nitrousboyWS6

iTrader: (19)

I own the second twin turbo/ built motor car to come out of there shop. The complete install was done by them. I dropped the car off in early feb and got it back in late may or early june. Here is there vid link of the car on the dyno.
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/0...c82608545c.htm

Now after I got the car home I drove it to work and back home which is about 50 miles. Then I had a friend (use to work at a dealership where he was the heavy mech. He also did a head and cam swap for me.)change out my 410 gear for a 373. So the car sat all the way up to there thunder in the north. Leo asked me to bring the car down there so I did. So in all told the car had about 60 miles on it from me and how many ever from the 25 dyno pulls on the car. The first pass I was off the limiter due to the fact I forgot to check my tire pressure. So just 1st gear and then I was short shifting the rest of the gears by about 1000 rpm's. After the run My temp shoot way up and I shut the car off as soon as I seen that. I popped the hood and ther was coolant everywhere. At the track Leo and the guys from GMR all thought it was a blown head gasket. So all I thought it needed was a new set of head gaskets and that was it. Leo offered to fix the car but since he was running the event we really could not talk about the cost. So i wanted the car local where I colud see it and I was tired of driving three and half hours to see the it, so I had the same friend that did the gear, take it apart to fix it.

He goes to take the driver side head off and the nuts on the head studs where loose. He got them off with a 3/8 inch ratchet. The pass. side he had to use a braker bar. Now I've heard different opions on if th head lifting caused the nuts to be loose. When we got the head off and there was a hole for the combustion chamber to the water jacket. After looking at the motor we decide to take it out and have it gone through. During the process of taking it out we discover-

1) The an fittings on the water pump looked llike they have been grinded on the radius part of the fitting.
2) The blow off valve looks like a 12 year old welded it on.
3) A bolt on the motor mount was bottomed out.
4) The bolts on the t that feeds oil to the turbo are finger tight.
5) The flange for one of the wastegates is missing.

I have pics off all of this. I don't know how to post them though. I can e-mail them to someone.

So we take the short block to a local engine builder that has been it the business for 20+ years. They have there own machine shop. After they take the motor apart they find alot of more bad news. The seem to think the motor was put together to tight or dirty. There is a pile of what looks like mud(it is alot of debris from the motor's bearings) in the bottom of my oil pan.
The piston to wall clearance was 9 thou. When it should be 4-5 thou. The piston was rocking it the cylinder. The mains were nevered alined honed. Hince #2 & 4 where tight. The sprial lock on #2 piston was not seated all the way. So if I did not detonate the motor it was going to come apart any way.

I have pics of this too but I need to get them posted.

That is all I have time for now.

Leo@GMRSPEED

iTrader: (2)

Wow Chuck quite a 180 you pull. You go from posting on here, then calling me and apoligizing about posting that you were confused and blowing up and admitting you blew up the car to now posting that it is our fault again?

Chuck there are nearly 100 people that were at our track rental that saw you blow that car up, not matter who builds a motor, it will not survive what you did to it.

You took an 800 RWHP turbo charged car, with 40+ PSI in the rear drag radials (Of which is unheard of and just a matter of having no regard or respect for the car, yourself, or other people you could have hurt if you lost control of that car), and you slammed the car off of the limiter AT LEAST 4 times going down the track, THERE WAS A BURNOUT MARK THE LENGTH OF THE TRACK!!!

When you got to the end we knew you blew a head gasket AT LEAST after a beating like that, we pretty much called that one down at the staging area before I saw you.

I told you to bring the car back and we can take care of it, though I could not diagnose everything there at the track, while running the track day I could not give a price on anything, that would not have been fair to me and you and YOU have agreed with me on this.

You told me you were dropping the car at the shop and even gave me your spare set of keys for it. I got to the shop, no car. So even if it was my fault, you never gave me a single chance to make good on the car or inspect any problems.

The head studs are going to come loose when you lift a head and take material out from underneath it plain and simple. These head that cracked are heads that YOU provided from a shop that you admitted screwed you and you didnt even know what they were or if they were worth anything, until we went over them. We confirmed they had PAR flow numbers and they were cc'd to show that we were able to get the 8.3:1 compression which was in the range we were looking for.

Also with flanges from the wastegates missing it totally bogus as we dynoed the car and the car made great power and everything went fine. You told me you were missing one so I sent you new ones becuase I figured maybe you lost them taking things apart and I had them in stock so that was no big deal.

