Horrid tune/attitude from Futral Motorsports
12-06-2006, 06:38 PM
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Horrid tune/attitude from Futral Motorsports I had Allen tune my truck a short while ago. Needless to say the tune is very much not to my likeing and will never do business with him again.
I would go into more detail but as per a mod i'm not allowed to or it will be deleted so basically Allens tune has left ALOT to be desired.
I would go into more detail but as per a mod i'm not allowed to or it will be deleted so basically Allens tune has left ALOT to be desired.
Last edited by TouchOfEvil04; 12-07-2006 at 12:58 AM.
12-07-2006, 02:07 AM
#2
It is not that you can't post an issue, we just need to keep things factual and basic so it can be addressed and understood by everyone.
Leaving feedback that is negative is not a problem. You can link responses from our sister sites as they also show if a Sponsor is one another member would like to deal with.
Leaving feedback that is negative is not a problem. You can link responses from our sister sites as they also show if a Sponsor is one another member would like to deal with.
12-07-2006, 03:39 AM
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To address the problems at hand i have a list of problems i am having with the driveablity of the truck.
For starters i have a 6.0l LQ4 engine with a TR220/220-.551/.551-112LSA cam.I also have 918 springs TI retainers and the 7.4 push rods. Now for my problems i am having.
My truck idles at 825rpms while i see guys running 600-650 on 5.3 with the same cam all the time.
My truck wants to lurch forward as if i was on the gas all the time. If i let off the accelarator it holds a steady speed of 30mph or a little more.
If i am at a dead stop and let off the brake the rpms will climb til 1600-1700 then shift and climb again on it's own.
To me thats just not acceptable ya know.
The cam surges alot still you drop it in Drive and it surges then smoothes out after a few seconds....you cruise along come to a red light and the whole truck is shakin with rpm jump.
The convertor locks at 25mph unlocks at 25mph then relocks at 30mph. Once it locks the slighest movement in less throttle postion causes it to unlock again.
Gvieing the truck the least amount of peddle basically just a hair of peddle it trys to speed up till about 40-45mph and like i said if i let off any at all the convertor unlocks again.
Those are the complaints i have with the truck driveablity.
For starters i have a 6.0l LQ4 engine with a TR220/220-.551/.551-112LSA cam.I also have 918 springs TI retainers and the 7.4 push rods. Now for my problems i am having.
My truck idles at 825rpms while i see guys running 600-650 on 5.3 with the same cam all the time.
My truck wants to lurch forward as if i was on the gas all the time. If i let off the accelarator it holds a steady speed of 30mph or a little more.
If i am at a dead stop and let off the brake the rpms will climb til 1600-1700 then shift and climb again on it's own.
To me thats just not acceptable ya know.
The cam surges alot still you drop it in Drive and it surges then smoothes out after a few seconds....you cruise along come to a red light and the whole truck is shakin with rpm jump.
The convertor locks at 25mph unlocks at 25mph then relocks at 30mph. Once it locks the slighest movement in less throttle postion causes it to unlock again.
Gvieing the truck the least amount of peddle basically just a hair of peddle it trys to speed up till about 40-45mph and like i said if i let off any at all the convertor unlocks again.
Those are the complaints i have with the truck driveablity.
12-07-2006, 08:10 AM
#5
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Can you and FMS get back together on this, or are you both mad? Fixing the lock/unlocking converter issue is pretty straightforward, mostly a matter of going into the relevant tables and moving the lockup mph around.
I'd like to see you guys figure it out. Maybe everyone can start over, forgive and fix.
I'd like to see you guys figure it out. Maybe everyone can start over, forgive and fix.
12-07-2006, 08:36 AM
#6
I could only assume that the converter lockup issue could be fixed by desensitizing the misfire tables, as for your idle & such an 825 idle seems perfectly normal for that particular cam. The cam surge may or may not be easily fixed though...maybe toying with the lock & unlock tables will help with this issue...when the converter is unlocked you wont get any cam surge so I would just have the converter unlock at the mph where you get the surge. Hopefully you get your issues ironed out though and get fixed up soon.
12-07-2006, 09:30 AM
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possible reason for higher idle do you have a stall converter ? if you don't and the others you refer to do then this would make it possible to lower the in gear idle.
