fastGBcamaro

iTrader: (10)

Just thought I would share my experience with everyone here, and potentially save someone else from going through the same thing I did. First off I decided to pull the old LS1 out and replace it with a 413 cid LS2. I used an Eagle 4.1'' crank, Compstar rods, and Ross pistons. With a set of TSP ported L92 heads the combo was at 11.1:1 comp. I dropped the engine in and had it conservatively tuned. Brought it to the track, but but ended up snapping a driveshaft and cracking the tailshaft housing on the t56. Put the car away for the winter, and installed a th400 with a Yank 4000 stall. At the time I was running a set of 4.30's that worked well with the 6 speed, but knew it wouldn't be very friendly with the 3 speed. So I bought a set of 3.73's but before I could have them installed, I got imaptient and decided to take the car to the track (bad idea). I drive my car to the track, turning 4000 rpms down the highway for the entire 20 min drive. I get to the track and make 2 passes, but after the second the car completely shuts off and the starter can barely turn the engine over. I knew imediately that somthing was majorly f'ed. (On a side note it still ran 11.3 with a very badly hurt motor) I guessed it was a spun rod bearing, but didn't know for sure. About 2 weeks ago I finally pulled the engine out and brought it to my engine builder to have him look at it. We found a spun rod bearing like we had guessed and also found that every main bearing had been starved for oil and had completly stuck to the crank. The bearings litterally had to be scraped off the crank. We also found one collapsed lifter. What we guess probably happened is that turning 4,000 rpms on the highway with the Mellings high volume oil pump turning like crazy causing it to pump all of the oil out of the pan to the top end of the motor, thus starving the bearings of oil.
The good news is that the crank was able to be turned and it wasn't bent at all from the extreme heat. The engine was line bored, and the rods were all resized and reasembled with all new bearings. This time around I am using a ported LS6 pump, LS7 lifters, and I will def. be swapping out the gears before I drive it on the highway. We also drilled a hole in each lifter tray, and my engine builder went a little higher with the clearances on the main bearings to allow a little more room for oil. I plan on dropping the engien back in this weekend and having it ready to race by the end August.
Besides what I mentioned is there anything I could do to prevent this from happening again?

JoeyGC5

iTrader: (24)

We learn from our mistakes. Good thing you were able to save most of the components.

Black02SLPSS

iTrader: (5)

higher capacity oil pan or maybe a dry sump set up?

1.8t

So is this a feasible theory of the oil pump pumping all of the oil to the top end? I didn't think a ported Melling oil pump bumped oil pressure enough to do that??

pillboxesghost

iTrader: (28)

It's not the oil pressure --- it's the volume of oil the high capacity (I assume) Melling pump is capable of moving.

He pumped all the oil out of the pan (very high RPM's at the track) and the bearings starved during the short time it was all up in the engine.

02NBMWS6

iTrader: (22)

so according to your theory he just cant go to the track then? I dont get how it couldve sucked the pan dry at 4k rpms, or how it sucked it dry at 6k plus for 12 or 13 seconds. It's only 6 quarts after all.

So the Melling's cant be raced with then? I think something else may have happened

See5

iTrader: (53)

Well, you should not need a high volume pump or a bigger pan, yet that may not the cause. I might guess fit of the mains but hard to tell. Easy oiling insurance is an Accusump.

veee8

iTrader: (40)

The damage was probably done on the way to the track. Sustained high rpms pumped the oil to the top, and it couldn't find its way down to the pan. Those Melling pumps move a lot of oil. Can't hardly go wrong with a properly set up ported stocker.

02NBMWS6

iTrader: (22)

so how long can a motor live with a melling pump at 4k plus?

veee8

iTrader: (40)

Well it is hard to give an exact figure, oil drainback is factor. But the OP said the drive was 20 min at 4000 rpm sounds like it was a bit much.
For a strip car it should be ok, or a street/strip car that is turning less on the highway.

02NBMWS6

iTrader: (22)

so 15-20 second WOT pulls shoul dbe fine then? I always figured that all 6 quarts would have been circulated through a quarter miles pass and if the oil isnt draining back fast enough it would damage the motor in the quarter or def on a 15-20 second pull

MrElectric03

iTrader: (71)

Ive seen high volume/pressure pumps do this on SBCs in the circle track but not in an LS1, this is the first ive heard of it.

s/c'd cav

iTrader: (10)

oil pressure gauges help , ive caught low oil level on a mechanical gauge at high rpm and quick turns a small bubble registers as a quick blip on the gauge

oil drain back is very important with high volume pumps , high pressure isnt as big of a issue

pillboxesghost

iTrader: (28)

It's my understanding that adding an extra quart to the oil pan (or using a larger capacity oil pan) will prevent bearing failures on LSx engines (non DOD) that have had high volume oil pumps installed.

The oil will return to the pan at highway speed (gravity almost always works -- does it not?). If engine was damaged on the freeway, wouldn't the bearings have starved during the initial acceleration to freeway RPM?

The unfortunate member's engine seemed fine (as I read his post) upon reaching the track. It failed after high rpm track passes.

But, I didn't stay at a Holliday Inn last night and I wasn't present at the trip or strip.

However, I stand by my original post -- the problem was pump volume (vs. oil reservoir volume) not oil pressure!

BTW, really sorry to hear about your bad experience!

ohioz

iTrader: (9)

melling makes two oil pumps for ls1's a high volume, high pressure one and one that is standered volume which is what i have in my car. I havnt had any problems with it so far even when i had a Th400 and 4000 stall and it was turning 3k on the freeway

Black01M6SS

iTrader: (3)

I swear, something else to worry me. I just purchased a Melling 296 with the high pressure spring and extra port work. I have the car taken apart right now to install it. The SLP oil pump that was in the car was only giving me ~20psi when fully warm. This is on my new TSP 402. The engine was built for boost so the clearances are probably a little on the large side.

If the clearances are large doesn't that mean the oil is going to escape and drain back down?

fastGBcamaro

iTrader: (10)

Wow I didn't realize that my post would attract this much attention. Obviously we don't know with 100% certainty what happened, but our guess is that it was the sustained 4000+ rpms for 20 min of driving. I wouldn't be worried about running a Mellings pump, just be sure you aren't turning that many rpms for a long period of time. Quick blasts down the 1/4 are fine. I plan on running a full 6 qts. instead of 5.5 like it came from the factory. But running more oil than required is not always the answer either. In fact if you run too much oil and the crank is able to splash into the oil almost whipping it into a foam, containing air bubbles, this would be even more harmful.
When I did get the car to the track I noticed it didn't want to idle as well as normal, but it wasn't making any strange noise so I ran it anyway So I assume some of the damage was already done.

Black01M6SS

iTrader: (3)

I have been known for making some high speed runs. WOT for 3-5 minutes at a time. I guess I'll keep an eye on the oil pressure gauge.

You didn't notice the oil pressure bouncing around on your 20 minute drive?

s346k

iTrader: (4)

it sounds to me like the engine was low on oil to start with and racing (extreme high rpm) is what killed it. sustaining 4k on the highway for a couple hours wouldn't do **** to that motor. it definately would not cause the bearings and the crank to mate like that.

sounds to me like you had a dumbass attack and simply ran it low on oil. when built properly, these engines can take MUCH more abuse than that. if my stock ls1 can sustain 160mph in 5th gear on the rev limiter for 5 minutes, surely your built shortblock motor can handle 4k for 20 minutes.

99blancoSS

iTrader: (115)

4000 rpms is not hi rpms and did not cause oil starvation. Maybe is was built properly maybe it wasnt. Was it line honed?