As far as anything else you claim, really holds no water to me as I do not trust a word you say. You told me you were going to pay me the money you owed when you picked up the car after it was complete, you lied to my face and said you would send it to me in a week and like an idiot I let you leave with the car. Weeks and weeks went by and no payment from you getting all kinds of b/s stories but yet your were able to afford other parts you were buying for the car when you were supposedly "broke".
Then after YOU blew the car up you asked me for money to have somebody fix it, I gave you an option to brign the car to meto be fixed and you declined. You asked me to call it even on the money you owe to call it even on anything you may occur from damages that you caused to the car, this was after your heads were off of the car. I said that is fine though I did not think it was fair that I did not even get to give my own diagnosis on the damage, but I did feel bad for you at the time because that is one expensive driving lesson.

Chuck when you called me to apoligize the last time you posted about this admitting it was all you that blew that car up and you were just mad and wanted to vent, you were told that had you brought the car to me I probally would have charged you next to nothing to fix anything that was wrong because we did intiailly work on the car and I will stand behind my work 100% EVEN IF IT IS NOT MY FAULT, I will do what I can to keep a customer on the road.
As you told me time and time agian about your driving escapade you made down the track when you blew up the car, that **** happens, and that is why I was willing to help you out by repairing the car. But when I am lied to and crapped on and not given a chance to take a first hand look at what went wrong I will no longer work with you.


To everyone reading this, I have a passion for what I do, there is no way I would let a car out of my shop in that condition. A good business reputation is more important to me than just dollars and cents , but if I saw something that we had done wrong I would have fixed it, you can search through any message board and see that I have fixed anything that might seem like the fault of my company. This whole situation has gone back and forth and the person who posted this has had more posts deleted then I can count for just trying to bash us because he could not respect the power his car made and tried to John Force it down the track and horribly failed, intern blowing up his motor.

For anyone just reading this post, check out our other feedback we have recieved, I have noticed lately that the good stuff never gets put in with the bad

https://ls1tech.com/forums/ls1tech-sponsor-feedback/572946-11-s-help-gmr.html

https://ls1tech.com/forums/ls1tech-sponsor-feedback/537363-gmr-speed.html
(BTW we built this guys boosted motor and it seems to be doing pretty good)

https://ls1tech.com/forums/ls1tech-sponsor-feedback/543633-gmr-speed.html
( Built this one too)

https://ls1tech.com/forums/ls1tech-sponsor-feedback/525318-gmr-does-again.html

https://ls1tech.com/forums/ls1tech-sponsor-feedback/461404-two-thumbs-up-gmr-speed.html
( Hey he is making very close to the same power and oh yea we buit the motor and turbo kit for him as well )

nitrousboyWS6

iTrader: (19)

[/QUOTE]

GEARHED

iTrader: (5)

I will get with both of you this week since I can't make sense of what took place when, if there was full payment for what seems to be a partial build and if either of you tried to resolve this in any manner since something/not sure happened sometime either at a track or after.

I am going to politely ask both of you to cool off before posting again, blurry pictures are deleted since no sense can be made of them.

Leo@GMRSPEED

iTrader: (2)

Sorry

To explain a little more of the money I was owed. Chuck came to pick up his complete car with a remaining balance of just under $600. I let him go with the car, even though it is policy that we recieve payment in full before the car leaves. I never recieved that payment. After the owner (Chuck) too the car to the track, and hurt the engine, he requested, as a settlement for any damages done to the car, of which I never had a chance to investigate to see if it was caused by me, that we call it even on the money he owed me from his previous invoice. At that point I told him fine, if that is what he wanted to settle everything, any problems he had with the car, that we can do that even though I did not feel it was fair that I did not have a chance to see if the damage was my fault to even have to repair.

Hope that helps a little more.

nitrousboyWS6

iTrader: (19)

Gearhed,

I put this post in sponsor feedback because another moderator told us too and deleted some of the posts that were involved in another forum. What this is basically about is I think people should know about GMR's engine building skills or the lack of. Bottom line is after almost $20,000 spent and a messed up motor I posted the pics that I have of the motor and parts. The blurry picture was a bottomed out motor mount bolt so the mount wasnt' even tight. The balance that Leo is talking about is I picked up a car that wasn't totally finished (gauges and shift light was in op) He told me he would knock money off the balance for the in op gauges and shift light and in another post in here and on the phone he said to never mind the balance and put it towards parts to fixing my motor.