I do not feel the 825 rpm is high either way though, but it could cause a slight cruise control affect with the cam and no stall converter.
it just sounds as if you need a tad bit of tweaking and do not see why Futral would not gladly handle it. This is not uncommon inthe tuning world to make a tweak here and there.
I hope this works out for you.
I do not feel the 825 rpm is high either way though, but it could cause a slight cruise control affect with the cam and no stall converter.
it just sounds as if you need a tad bit of tweaking and do not see why Futral would not gladly handle it. This is not uncommon inthe tuning world to make a tweak here and there.
I hope this works out for you.
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12-07-2006, 11:19 AM
#8
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I do have a yank tt2600 convertor in the truck.
I went by his shop to have some things fixxed and i got a kinda ok when ya gonna leave i have stuff to do look from him....
Maybe it was just me on that one though and he will post up what he thinks and so on.
825rpms at idle is very high for such a small cam in 6.0l motor i'm sorry.
I know several people with the same size motor and larger cams that idle at lower rpms and guys with 5.3l motors and the same cam and idle lower. Most idle at about 600-650 which is fine with me but 825 is just too high for such a small cam.
I went by his shop to have some things fixxed and i got a kinda ok when ya gonna leave i have stuff to do look from him....
Maybe it was just me on that one though and he will post up what he thinks and so on.
825rpms at idle is very high for such a small cam in 6.0l motor i'm sorry.
I know several people with the same size motor and larger cams that idle at lower rpms and guys with 5.3l motors and the same cam and idle lower. Most idle at about 600-650 which is fine with me but 825 is just too high for such a small cam.
12-09-2006, 12:57 AM
#10
Are you willing to let Futral work on your truck again?
I think we got some good responses in her to go on, please try calling them next week (Monday as many will be at PRI) to see if they will read this and make another appointment for your truck tune.
I think we got some good responses in her to go on, please try calling them next week (Monday as many will be at PRI) to see if they will read this and make another appointment for your truck tune.
12-16-2006, 07:41 PM
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Well yesterday i made the trip to go see Charlie Wheatley. Could have done mail order but i'm kinda **** about mail order tunes so i got a street tune from him.
Compared to Futrals tune that was in the truck before it is a complete night and day differance!
The truck no longer idles at 825rpms and rough as hell and wanting to kill at times with large cam surge.
Now it idles at 625 with a nice lope to it no surge doesn't want to die ever on me. Honestly the way it idles now brings a smile to my face as it's the perfect cam lope to it for sound to me with the size cam it is.
Before with Futral the convertor would lock at 25mph unlock at 26 then relock at 30mph. Annoying to say the least.
Problem was he lowered the lock up point without adjusting the 3rd gear and 4th gear upshift points. So 3rd gear was set to not upshift till around 35 and 4th 38mph. So he had it trying to lock at 30 without ever changing the vavlues of the other gears.
Now it locks at 35mph like i wanted it to and no more lock unlock lock BS.
Before the truck would idle at a solid 30mph and never slow down. You could let off the brake at a dead stop and it would work it's way up to 30mph within about a quarter mile. Quarter mile might seem like a long distance but considering i would never touch the gas thats a hard damn idle.The truck would pull until 1700rpms then shift and pull till 1700 again and shift into thrid and hold a low rpm at 30mph.BS once again.
Now it idles at about 8mph at a steady rpm of about 800 or so. Just how i wanted it.
Before air/fuel was 13.1 throughout part of the rpm band. From 3000-5200 it was 13.1 all other rpms it was 14.1 or higher.
Now i'm at a solid 12.8-1 across the entire board.Perfect IMO.
With Futral my timing tables for part throttle were 5degrees lower than stock tables. Why i don't know but thats how he had it.
Now i'm a little above stock for part throttle which makes the normal DD alot more bareable and just fun to drive.
Before my line pressures were over 90% at part throttle and 98 at WOT.
The damn truck banged into gear so bad it would jolt the cab at part throttle.WOT forget painful. I asked Allen at one time if he could at least lessen the part throttle shifts and he told me NO he had no control over this area. But lowered my WOT down from 120%.
Now with the tables at stock for both throttle postions it's a nice smooth shift for normal driving and a quick tire chriping shift for WOT. Very nice.
