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H'what? 427 build or something

 
Old 06-12-2019, 10:25 AM
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Default H'what? 427 build or something

I guess I should start a build thread. Still waiting on parts. But I have some.

Let's get to the good stuff... build list:

Engine
Dart SHP LS Block 4.125" Bore finished by Dart
Compstar 4340 Forged 4.000" Stroke CCW Crankshaft w/24X Reluctor
Compstar 4340 Forged 6.125” H-Beam Rods w/ARP2000 Bolts
Diamond 2618 Forged 4.125" Pistons w/-2cc Reliefs (11.85:1 CR)
Diamond Pro-Select Gas Nitrided 1.2-1.2-3.0mm Ring Package
Trend .185" Wall Wrist Pins
King XP-Series MB5777XP Main Bearings for Dart SHP
King XP-Series CR807XPN Rod Bearings
SPS Haymaker LS3 264cc 6-Bolt Cylinder Heads 70cc Chambers
Ferrea 2.125" Intake and 1.60" Exhaust Valves
PAC 1209X Dual Valve Spring Kit w/Ti Retainers
Cam Motion LLR 247/259 .688"/.671" 113.5+4.5 LSA Camshaft
Cam Motion 3/8" Diameter .135" Wall Hardened Chrome-Moly Pushrods
Cam Motion Solid Roller Lifters (Tie Bar Style w/Axle Oiling)
T&D 2455 Shaft Mount 1.7:1 Roller Rocker Arms for SPS Heads
Cometic 4.150" Bore .040" Compressed MLX 6-Bolt Head Gaskets
ARP 6-Bolt Head Stud Kit for Dart Block
Cloyes C5R Roller Billet Adjustable Timing Set w/LS2 Dampener
Melling 10294 Low Volume Oil Pump
Dart SHP Windage Tray
Holley 4" Stroke (302-3) Trap-Door Baffled Oil Pan
GM LS2 Waterpump & SLP 160 Degree Thermostat
BeCool Aluminum Radiator
ATI Super Damper SFI Harmonic Balancer (10% Underdrive)
FIC Flow-Matched Bosch 47bs Injectors & FAST Billet Fuel Rails
Racetronix Aeromotive 340 Fuel Pump w/Upgraded Wiring Harness
Firecore50 Spark Plug Wires & NGK TR6 Spark Plugs
Holley Tall LS Valve Covers & Delphi LS7 Coils
MAD Ported FAST LSXR 102 LS3 Med Runner Intake w/NW 102 TB
FTP 104mm Lid w/4" Silicone Coupler w/Buick GN Air Intake Sensor
Kooks 1-7/8" Stainless Longtube Race Headers
Kooks 3" True Dual Exhaust w/DynoMax UltraFlo SS Mufflers
Norris Motorsports Billet Aluminum PCV Catch Can
Kurt Urban Vapor Vent System
Hayden Power Steering Cooler
Katech Billet Belt Tensioner & Gates RPM V-Belt

Drivetrain
CircleD 2E 4000 Stall Torque Converter
Hughes HP-4004X SFI Flexplate
FLT Level 6 4L65E Automatic Transmission
B&M 70266 Supercooler Trans Cooler w/-6AN Fittings and Braided Hoses
Driveshaft Shop 3.5" Aluminum Driveshaft w/Sonnax Forged Yoke
Strange 12-Bolt 33-Spline Rearend w/3.73 Gears & Eaton HD Posi

And pictures for the things I have so far.










Last edited by JakeFusion; Yesterday at 10:00 AM.
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Old 06-12-2019, 10:33 AM
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Damn. That thing is going to be more fun than a redheaded bridesmaid.

Nice work.
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Old 06-12-2019, 10:52 AM
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Isn’t that oil pump meant for the Dart blocks?
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Old 06-12-2019, 11:11 AM
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And the LSX... it has priority main oiling too.
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Old 06-12-2019, 11:15 AM
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Damn, that's going to be a nice build!! I assume you're going to stay N/A?

I have a very noob question regarding head gasket:

Cometic 4.200" Bore .040" Compressed MLS Head Gaskets

I noticed most go for .040" (heck, even I did) - aside from higher compression with a .036" gasket, is there a reason I don't see many people using a .036" gasket? Anything obvious as to why one wouldn't want to run one of these? On my engine rebuild, I opted for slightly more compression, so I ordered a .036" - now i'm wondering if I should be wary of something.

Don't mean to hi-jack, learning experience.

Thanks,
Andy
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Old 06-12-2019, 11:18 AM
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Damn Jake,
That is one crazy build.
I like the parts very much however I have some questions.

