle bodies that replaced the previous setup for the smaller motor.
Last edited by Patron; 08-16-2018 at 10:45 PM.
08-16-2018, 11:01 PM
#66
Crazy part is DBN has the same basic set up with a big bore short stroke and Mozez heads that made: Maybe it's hit a 1000 by now. Helluva thing is both used Mast heads.
post # 456
https://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1366417&page=31
That IS why I said find a combo close to your build add better parts and expect more HP. DBN took it and ran with it. Looks to have made around 50 more hp with better heads VS Ls1joe. The blueprints are out there you just gotta find your combination as someone most times has already built your combo before. There's nothing new under the sun. Just better parts for more HP.
418ci" DBN LSX 991 HP, 2.37 hp/ci .
post # 456
https://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1366417&page=31
That IS why I said find a combo close to your build add better parts and expect more HP. DBN took it and ran with it. Looks to have made around 50 more hp with better heads VS Ls1joe. The blueprints are out there you just gotta find your combination as someone most times has already built your combo before. There's nothing new under the sun. Just better parts for more HP.
Last edited by Patron; 08-16-2018 at 11:11 PM.
08-17-2018, 01:42 AM
#68
Naw I can't give the credit to Horace and Mast. I could but won't Cary is the man to be thanked as he designed Every Mast head they have besides the SRT8 heads which are only old C5r heads with minor tweeks for a larger valve with the same length valve. Smart move to buy Cary out. But Cary's the man who built the foundation, as well as all there product. All there stuff is from ETP & Performance Inductions, just updated and or tweaked a lot of stuff hasn't changed. I've said this once before I've read pretty every page on here YB and Speedtalk. LOL but true.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...er-head-2.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...w-numbers.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...er-head-2.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...w-numbers.html
Last edited by Patron; 08-17-2018 at 02:17 AM.
08-17-2018, 05:44 AM
#69
TECH Veteran
Patron, I like both. I'm actually running LS3 heads on top of my LS2 at the moment. I see it this way however in my book..... single plane intake does best with LS3/LS7 heads, dual plane does better with cathedral ports.
08-17-2018, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Tuskyz28
Patron, I like both. I'm actually running LS3 heads on top of my LS2 at the moment. I see it this way however in my book..... single plane intake does best with LS3/LS7 heads, dual plane does better with cathedral ports.
08-17-2018, 09:23 AM
#72
10 Second Club
Naw I can't give the credit to Horace and Mast. I could but won't Cary is the man to be thanked as he designed Every Mast head they have besides the SRT8 heads which are only old C5r heads with minor tweeks for a larger valve with the same length valve. Smart move to buy Cary out. But Cary's the man who built the foundation, as well as all there product. All there stuff is from ETP & Performance Inductions, just updated and or tweaked a lot of stuff hasn't changed. I've said this once before I've read pretty every page on here YB and Speedtalk. LOL but true.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...er-head-2.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...w-numbers.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...er-head-2.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...w-numbers.html
mast is awesome for sure
08-17-2018, 10:31 AM
#73
TECH Senior Member
Horace AND Mast? The guy's name is Horace Mast...
08-17-2018, 10:39 AM
#74
Darth Honestly I don't think that it makes a difference whether you use Mast Cathedral heads or Mast Ls3 ports add the Med bore Ls7 also. They will roughly make the same HP one will give a little more TQ @ a lower RPM and the other will make a hair more on the top end. Ls3 wins because of intake choices.
08-17-2018, 11:39 AM
#75
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Originally Posted by Patron
Darth ... Ls3 wins because of intake choices.
08-17-2018, 02:33 PM
#76
I’ve followed this thread a couple of days now and I’m a little curious, all this talk about different heads but nobody mention the AFR mongoose 260cc LS3, are AFR out in the cold nowadays?
Did a lot of dragracing back in the eighties and AFR was very good then, and around 15 years ago I used a set of SBC 195cc for my 350” and they performed very good as well.
I’m just about to buy a set of heads for my flatplane LS3 (destroked to 3”) and was looking at the AFR’s but can’t find anyone using them.
What’s your opinion?
Did a lot of dragracing back in the eighties and AFR was very good then, and around 15 years ago I used a set of SBC 195cc for my 350” and they performed very good as well.
I’m just about to buy a set of heads for my flatplane LS3 (destroked to 3”) and was looking at the AFR’s but can’t find anyone using them.
What’s your opinion?
08-17-2018, 02:56 PM
#77
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They are still very new. Pretty sure Tony Mamo developed them so they should be very good. Hope you planning to rev the **** out of it
08-17-2018, 02:59 PM
#78
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I’ve followed this thread a couple of days now and I’m a little curious, all this talk about different heads but nobody mention the AFR mongoose 260cc LS3, are AFR out in the cold nowadays?
Did a lot of dragracing back in the eighties and AFR was very good then, and around 15 years ago I used a set of SBC 195cc for my 350” and they performed very good as well.
I’m just about to buy a set of heads for my flatplane LS3 (destroked to 3”) and was looking at the AFR’s but can’t find anyone using them.
What’s your opinion?
Did a lot of dragracing back in the eighties and AFR was very good then, and around 15 years ago I used a set of SBC 195cc for my 350” and they performed very good as well.
I’m just about to buy a set of heads for my flatplane LS3 (destroked to 3”) and was looking at the AFR’s but can’t find anyone using them.
What’s your opinion?
a 260cc ls3 Head will want MAJOR rpm with a 3” stroke. Like 9000. If you’re wanting an ls3 port for a short stroke or smaller CI engine maybe check out masts small bore ls3 heads. 240 cc and still more flow than you’ll probably need
08-17-2018, 03:23 PM
#79
The engine will be in a street car (SL-C) and the only reason I’m building it is for the sound and high revs, don’t expect more than 530-540 fwhp but it’s a light car(2400lb)
Thanks for info, if anyone else has any dyno info, I’ll apreciate it.
Thanks for info, if anyone else has any dyno info, I’ll apreciate it.
08-17-2018, 03:27 PM
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You thought about putting that crank in a ls7 instead? Be a monster