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TFS 245 vs. TFS 260

 
Old 03-03-2019, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Smokey B View Post
Not him..į
If you are talking 260 tfs heads and 400 cfm? Ask any Good porter whats needed? You will have your answer. Listed the answer though. The thing is the 305 should make more hp with a better intake and more RPM (area is hp). Non of the builds listed would make more Avg Hp than the one you said you read. So 820 with a CID intake would equal what roughly with a MSD 770fwhp pump gas under 12.0 compression? Sounds like a 454 build. As far as dyno and or track times, google z06 dyno runs or ET's with stock ported heads & better intake (milled for compression like Most of these higher Hp builds ). Seems odd that factory heads do the same numbers listed for a aftermarket head with custom work (620+rwhp and 9's for a et slip.) If the valve guides weren't a big problem the factory would have a great head. Isn't there a 620rwhp Ls7 with ported factory heads & stock intake ls7 in a Monte Carlo. Not hating but from whats said and read Mamo Heads are the golden standard for Ls7 heads for some, and i think not.
wheres your proof that i asked for? im not sayin they are gods gift, im trying to get info......nobody ever said the 305 would lose to the 265, spin them to 7500 im sure the 305 will start to do noticeably better, and why are you even talking intakes? these are mostly msd intakes i showed you, **** im sure a sheet metal would have done 660 easily. o wait but thats easy on a 265 port. we are saying the smaller port does just as good or better. and uhhhhh yea did you not notice a 1.6 sixty foot? lol he still made 142 mph.....really just post me a link of something at this point, idc if its a honda.....i want something other than your words posted.....
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Old 03-03-2019, 10:54 PM
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What would it be like if we all shared the same views? Would it be just as crazy as a 420 cfm head with a 370 cfm limited induction system?
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Old 03-03-2019, 11:19 PM
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checking back here often with nothing to back up......you simply are just opinionated.
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Old 03-03-2019, 11:35 PM
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How many classes are Tonyís heads winning?

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Old 03-03-2019, 11:53 PM
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Google search c6 z06. No need to go on. Bump up the compression with ported heads & better intake. Do a google search for dyno time. To many listed for either 600+ rwhp & 9 second passes. Many port programs out here.
https://www.corvetteonline.com/featu...econd-n-a-z06/
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Old 03-04-2019, 01:14 AM
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This guy's starting to sound more like ol' Patron with every post...
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Old 03-04-2019, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by big hammer View Post
How many classes are Tonyís heads winning?

lets,be real here, nobody competes with his heads, but if there was an average torque competition they could probably fair pretty well.

my closing statement is his heads are probably one of the top 3 ls7 heads available that can break 650 pretty regularly, (the ones i posted were usually missing something to prevent that, baby cam, exhaust etc) without sacrificing any low end "STREET" numbers. I don't know what the other 2 are.

I never said they were a race head
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Old 03-04-2019, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Smokey B View Post
Google search c6 z06. No need to go on. Bump up the compression with ported heads & better intake. Do a google search for dyno time. To many listed for either 600+ rwhp & 9 second passes. Many port programs out here.
https://www.corvetteonline.com/featu...econd-n-a-z06/
lol you share a post that shares no head info trying to win a head disagreement. Also the 9 second vette i posted is a completely inexperienced driver. Did you not listen to his shifts or his launch? Also the other one had 325 worth of weight reduction, idk is that about .15 seconds right there? Unknown if the mamo guys have any, probably not because most mamo head users are street cars

my argument was never 600hp, any decent head is capable, my argument was 600 with no low end torque or driveability issues, which can be contributed by the larger ls7 ports programs.

Last edited by Floorman279; 03-04-2019 at 06:51 AM.
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Old 03-04-2019, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by G Atsma View Post
This guy's starting to sound more like ol' Patron with every post...
Itís him. Doesnít go by Patron on YB, so how would he know whoís posts heís read...plus he always likes to argue about Tonyís stuff with me.
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Old 03-04-2019, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Che70velle View Post
My advice on the subject is to purchase the entire top end as a system from one shop. They will understand how to make the setup work as a combination. Nobody understands what makes their particular head work well as the one producing the port program, as these guys spend a lot of time on their individual setup. My MMS 265ís for instance, Tony spent over a year designing and tweaking the ports and building the CNC program. Let that sink in for a moment...over a year. He also spent months perfecting the porting of his MSD intakes, so that they work as a system, not a crutch to one another. Tony understands driveability which is why he keeps his ports small (CSA) on his heads, at only 265ccís yet they flow 412 cfm. That means crazy high velocity which helps cylinder fill at low lift, therefore driveability. Nothing worse for driveability than a big lazy intake port. Great for high rpm racing, but a slouch on the street. Tony also offers a package with the Brodix casting, which as Darth mentioned, is a great head.
I'm reaching a place to where I'm starting to think the valve job may be more important than all these other considerations. I've struggled a lot with the CFM vs port size dlimena, and Tony's really do throw a wrench into things. There are only a few heads out there that crack 410 cfm at .700 lift. Tony's 265's and Brodix BR7 273 come to the front of the list. Like you said, there are larger port heads out there that don't reach the flow numbers. Is flow the end-all-be-all? No. Is it a good datapoint? yes. It does indicate the potential for the heads to make power.

LazerLemonTA GPI build has my wheels spinning a little. Ported stock castings, and I know they don't flow as great on the bench per se. He made 562 SAE, 576 uncorrected at 7000 RPM, and likely will run 9's NA. It's not like you can take a stock LS3 casting and suddenly make it flow 400 CFM, and these don't. So Gwatney must have a killer valve job. Similarly, i suspect Tony's valve job is a big part of the reason he gets 410 out of a 265 port. IIRC, he always targeted 1.45+ CFM / cc intake port. To your point, though, I think Lazer got the whole set up from one vendor like you said, and nobody will argue that the combination is not more important than the sum of the parts.