1. Why are using an lsx block na?
You have the weight and heat penalty plus I was reading that these blocks don't breathe as well as the aluminium something to do with the valleys or something.
2. Why are you using a GM LS2 water pump?
I changed mine because it wasn't flowing enough on idle and my engine was overheating on hot days.
You will have more heat than me because of your higher power level and the cast iron material of the engine.
3. What heads are you using?
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Old 06-12-2019, 11:39 AM
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1) LSX has bay-to-bay breathing. It's built like an LS2/LS7 block. Just iron. If I can find an LS2 block in good shape and get Darton Sleeves in that for less, I'd go that route. The Dart SHP is less but doesn't have the windage stuff the LSX block has. Which is important on an NA higher RPM motor. And I'm not going to dry sump... so. Vacuum pump I may do, but it looks like I'd have to remove the A/C. And no. That's not happening. So, I can get a fully CNC machined LSX block from GM for what I consider to be a good price. And that's what I plan to do. Just needs finish honing.

2) LS2 water pump is where I'm starting. I already have it. I'll see if I have issues. I can always go to a Meziere or something? Would an LS7 pump be better? I don't know. I have the big BeCool radiator now. So I stay around 195 in the summer with the A/C on. Iron will run hotter. As long as it's under 220 I don't much care.

3) SPS Haymakers. 2.165" Ferrea valve option. Flow 400cfm on a 4.150" bore. 11-degree LS3.

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Old 06-12-2019, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by AndyTA View Post
Damn, that's going to be a nice build!! I assume you're going to stay N/A?

I have a very noob question regarding head gasket:

Cometic 4.200" Bore .040" Compressed MLS Head Gaskets

I noticed most go for .040" (heck, even I did) - aside from higher compression with a .036" gasket, is there a reason I don't see many people using a .036" gasket? Anything obvious as to why one wouldn't want to run one of these? On my engine rebuild, I opted for slightly more compression, so I ordered a .036" - now i'm wondering if I should be wary of something.

Don't mean to hi-jack, learning experience.

Thanks,
Andy
The K1 combo I ordered... the pistons are .005" in the hole @ 9.240" deck. So I could have gone .036" for a .041" quench, but the reverse dome pistons actually slide up into the combustion chamber a tiny bit. So I end up with something closer to a .040" quench pad distance with them with the .040" gasket and .005" in the hole piston. The .036" would have been a little too close, I feel. I'm going for 7500 in this with a fairly heavy piston ~ 500g. I wanted there to be a little more room for error. And I'm still right around that .035-.040" optimal quench area.
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Old 06-12-2019, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by JakeFusion View Post
1) LSX has bay-to-bay breathing. It's built like an LS2/LS7 block. Just iron. If I can find an LS2 block in good shape and get Darton Sleeves in that for less, I'd go that route. The Dart SHP is less but doesn't have the windage stuff the LSX block has. Which is important on an NA higher RPM motor. And I'm not going to dry sump... so. Vacuum pump I may do, but it looks like I'd have to remove the A/C. And no. That's not happening. So, I can get a fully CNC machined LSX block from GM for what I consider to be a good price. And that's what I plan to do. Just needs finish honing.

2) LS2 water pump is where I'm starting. I already have it. I'll see if I have issues. I can always go to a Meziere or something? Would an LS7 pump be better? I don't know. I have the big BeCool radiator now. So I stay around 195 in the summer with the A/C on. Iron will run hotter. As long as it's under 220 I don't much care.

3) SPS Haymakers. 2.165" Ferrea valve option. Flow 400cfm on a 4.150" bore. 11-degree LS3.
I have my doubts with the water pump.
There are a lot of things working against it.
Even with a high end radiator and hi flow thermostat, this was still happening.
It was revealed that it was a problem because during hot days, when the car would idle or be moving slowly in traffic,the temperature would creep up till it got on the red.
As soon as the vehicle was moving and reached around 30-40 mph, the temperature would go all the way down to where it should be which obviously signifies that water pump is not flowing enough when the engine is not spinning at a high enough rpm.
I had to get the mezeire wp319s water pump but the high flow version. It flows 55gpm at all times and doesn't work with engine rpm's.
These are meant to be the best water pumps money can buy.
It is built like a tank,
This should also free up some hp and help the engine rev quicker too.
I also ended up purchasing an oil cooler kit along with an oil thermostat, adapters etc from improved racing. I ended up going for the 20 row cooler.
And I also purchased a power steering cooler kit too

These are all currently being fitted to my engine along with everything else and I will surely write up a detailed report of my thoughts and findings with my engine.
Try the LS2 pump, but don't be surprised if it doesn't work for you.
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Old 06-12-2019, 03:51 PM
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Looks like a really nice list of parts.

What are your goals for the engine and use for the car? Strip only or is this going to be more tame for street?