Before i was running stock tables for max timing in upper rpms and a little better than stock througout the lower rpms. Futral told me more timing will not add power.Sure it won't.I mean no at a certain point it won't but it helps until you reach that point.
Now at 3000rpms i'm at 28degrees which is one degree higher than the most it ever reached on Futrals tables. It jumps to 30degrees at 3600rpms and keeps goin till i hit 33.5 degrees and not a bit a KR at all no the slightest hint of audiable knock ethier. We could run more but didn't so that i don't have to worry about a summer tune and winter tune.
All in all the truck idles great now convertor locks like it should. It no longer drives itself at 30mph or launches forward as soon as i release the brake.
The street mannors are at least 10fold better than before.
The power comes on much harder and sooner and just seems to never stop pulling. Everyone who has rode in it before and after feels a very large differance in the power of the truck now.
It honestly feels like a whole new truck all together.
So just wanted to share this with everyone. Allen Futral stated that what i expected from the tune was not possible by himself or any other tuner for that matter and i should take my business elsewhere.
Well i did and the truck runs and performs exactly the way i wanted it to since day one.
Compared to Futrals tune that was in the truck before it is a complete night and day differance!
The truck no longer idles at 825rpms and rough as hell and wanting to kill at times with large cam surge.
Now it idles at 625 with a nice lope to it no surge doesn't want to die ever on me. Honestly the way it idles now brings a smile to my face as it's the perfect cam lope to it for sound to me with the size cam it is.
Before with Futral the convertor would lock at 25mph unlock at 26 then relock at 30mph. Annoying to say the least.
Problem was he lowered the lock up point without adjusting the 3rd gear and 4th gear upshift points. So 3rd gear was set to not upshift till around 35 and 4th 38mph. So he had it trying to lock at 30 without ever changing the vavlues of the other gears.
Now it locks at 35mph like i wanted it to and no more lock unlock lock BS.
Before the truck would idle at a solid 30mph and never slow down. You could let off the brake at a dead stop and it would work it's way up to 30mph within about a quarter mile. Quarter mile might seem like a long distance but considering i would never touch the gas thats a hard damn idle.The truck would pull until 1700rpms then shift and pull till 1700 again and shift into thrid and hold a low rpm at 30mph.BS once again.
Now it idles at about 8mph at a steady rpm of about 800 or so. Just how i wanted it.
Before air/fuel was 13.1 throughout part of the rpm band. From 3000-5200 it was 13.1 all other rpms it was 14.1 or higher.
Now i'm at a solid 12.8-1 across the entire board.Perfect IMO.
With Futral my timing tables for part throttle were 5degrees lower than stock tables. Why i don't know but thats how he had it.
Now i'm a little above stock for part throttle which makes the normal DD alot more bareable and just fun to drive.
Before my line pressures were over 90% at part throttle and 98 at WOT.
The damn truck banged into gear so bad it would jolt the cab at part throttle.WOT forget painful. I asked Allen at one time if he could at least lessen the part throttle shifts and he told me NO he had no control over this area. But lowered my WOT down from 120%.
Now with the tables at stock for both throttle postions it's a nice smooth shift for normal driving and a quick tire chriping shift for WOT. Very nice.
Before i was running stock tables for max timing in upper rpms and a little better than stock througout the lower rpms. Futral told me more timing will not add power.Sure it won't.I mean no at a certain point it won't but it helps until you reach that point.
Now at 3000rpms i'm at 28degrees which is one degree higher than the most it ever reached on Futrals tables. It jumps to 30degrees at 3600rpms and keeps goin till i hit 33.5 degrees and not a bit a KR at all no the slightest hint of audiable knock ethier. We could run more but didn't so that i don't have to worry about a summer tune and winter tune.
All in all the truck idles great now convertor locks like it should. It no longer drives itself at 30mph or launches forward as soon as i release the brake.
The street mannors are at least 10fold better than before.
The power comes on much harder and sooner and just seems to never stop pulling. Everyone who has rode in it before and after feels a very large differance in the power of the truck now.
It honestly feels like a whole new truck all together.
So just wanted to share this with everyone. Allen Futral stated that what i expected from the tune was not possible by himself or any other tuner for that matter and i should take my business elsewhere.
Well i did and the truck runs and performs exactly the way i wanted it to since day one.
