Darth_V8r

iTrader: (4)

How many are using the mass of the spring when calculating spring specs?

Here's an analogy. You put more fuel in an airplane, then you need to put more-er fuel in the plane to account for the extra weight.

grubinski

When you calculate the sprung/unsprung weight in suspension tuning due to the mass of the suspension springs, you only use half the mass... the part of the spring that touches the car doesn't move in respect to the car. The part of the spring in contact with the suspension is moving just as much as the suspension is. The part of the spring in the middle is only moving half as much. So on average, it's assumed that half of the mass of the spring is moving.

The same consideration would probably apply to valve springs. The part at the retainer end is seeing full valve motion. The part touching the head isn't moving.

None of this is as interesting or fun as talking about cam selection.

Corona

If you want the facts of.... contact

3vperformance

Also YB member, EFI University would be another....
Chris U or Straub, and the FTI guy...
Spintron testing?

Not saying anyone's wrong but your eluding to what a race guy does....in setting up a Race Valve train...
ER as well..

KCS

iTrader: (20)

I don’t know about the airplane analogy, but I do know the mass of a spring can be used to determine the natural frequency of a spring which can give you an idea of when the spring will surge. Lighter is generally better.

Corona

Joe Hornick racing Valve springs 🤫 is a amazing group who design and Ask springs of PAC aka: custom LSX springs.... They would and should be able to Answer Any question about a valve spring.

Special needs and Answers pertaining to 👍

Corona

Guys like 3v Performance come in handy if you've got a High end setup ....spin it on the Spintron.


Ed Curtis of FTI... Duh 🙄

Corona

The new Age Lobe Technology is making it so much Easier on springs and valve spring Life = Less spring weight/mass needed

🤔
There are "many" comp cams Low Shock lobes...
Hydraulic and Solid Roller when considering a new cam and designing it yourself...

Corona

Sorry but if Anyone finds the Entire Low Shock lobes list and it's spec's ... please send them to me...
I've only seen the 3 letter alphabet representing each Particular lobe whether hydraulic or solid...
There's Alot of them 🤫

Free Hp....

G Atsma

I think "low shock lobes" are the biggest advance in cam tech in 20 years or more...

Corona

LST Lobe Families

Hydraulic Roller

MGZ, MGH, MBZ, LPM, LSD, XLD & LSO

Endurance Solid Rollers

LGW, LGA, LIH, LHW, LXW, LDW, LKD, LXE

Drag Race Solid Rollers

LMS, LMX, MMO, MMX, OLM, MBW, MST, MJN, MJW, MJO, MDW, MNP, MFP, MTW, MSL, LXC, MSM

Corona

G you know I cheated in class...
just read that you gotta get a email with the Lobes sent through Email from Comp Cams...read on YB guy says he has them and how he got them..

Corona

https://www.enginelabs.com/engine-te...l-block-chevy/

Corona

He (Jonathan) didn't give me a list but we matched my cam with a .420 Low Shock lobe & grind Number...
I'll ask the YB guy also.

😉

Che70velle

iTrader: (6)

Pretty much, only the Uber elite, mega cubic dollar, endurance type build/teams are worrying about spring mass, and they are investing huge money with spintrons, attempting to analyze exactly what spring mass is doing or not doing. KCS hit on harmonics (valve spring) which is tunable with spring mass, and/or spring wire shape (Ovate or round) and spring damper design also. I have to believe that GM engineers learned a lot about mass from spintron testing, which is why they went to the beehive spring for the LS platform. Of course a conical spring is also a fairly new design which has a specific purpose. The coils of a conical spring differ in diameter and spacing, which results in a progressive frequency that provides a natural dampening effect.
For me personally, spring mass isn’t something I consider when setting up heads. My goal is to put enough spring into the setup to effectively control the valve at max rpm, considering all parameters, and nothing more. I don’t mind running Ti retainers on the street, which many here on Tech refuse to do, which helps a little also.

Mickyinks

Ive run titanium retainers for the last 8 yrs. Why would you chose not to?

G Atsma

You've been lucky. Ti retainers are not as durable as steel, many times getting brittle and failing.

LLLosingit

iTrader: (4)

8 yrs doesn't tell the whole story, How it's used and how often makes a huge difference. If it's a daily driver seeing lots of miles then it's a probably a good idea to change spring and retainers well before that. On a serious race engine they life expectancy is counted in hours/laps/passes depending on application and they are changed accordingly.

G Atsma, I think the problem is people think that it's ok to run springs/retainers for years and don't consider them a maintenance item, They were never meant to last the life of a street engine. That leads to people saying running them on the street is a bad idea. It's kind of like people saying you shouldn't run a solid lifter on the street, It can be done and be reliable if you maintain them.

G Atsma

Lots of good common sense (getting to be a rare commodity...) here. Though, it is known that there are now steel retainers that are much lighter than before, while retaining the inherent strength steel is known for. Even though some might consider them a maintenance item in an extreme performance situation, the fact that millions of cars run their entire lives on the same springs/retainers to no ill effect speaks to the durability of the steel parts. I think in your average street-driven vehicle, the difference seen between titanium and steel retainers is negligible. Total effort setups, by all means use titanium.

Mickyinks

Ive learnt that with my set up i have to change springs once a yr, retainers get changed with springs. Also i bought a new set of crower solid lifters so that when i change springs i will swap out lifters and send the set i took out for a rebuild, itll save a month of downtime waiting for lifters.
So i shouldnt have a problem with retainers then????

G Atsma

Not if you're changing then annually....