Rossko85

iTrader: (11)

Okay boyz and girls...here we go...we know that all of us simply get google eyed over a select company that has a front mount turbo kit for our cars, and the kit is truly is a great one too, but not everyone has the $$$$ laying around or the credit to be pulling those kind of numbers out of the bank or their ***...least I dont, this car took most all of our credit lol with this damned price tag...but Project GXP-TN2O is under way.
This is believed to be through unconfirmed, select and private sources to be the world's first rear/remotely mounted turbo kit for the LS4 platform.

I will keep you all posted as our list of parts are complete now as we have been in a vail of darkness for a bit.... and will post up all the necessary pics and post as we continue this endeavor for the more budget minded LS4 owner and making strives to not compromise quality above all.

This project will include the use of N2O and Turbo charging methods of forced induction together and balanced in harmony is the goal with a progressive mini controller. All these parts have been researched and collected based upon there specific limitations and abilities as well as the LS4 limitations and how well, according to design of this specific project and all of the collected parts will perform on this vehicle(2008 Pontiac Grand Prix GXP) and this motor(LS4).

The goal of this project is to have this specific prototype be a base for power-minded and large gain seeking owners on a budget that want a quality do-it-yourself-type system and not have the overated price tag...we dont have to pay for R and D much...the bases and foundations have been set up for many years, we are the crazy one's to start it; and we are serious guys...im in your boat and want what you do for our cars, and we will get it together...lets continue writting this book.

Although this has not been focused on mass production, or even limited production, WE ARE NOT BUILDING THIS TO BE A KIT TO BE SOLD RIGHT NOW, JUST A TRIAL BUT, it would'nt be too far out of the barn to develop from our prototype, and mind you that this will compliment and work with all factory LS4 platforms, only changes would be tuning in the ECU for certain and select years of the motor.

So rest assure that this is being planned and developed very carefully and with a lot of support from several sponsors/supporters and friends in the biz and other well accredited manufactures and shops that have not yet been named due to this still in the planning and pre-fabrication stages, but will be named as the project passes through their hands and knowledge as well as their shops.

I spoke with JR at Full Throttle Performance in Indianapolis, IN, he has expressed an interest in looking over the car and donating time into assembly and engineering, as well as some start-up and driveablility tuning. Full Throttle Performance has been in some small talks of being the manufacture of a kit for STS as a subcontracted builder; depending on demand and some other select components of production. So, still in early stages but, a few potential options as of right now.

I know all of you will have questions, as I expect that, but I will post as we go once things are put in place and fabbed up, and then I will start the project parts list, we have to install first and reserve and contact and credit all part names in the build.

Sponsors/Supporters/Techs:

Full Throttle Performance, Indianapolis, IN "JR-Ray and Staff" www.fullthrottleperformance.com

STS(Squires Turbo Systems), West Orem, UT "Vernon, Chris and Staff" www.ststurbo.com

Cozzolino Motorsports, Indianapolis, IN "Pete Cozzolino and Staff" www.petecozzolino.com / www.cozzolinomotorsports.com

TRU Motorsports, Indianapolis, IN "Jeorge and Staff"www.trumotorsports.com

Speed Service Performance Shop, Brownsburg, IN "Rich" http://www.speedservicellc.com/

TUNER MANEUVER AUTOMOTIVE MAGAZINE, Twin Lake, MI Editor In Chief-Jay W. www.TunerManeuverMag.com

Green Light Motorsports, Kokomo, IN "Chad Rose" http://www.greenlightmotorsports.com/

FIC-Fuel Injector Connection, Cumming, GA "Jon" www.fuelinjectorconnection.com

Cory Rist, LS1TECH: ws98ta-Greenwood, IN
Nate ***, LS1TECH: Metallihawk-Indianapolis, IN
Kyle Burchard, LS1TECH: Jax04
Donnie Dawson, Indygpc: OrangeGTP
Ross Earles, LS1TECH: Rossko 85-Plainfield, IN

Here's the link to all my pics on Photobucket...SO MANY!! step by step for your viewing pleasure LOL...it goes through the N2O build and tuning and then onto the turbo!! just click the turbo thumbnail to go straight to turbo build.

Click the thumbnail and enjoy!

N2O runs load to 04:30 for the first and 08:30 for second...first two passes of the n2o...later to run a PB of 12.9...no footage of that one though LOL...

http://vimeo.com/5484320





First start up!

Rossko85

iTrader: (11)

Ok...well its been a lil bit since ive updated anyone....right now we have ran into some snags...one big one is that the 08s have the E67 ECU which is the same ECU GM uses for most all of its vehicles now...including the E85 cars due to the available alchohol tuning tables available...but, HP tuners doesnt offer a BAR add on upload for my ECU like they do for the 05-07 E38 ECU. So with that said, we have been working very close with HPTuners on attempting to tune this ECU...there are no files available for sharing or anything at this point for boosted LS4 or GXP...