But also, you look at the gen4 6.2 truck motor. it makes plenty of torque (417) and is very streetable. It just uses less cam - a little 198/209. Granted there is some VVT magic in there, but the heads still make torque. There is nothing magical about a cathedral port shape or anything. It was a design compromise due to the location of the intake pushrod. The port was necessarily narrower, so they gave it a roof. Offset intake rocker fixed that problem. So maybe the trick is to get the best heads you can find and then cam to the desired RPM?
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Old 03-04-2019, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by big hammer View Post
How many classes are Tonyís heads winning?

Tony doesnít market his products as a race head, but as a street head. Plus itís too new to the public. Give it time however. He does own 15 dyno records across the country on top known dynoís, but dynoís are wish washy, and unpredictable.
I only brought up Tonyís stuff to mention the package part of any combination. If I were building a race engine, Iíd go AllPro heads. But for the street, which is what we are discussing in this thread, Tonyís LS7 top end package is pretty hard to beat. Many guys out there with 650+ and Josh B. hit 700 with his on his 454. Biggest problem currently is finding an intake that will flow enough air to get these big engines what they need at 7500+
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Old 03-04-2019, 08:27 AM
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Guys have hit around 800 hp with Stock CI ls3’s and ported stock heads
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Old 03-04-2019, 09:04 AM
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My heads are 264cc... and flow 400cfm... 11-degree LS3.

We'll see how they perform.
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Old 03-04-2019, 11:00 AM
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every head discussion seems to get off track these days....im guilty of this as well......
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Old 03-04-2019, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by JakeFusion View Post
My heads are 264cc... and flow 400cfm... 11-degree LS3.

We'll see how they perform.
11* ls3ís are pretty wicked tbh
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Old 03-04-2019, 12:39 PM
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The raised port floor of the LS7 is still going to be the best. RHS raised runner LS7 heads were supposedly the best around, but had quality issues from what I read. You can't get your hands on them anymore.

I think ALLPRO also use a raised runner.
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Old 03-04-2019, 01:28 PM
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Are those Liberty casting 11 degree ls3 heads? If so they are made by some great people. Wish they did a Ls7 for the same cost..

Darth_V8r
So maybe the trick is to get the best heads you can find and then cam* to the desired RPM? Nobody will argue that the combination is not more important than the sum of the parts.
I can go with that.
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It’s him. Doesn’t go by Patron on YB, so how would he know who’s posts he’s read...plus he always likes to argue about Tony’s stuff with me.
I said that I meet him on YB, goes by DarkMatter there. The subject came up about who has the Best Ls7 heads on YB, Tony's name came up. So I sent DarkMatter a pm. Was told and shown a story (thread below). Said it's not rocket science. Said he knows and has talked to a lot of the upper echelon head porters. Some porters do larger ports vs others but all equal major hp IF cam correctly. Large Port or Smaller port! GM sold a lot of larger runner Ls3 heads yet still had great factory TQ rating. They must know something on camming for a larger runner, same rules apply for any larger port.
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Biggest problem currently is finding an intake that will flow enough air to get these big engines what they need at 7500+
Best one I've seen for the cost is the Sniper for a lower profile and hood clearance. Bigger TB is needed, 102mm isn't going to cut it with shorter straight shot 4 inch runners. Supply and demand. If it's not made what's a motor head to do?

https://ls1tech.com/forums/conversio...-102mm-tb.html


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The raised port floor of the LS7 is still going to be the best. RHS raised runner LS7 heads were supposedly the best around, but had quality issues from what I read. You can't get your hands on them anymore.
I think ALLPRO also use a raised runner.
I believe your correct. The RHS Ls7 aren't worth nothing anymore from what was read. If valve length is the major factor for a raised runner then there are few. Is 5.1 inches a stock ls7 valve length? They have a few 5.4 inch standard length Ls7 valve heads, would this be a raised runner?

Last edited by Smokey B; 03-04-2019 at 01:40 PM.
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Old 03-04-2019, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by G Atsma View Post
This guy's starting to sound more like ol' Patron with every post...
​​​​​​At least it's not King Talon or 8Lug

Originally Posted by Smokey B View Post
Why get a 420 cfm head with a 370 cfm induction? Get a 370 cfm head it's only as good as the part that sits on top (intake).
That's how I think of it too more or less.

1) Figure out what you want to do with the car or truck.

2) Pick the intake manifold first and build the choice of cylinder heads and rest of the engine follows from that.

Several outstanding head porters that aren't widely known by the forum. One does an LS road race head with a ~240cc intake port that moves 380+ cfm. There is a lot of cool stuff that's beyond my daily driver hotrod budget...​​If I had funds to race, a CID intake and set of ALL Pro's would be on my shopping list.

Last edited by 99 Black Bird T/A; 03-04-2019 at 03:18 PM.
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Old 03-07-2019, 11:24 AM
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Guys, just stick to the GM LS3 or LS7 heads. (Unless you are running high boost then get LSA or LS9 heads)
Why waste your money on those expensive aftermarket heads when they wont be much better?
A CNC LS3 and LS7 will make crazy power and plentiful torque.
Plus top end power is unmatched by anything else out there.
As long as you use the right bore size everything will be golden.
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Old 03-07-2019, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by 99 Black Bird T/A View Post


​​​​​​At least it's not King Talon or 8Lug
Yep, it could be a lot worse... gotta count your blessings..
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