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Old 06-12-2019, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by bortous View Post
I have my doubts with the water pump.
There are a lot of things working against it.
Even with a high end radiator and hi flow thermostat, this was still happening.
It was revealed that it was a problem because during hot days, when the car would idle or be moving slowly in traffic,the temperature would creep up till it got on the red.
As soon as the vehicle was moving and reached around 30-40 mph, the temperature would go all the way down to where it should be which obviously signifies that water pump is not flowing enough when the engine is not spinning at a high enough rpm.
I had to get the mezeire wp319s water pump but the high flow version. It flows 55gpm at all times and doesn't work with engine rpm's.
These are meant to be the best water pumps money can buy.
It is built like a tank,
This should also free up some hp and help the engine rev quicker too.
I also ended up purchasing an oil cooler kit along with an oil thermostat, adapters etc from improved racing. I ended up going for the 20 row cooler.
And I also purchased a power steering cooler kit too

These are all currently being fitted to my engine along with everything else and I will surely write up a detailed report of my thoughts and findings with my engine.
Try the LS2 pump, but don't be surprised if it doesn't work for you.
Those are all good points. I've been thinking of the Mezeire just for the 7-10HP it gives. So, I may go that route.


Originally Posted by Esser View Post
Looks like a really nice list of parts.

What are your goals for the engine and use for the car? Strip only or is this going to be more tame for street?
It'll be a street car that goes to the drag strip once in a while. It has a lot of creature comforts I plan to keep... big stereo, A/C, etc. I don't plan to gut it. I just wanted more power everywhere.
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Old 06-12-2019, 05:17 PM
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Jake, can you breakdown the Kurt Urban Vapor Vent system ?
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Old 06-12-2019, 05:48 PM
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Likely it is the same as summit kit
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Old 06-12-2019, 07:26 PM
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Nice parts list! No fooling around.

On that statement you made about a vacuum pump & maybe having to take A/C off for it. A GZ pump will fit with the A/C accumulator there. Just not with the factory accumulator bracket. You must remove that & the accumulator will move enough for the pump to fit. Then as I just made a custom bracket for it to hold it solid. At first the A/C line was contacting VP pulley. As they give no instruction for any of this but you can make it work.
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Old 06-12-2019, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by SoFla01SSLookinstok View Post
Nice parts list! No fooling around.

On that statement you made about a vacuum pump & maybe having to take A/C off for it. A GZ pump will fit with the A/C accumulator there. Just not with the factory accumulator bracket. You must remove that & the accumulator will move enough for the pump to fit. Then as I just made a custom bracket for it to hold it solid. At first the A/C line was contacting VP pulley. As they give no instruction for any of this but you can make it work.
Have any pictures of how your bracket is? I was looking at the gz pump but didn't want to lose ac.

Jake, solid build man.
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Old 06-12-2019, 10:05 PM
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Bout time you started this thread. No doubt it will be stout. What kind of numbers are you expecting?
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Old 06-12-2019, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by SoFla01SSLookinstok View Post
Nice parts list! No fooling around.

On that statement you made about a vacuum pump & maybe having to take A/C off for it. A GZ pump will fit with the A/C accumulator there. Just not with the factory accumulator bracket. You must remove that & the accumulator will move enough for the pump to fit. Then as I just made a custom bracket for it to hold it solid. At first the A/C line was contacting VP pulley. As they give no instruction for any of this but you can make it work.
That's good to know. If I can get the GZ pump to work then using a 5.3L block and Darton sleeves might be the better setup.

Originally Posted by Che70velle View Post
Bout time you started this thread. No doubt it will be stout. What kind of numbers are you expecting?
On an engine dyno... honestly 700+ is what I'll be aiming for. These heads have done 765 on a 427 with a hydraulic roller for Thompson and a Sniper with less compression. So, the FAST will eat up some, and the cam is smaller (but not by much), but it's a bigger motor with more compression. Combined with a solid roller, which seems to be worth 30HP over equivalent hydraulic profiles typically, and that 750+ feels doable with proper windage control here. So 700 would feel a little underwhelming, and 750 would be awesome.

If I split and say 725... chassis dyno usually shows a 100HP loss. So that would be 625 to the tire through a 6-speed. Sounds about right. Through a fairly efficient converter (96% last I logged it) would put me right at 600 to the tire through the auto.
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Old 06-12-2019, 11:18 PM
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750 is very doable for your build.
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Old 06-12-2019, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Tuskyz28 View Post
Jake, can you breakdown the Kurt Urban Vapor Vent system ?


It's basically just the four steam ports brought to the brick here so it's higher than the radiator. And then as it condenses, it flows downhill. Nice little bracket for use on the FAST intake manifolds to tie it all together.
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Old 06-12-2019, 11:50 PM
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