With that said, for the most part most of the tuning is the same, just a few differences, i.e. E67 does not have a VE table...so, my tuner had to go in with a program that is new from HP and their developers that is basically a software that allows the tuner or user to take all the given values and make a virtual VE table...which makes things very very nice...giving this car something it can use now and allow it to be tuned even better low end.... Another issue we are running into is that the car wants to keep cutting out up top at or around or a lil over 4500rpm at WOT...we have turned off all the torque mgnt etc...couldnt figure it out...its pulling timing...but now showing on the tuners screen...kind of a studder...but, HP to the rescue again WE HOPE...they have a BRAND NEW BETA program they had us dump into the ECU to hopefully counter the timing/torque mangt. from pulling...they said it might work...so we will see..so working very close with them on this right now...more history in the making lol..


The bad part of this now is, that im using a 4" SLP LS7 MAF and it appears to be too choppy down low...so it throws my fuel trims way way rich..UP TOP IT IS PHANOMINAL!! so, ive relocated it to give it more air flow pre-maf to help or hopefully counter the turbulent air down low....but if that doesnt work we have decided to switch to a LS2 MAF...its still big enough to fit in my exsisting 4" intake piping and couplers w/tbolt clamps and it is screend so smoother air across the sensor down low, and its a lil smaller so should work great for that...and not loosing too much up top...so we will see....
Now..the stupid part on this...and the lil headache we have had, is this dam upstream O2!!! My first tuner with the NA/N2O and I saw that it didnt switch at all or barely at times...it was lazy...never thought anyting of it...then my boost tuner and I get to tuning and now we NEED IT...so, i go and get a Univ. Bosch and hook it up...and the dam thing still is doing the same thing...flat line down low and then lil humps with flow....so its just not switching..we tried doing the RPM bank adjustments and plenty more...and no diff...SO lol...now we decided, lets go with a direct fit plug in OE style...same what GM uses to avoid any variable at all...and of course its a DENSO...so we will see...

but with this problem...havent been able to finish the top end of this bad boy due to these problems..becuase of these issues, im running around in open loop and no maf LOL..im sorta OLSD right now, just running off of the VE table we made with the new software.....lol but im stoich right now target at 14.66...and noway for us to determine if the BETA worked due to while runnin around in OL/VE tables, the torque values are halfed...so not going to cut out up top like it did...but cant boost period under these conditions...becuase while running in OL/SD..the last value sinced by the ECU on AFR is carried into boost..and you guessed it..if I hit a 17.0-20.0...Im boosting on that AFR...IT STOPS YOU LIKE A FRIEGHT TRAIN GUYS...did it once and that was enough...tuner said...NO MORE until we get me on MAF at least...thats number one right now....

MAF should be here in two days...would of been here alot sooner if the dumb *** on here i bought it from would of shipped it over 3 weeks ago...yeah, I know..its been a ride with him too...now I have to wait for my tuner to get back from Italy...he is an electrical engineer with Delphi...and he travels...and has a family etc...and he lives 2 hours north of Indy in Lafayette where Purdue is for you with a ? above your head LOL....so just a lil tid bit there...

Walbro 255 is in and running good after we put a standard piece of line not fuel rated on the pump and the thing spliced open on us...good thing not while tuning the first day!!! but we dropped the tank for the first one...and then for the second...we did it on the fly and just cut that football shapped pre die in our trunks...you know...the one that looks like Stewie Griffin LMAO..but it was a biatch..but now you know under that is your fuel pump assembly...but Walbro 255 runs great so far...took very well with some bucket mods etc...
Still have to put in the injectors...they are 63.5lbs shorties...flow matched etc...I had them sent off, they were custom machined from FI Clinic..came out of a Z06 Vette...all the tuning here lately has been on factory injectors...we are just now getting to 70% duty cylce...so we getting close...just waiting for this other junk like I said...
We are running on 8lbs of boost still...taking it like a champ...

We have had some issues with venting the crank case....it wants to slip out my oil pan gasket leak...small leak before boost...doesnt even show up on the ground...but boost with the old vent system...WOW..everywhere!!! but tried a few things...but looks like we are still needing to see if this set up I have right now is going to work...Its a catch can system with a breather on the back valve cover feed port that went to the intake reference on top before...and of course the catch can with a check valve at the intake ref. point on top so boost doesnt go into the catch can, but I can still get vacuum... and the front mount LS4 guys have recommended me put a filter on the valve cover at the oil filler neck...Cant do that becuase my oil return is fed there...I have and oil pump in the rear guys...so have to work around that first...
So the catch can system hasnt been tested yet either to see if it will vent the crankcase better......LOL...so just a few things left...but we will see!!
Thanks guys...ill have a pic video put together soon with the whole build and will send it out....

LS7 MAF with SNL housing

LS7 MAF with SNL housing

Fuel Pump pull

Rossko85

iTrader: (11)

Hey guys....glad to be getting back in here...its been busy this winter with a bunch of cases and crazy nights at work and taking breaks from tuning and building to get back to family matters....

Newayz...cant believe its this close guys...the season is upon us....we still have some weeks to go but, the days are getting longer!!