Look bottom line is look at the pics. The spiral lock, the main bearing working itself out, all the trash in the pan, the block wasn't even deburred of casting flash or sharp edges. not deburring it making a thousand horsepower or so at the crank is not good. If a block is going to crack.. sharp edges that arent taking care of is where its going to crack. ALL the nuts on the head studs were able to be taken off with a regular ratchet not just the ones around the lifted cylinder but the whole head. He talks of another shop screwing me on my cylinder heads the only thing that happend with that company is they didn't refund my core charge after I sent my stock heads back cause they went out of business. He calls it an expensive driving lesson but the only expensive lesson was me not putting my car back on the trailer like my friend wanted me to when I dropped the car off.

I will have over $4500 or more in putting my motor back together and the labor to take it in and out. So total my total bill for this whole experience is well over $20,000 so I think people should know what I have been through. I think GMR is a good shop for bolt on performance installs and for dyno tuning I just PERSONALLY think they are out of there league to build high horsepower twin turbo motors. I have admitted my mistakes in my driving in hitting the rev limiter off the line and not setting my tire pressure. I think its time for Leo to admit some of his shops mistakes. PICTURES don't lie. It was a time bomb waiting to go off before i picked it up.

CHUCK

Leo@GMRSPEED

iTrader: (2)

Chuck,
When we noticed the temp gauge wasn't working, which we are not for sure that it was working when the car came in as it was a complete mess. The car would not run, and the wiring was a complete nightmare. I took money off before the final $600 balance was found, I have an invoice of how much we took off to help you get this done.

You say I did not see the car go down the track... WHY WOULD I MISS THAT, IT IS ONE OF THE FASTEST CARS WE BUILT, I wouldnt have missed that for anything.

Now you mention of the limiter we put in for the tune.... IT IS AT 6800 RPM, have someone pull your file out of your car, I already looked at it.

Chuck, we are not out of our league when it comes to building race engines, the power you want to make as the power we gave you was obviously more than what was anticipated.

dynedta

iTrader: (4)

wow here we go again, I am not going to repost a big ole thing to back gmr again on this subject but a couple things, 1st I seen with my own 2 eyes chuck (nitrousboyWS6) run the car down the track (damn near the whole way) on the limiter, 2nd Leo was standing right beside me when you ran, all eyes were on the track to begin with to watch your car run down the track, 3rd the car ran FLAWLESSLY on the dyno many times during break-in and tuning. further more if anyone else has any questions or would like to talk about this matter pm me or email me at gdubbs17@icqmail.com.

thanks
Gary

nitrousboyWS6

iTrader: (19)

I am done going back and forth here on this forum.

Leo@GMRSPEED

iTrader: (2)

If those problems existed on the Dyno, it would not have made 20+, 700+ RWHP pulls on the Dyno ... like these:






If the motor was not properly put together and bolts were not properly torque, or there was a spiral lock backing out ... it would have went here, there is no way for a spiral lock to walk out.

You had the motor taken apart AFTER YOU DETONATED THE HELL OUT OF IT. Of course any tolerances will be way off from where they should be.

The main bearing you are showing a picture of, probably came loose when the motor was being disassembled, it is impossible on a brand new GM performance parts block to walk a bearing sideway on a 6 bolt main block, those blocks come ready to assemble. The scaring on the bearings happened because of friction from the antifreeze that went through your oiling system after you pressurized the cooling system and you continued to beat the car down the track.

As for the wiring of the car, I was being sarcastic, you just said it why would I compliment on something that is hard to trace wires through.

It is not about making me look like a good guy. It is about showing that my company is not at fault here, and even though it was not my fault I still tried to go out of my way to help you, and all you did in return is try to get a free ride.

nitrousboyWS6

iTrader: (19)

I am keeping this to fact only kids. Play nice please.

GEARHED

iTrader: (5)

I have now had time to sort this out. There is a good point to be made here and it needs to be said out loud:

If you have a custom build and it goes boom, you allow the shop that built it to do the tear down and inspect. If you have to pay for it then you have learned: this is the price of this "hobby", it is the lesson we all learn at one time or another.

A) Leo@GMR did the inital build in house with 25 pulls that had NO issue. The vid of the one pull is sweet - there are no problems present what-so-ever.

B) Car was taken to the track and literally at the last minute to run not yet finished as admitted by the owner of the car, hit the track bouncing off the rev limiter with improper psi in the tires with no break in time nor assesment of driving skills for that kind of power. There were other witnesses to this particular pass by other highly regarded shops. It contradicts statements made by the car owner and racer of how this could or could not have happened.

C) At the track, Chuck handed Leo the key so he could do the tear down even though there is no warranty on these kinds of builds, it was a "good faith" gesture. Leo did not get the car but only the key.

