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-   -   ls3 intake rocker failure has anyone seen anything like this before?? (https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iv-internal-engine/1906856-ls3-intake-rocker-failure-has-anyone-seen-anything-like-before.html)

j88l98irocz 09-16-2018 04:19 PM

ls3 intake rocker failure has anyone seen anything like this before??
 

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/ls1tech...2e21717a9.jpeg

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/ls1tech...917f9b314.jpeg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/ls1tech...6d947fe9a.jpeg
I’m kinda at a loss here guys ls3 crate long block, btr stage 4 cam, stock heads milled .030, stock head gaskets, ls3 rockers with trunion upgrade by Michigan motor sports, c5r timing chain, Johnson 2116 lifters, mahnton pushrods measured to correct length with added preload, stock intake. Made 506 wheel hp and ran like a beast for about 500 miles and now this rocker snapped and all the intake rockers have an indentation on the tips. Pistons were flycut and had 0.085” of ptvc and I don’t spin the engine over 66-6700.
Help

j88l98irocz 09-16-2018 04:21 PM

Pictures added

slogo 09-16-2018 04:46 PM

Did you send them your GM rockers to upgrade or did you just get the trunions and swap them yourself? Or buy assembled rockers from them?
1st thought is rockers weren't hardened correctly.
Hopefully you can flush all the debris out, put new rockers on, and hit the streets.

j88l98irocz 09-16-2018 05:15 PM


Originally Posted by slogo (Post 19969382)
Did you send them your GM rockers to upgrade or did you just get the trunions and swap them yourself? Or buy assembled rockers from them?
1st thought is rockers weren't hardened correctly.
Hopefully you can flush all the debris out, put new rockers on, and hit the streets.

l bought them complete from Michigan Motorsports.

j88l98irocz 09-16-2018 05:15 PM

But when I compare them to a factory rocker I have here the casting looks different.

tech@WS6store 09-16-2018 05:39 PM

Those are chinese rockers thats why.
You can clearly tell from the enlarged hole on the valve end.

j88l98irocz 09-16-2018 05:40 PM


Originally Posted by tech@WS6store (Post 19969412)
Those are chinese rockers thats why.
You can clearly tell from the enlarged hole on the valve end.

thanks for the info

tech@WS6store 09-16-2018 05:41 PM


Originally Posted by slogo (Post 19969382)
Did you send them your GM rockers to upgrade or did you just get the trunions and swap them yourself? Or buy assembled rockers from them?
1st thought is rockers weren't hardened correctly.
Hopefully you can flush all the debris out, put new rockers on, and hit the streets.

Investment cast rockers arent hardened. they are poured into a mold. Those are an inherently weak rocker because of that large hole in the casting snd break there often.

j88l98irocz 09-16-2018 07:16 PM


Originally Posted by tech@WS6store (Post 19969412)
Those are chinese rockers thats why.
You can clearly tell from the enlarged hole on the valve end.


Originally Posted by tech@WS6store (Post 19969415)
Investment cast rockers arent hardened. they are poured into a mold. Those are an inherently weak rocker because of that large hole in the casting snd break there often.

Is that how the factory ones are made?

tech@WS6store 09-16-2018 07:18 PM

The factory ones are investment cast also yes.
They are poured into a mold that originally had a wax duplicate of it, the wax melts out and the metal fills the void that is why they have that rough texture. Then they are machined.

Darth_V8r 09-16-2018 09:43 PM

OE suppliers have much more rigorous QC also. Typically.

G Atsma 09-16-2018 10:15 PM

It seems with so many things LS related, OE is best, especially when it comes to sensors and highly stressed small parts LIKE rocker arms. You don't want the short end of the stick with that kind of stuff. The LS is state of the art when it comes to pushrod OHV engines. The surrounding parts MUST live up to that...

pdxmotorhead 09-17-2018 12:10 AM

Just some more info,, I worked a consulting gig with a couple companies in CA,, while there I got to know a guy who was staying at the same hotel and worked for an engine parts, manufacturer. They had to move most of the manufacturing of their products overseas due to US regulations choking them to death.. Ane he learned a few hard lessons along the way.

In the process one of the main issues they came up with was the Asian companies that could do castings, would not police their metal supply. So one of the costs of having their billets cast and forged over there was they had to hire a bird dog to follow the metal, from the scrap processing through shipping back to the US for final machining.. They kept finding un-melted scrap like hardened bolts embedded in the billets when they tried to machine them, kept tearing up some expensive tooling.
I would bet that's part of the problem on the cast rockers.. Not enough material QC to insure consistent results of the final products.

ColeGTO 09-17-2018 12:58 PM

I'd say you got EXTREMELY LUCKY that all the valves are still in the head. By the looks of the broken rocker pressing on the retainer only, the locks should have come right out and dropped a valve into the cylinder.

Yes, you get what you pay for with off-shore components. Not that ALL are bad, but there is risk with ANY component like that.

Do yourself a favor and get a set of new OEM intake and exhaust rockers, a CHE trunion kit and install them yourself. All it takes is simple hand tools and a bench vise.

Here's some more info on the CHE kit.

https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...nion-kits.html

cmysix 09-17-2018 02:16 PM

Stock springs? what poundage? dual springs? seems like somethings to tight or heavy too much lift spring bottoming

ColeGTO 09-17-2018 02:22 PM


Originally Posted by cmysix (Post 19970054)
Stock springs? what poundage? dual springs? seems like somethings to tight or heavy too much lift spring bottoming

From the pics you can clearly see the BTR double springs and Titanium retainers

tech@WS6store 09-17-2018 04:18 PM


Originally Posted by cmysix (Post 19970054)
Stock springs? what poundage? dual springs? seems like somethings to tight or heavy too much lift spring bottoming

Its the casting design of that rocker. it has a very thin area due to the large oil hole drain opening.

KCS 09-18-2018 06:53 AM


Originally Posted by pdxmotorhead (Post 19969631)
So one of the costs of having their billets cast and forged over there was they had to hire a bird dog to follow the metal, from the scrap processing through shipping back to the US for final machining.

Thats actually what I do for a living, except my company serves the oil & gas industry. We’re usually known as Third Party Inspectors.

FWIW, I happened to have an OEM LS3 style intake rocker to compare. This came off a stock GM engine that I installed the aftermarket trunnion kit on.


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/ls1tech...7390a2e33.jpeg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/ls1tech...e5c6b67f2.jpeg


j88l98irocz 09-18-2018 07:44 AM


Originally Posted by cmysix (Post 19970054)
Stock springs? what poundage? dual springs? seems like somethings to tight or heavy too much lift spring bottoming

btr .660 pushrod length is correct I just double checked all the measurements. It appears the junk rockers just can’t handle the pressure

j88l98irocz 09-18-2018 07:49 AM


Originally Posted by ColeGTO (Post 19970008)
I'd say you got EXTREMELY LUCKY that all the valves are still in the head. By the looks of the broken rocker pressing on the retainer only, the locks should have come right out and dropped a valve into the cylinder.

Yes, you get what you pay for with off-shore components. Not that ALL are bad, but there is risk with ANY component like that.

Do yourself a favor and get a set of new OEM intake and exhaust rockers, a CHE trunion kit and install them yourself. All it takes is simple hand tools and a bench vise.

Here's some more info on the CHE kit.

https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...nion-kits.html

l agree I got lucky if it would have dropped a valve there probably wouldn’t have been much to salvage. My limiter is set at 6700 and I bumped it twice hammering on the car, after I hit limiter the car developed a miss. I ordered new rockers from the Chevy dealer yesterday and that trunion kit you linked. Thanks!


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