D) The car seems to have gone somewhere where "He" tore the engine apart *then* it went to "a shop" of which there is no way to know if any one of those people are certified mechanics let alone work on high HP modded cars.

E) By the time the pictures are taken, at least three people have had their hands in the tear down. There is no way to know for absolute certainty what happened in transfer, if those are indeed the parts from that engine that made that specific pass nor any documentation GMR did an improper build of any sort.

With all the other information provided by GMR as documentation (with more that has not been posted on this build alone) and no valid or certified from the person that is claiming to want money back, the call is made there is no vaild claim GMR did crappy work nor any entitlement, verbal or legally binding to refund the cost of said build.

There are so many other finer points here that I just will not address as they only show what the buyer is unwilling to accept.



It is a rare occasion I will put my own history into posts here but this is that rare occasion. The reason my nick name is "Crabby Forum Moderator" is I have been wrenching for 32 years and racing for 30 years.
In that time I have blown up engines; oiled up the track; seen the sky when I should have been seeing track; torn apart and rebuilt the same engine three times or more; spent way more money than I probably should have YET this is the hobby I love and I know if it can go wrong, it will.

One of the top racers in the country taught me two very important lessons very early on and I will impart them here as this is the prime opportunity to do so:
"Eventually you will wreck it, blow it up or a combination of both no matter how tight the build and car is and...
Suck it up and keep racing. You either can deal with the loss or you can't...and the latter can get out of my way."

nitrousboyWS6

iTrader: (19)

gearhed I sent you a pm

nitrousboyWS6

iTrader: (19)

Gearhed
How could have time to sort this out without contacting me?

I NEVER blamed GMR for my motor lifting a head. Where did you read that in my post?

None of your facts are correct on my end. I nevered tore the engine apart. A ASE certifed mech did. He has worked at a dealership for 10 years before openiong his own shop. He put heads and a cam on my stock motor. Where it ran great for 3 years with countless bottles going through it. The car was making 500 rwhp and 525 rwtr on the bottle and on A Sh**ty tune.

The shop that took the engine apart is a local machine shop/engine builder. I would be happy to provide you or gmr the name so you can call them and talk to them. They are a reputable shop that have bulit motors for people local and for people in flordia.

So that is only 2 people that have had there hands on the car/motor. The ASE mech that took it out and the shop that took the motor apart. Where in the pics does it show 3 people touching the motor?

I'm curious is leo an ase certified mech?

As far as my driving skills I nevered claimed to be john force. I have about 40 to 50 passes under my belt. Starting in 2002. With a majorty of them in the 11 sec range at 118-122.

All the info you got was from gmr you never contacted me. I sent you a pm 2 days ago. SO once again how could you "sort" this out without talking to me.

Chuck

GEARHED

iTrader: (5)

Voice mail isn't getting checked apparently....

Aside from all that there were others that saw that pass where car went boom, I didn't have to rely on one individual for that. From what you have posted, you did blame GMR squarely for the problem and want a refund on a non-warranty product.

What wasn't clear and you did not expound on is how many people tore apart the motor after the run, where it was initally done, no letter or post from the second ASE cert shop guy what he found or why you only handed Leo the key but not the car when he offered to work on it again.

Overall it does not matter. You were dissatisfied with GMR and posted that quite some time after all this took place.
Its done. Everyone took their hits and time to move on.

nitrousboyWS6

iTrader: (19)

If you call me I would be happy to explain everything to you. I pm'ed you my #. So please contact me.

I DID NOT ASK FOR A REFUND IN MY POST......

The shop that tore the motor apart and is rebuilding is is not a site sponsor. If you or leo would like to contact them I would be happy to give there number.

Leo@GMRSPEED

iTrader: (2)

But you did threaten me that if I did not pay you, you were going to go all over the internet and post bad stuff about my shop, obviouslly some of which is not true, or did not tell whole truths.
I am sorry I will not pay anyone off that is trying to get a free ride because they screwed up and cannot deal with it.

Leo@GMRSPEED

iTrader: (2)

But you did threaten me that if I did not pay you, you were going to go all over the internet and post bad stuff about my shop, obviouslly some of which is not true, or did not tell whole truths.
I am sorry I will not pay anyone off that is trying to get a free ride because they screwed up and cannot deal with it.

GEARHED

iTrader: (5)

After talking to both parties, there is nothing more this forum can do for either party.

What is being asked for as a resolution can only be taken up in a formal filing of a court hearing - I can only hope you two reach some sort of agreement prior to that.

We are now done. This thread will be locked.