Just wanted to chime in and give an update of what is to come of GXP-TN2O.

RECAP:
As of right now, as I stated in prior thread, there were some snaggs with the MAF type and location, O2 sensor not switching even when replaced with a UNIV. Bosch, and the tuner having to load custom HP tuners BETA programming into the ECU due to the car cutting power up top, in and out, what he says, "Is pulling timing from the torque management and not showing up in the tune; it's hiding!") and my oil pump leaking at the housing where the T-returns meet it. And further, what Ive spoken to some of you about and had great help in finding a solution, the PCV...

To go over those above, we were doing an LS7 MAF, with a 4" housing, unscreened and that turned out to be too choppy down low for air flow and kept slamming the car really rich AFR...So per my tuner, we switched to an LS2 MAF with a 3.75", screened housing and I decided to move it out of the fender well, closer to the intake elbow leading into the TB. Hoping this will be a lil better...we will loose some freq. up top but , will still have enough and have better low end air flow quality down low.


We have had to make the 5 wire harness that we all have, into an LS7 5 wire harness at first by reading diagrams and switching the wire locations on the harness....since we have had to change again to the LS2 MAF....I had a company called Ballenger Motorsports make a custom 6" jumper/adapter from an LS7(which is the re-wired LS4 5 wire) into an LS2....I had to change some reducer and T-bolt clamp sizes but, it fits very nicely at this point....just hopeful it works. I have kept my LS7 4" SNL housing as well, in hopes that with the new location of the MAF, that could be the fix to the low end air quaility, or lack of flow; thinking not enough straight pipe in front of the unscreened LS7 to obtain an accurate reading. So as of right now....running on a speed density tune if you will.....


And in regards to the O2 sensor, the factory DENSO went out early in the N2O days before the turbo so, didnt think anything of it until we needed it to tune in the turbo with this ECU. Not like the 04/05-07's, this LS4 has the E67 ECU, so no refrence and not the same as most all of yours running a 3BAR tune or set up.......you guys remember me posting on how crazy tuning has been, and even some of you Ive talked to over the last year or so.......HP has been great with us!! But, we installed a UVIV. Bosch...NO LUCK...lil better but, not switching...so now, I went with a brand new OE, dircect fit DENSO to eliminate any variables...hoping this works...cause if not, Im still running around in open loop on a speed density tune....and that means I CANT BOOST!!...much at least...im running on a custom VE table that is simulated from software due to this car just not having one!! Thank God I have a Delphi elec. engineer as a tuner!! LOL...

As far as the BETA...HP is working very closely with us as they have nothing planned for tuning on this ECU in the plans for yet another 2 years....so all they can do is help us as we ask and let us log the dog **** out of what we are doing....They give us some BETA to load in to hopefully Kombat the power sputter up top, in and out loss....tuner says its torque mgnt. so we are going with that....Some of you are probably wondering why havent we found out sooner and got to find out why this stuff hasnt worked yet if it was loaded....Well...cant see if the BETA is going to work unless we can go into closed loop frome the O2 switching properly, and we cant just run on MAF and do it due to the LS2 was not in the car the last time we tuned.....so we left off right there...it was ranning and winter was upon us....tuner said we would not be able to see if the BETA worked due to running on the open loop and no MAF which puts the car in a "Halfed torque value mode" So NO GO to see if it works...one thing scratches the others back on this one....

SO NOW...the oil pump! Got STS to send me a brand new one from another manuf. they said I had one that was from a bad batch they thought they gotten rid of...but this one is on point...no issues so far!!

The PCV....if some of you dont know...i am returning oil from the rearend from a pump....that pump is fed back to the top of my filler cap with a billet quick release adapter....most front mounts use this to put a small filter on and vent crank case pressure that way...I CANT DO THAT...I could but, would have to change the whole return set up around, NOT WORTH IT...so, STS sent us their PCV kit and that didnt do the trick under high boost loads up top...I would loose oil out of my oil pan gasket leak and/or the top of the engine before we started chasing these "oil gophers" as I call them LOL....SO SOLUTION: 3-way, vented, one way check valve filter catch can that is baffled and incorparates this check valve at the intake manifold refrence line allowing vacuum in the system as it operates in negative/vacuum pressure to circulate air and get rid of oil as a regular catch can does but, the check valve will not allow positive pressure, or "boost" into the catch can where it would then be vented out the one way positive press switch activated filter at the top of the can and creat a boost leak due to being refrenced at the intake manifold up top like all of our cars do, POST MAF and TB. This will allow the other two lines going to the valve cover vent leads in front and back, to be routed back to the catch can to vent positive pressure in the crankcase, flow into the catch can, and vent out the top in a 3" ID whole with that one way check valve filter....(SO THE DESIGN I HAVE AND THE THEORY GO) lol....and replacing the oil pan gasket!! which brings me to the UP TO DATE STUFF RIGHT NOW!!

The endless battle to vent PCV...we are not using this now...similar..but now its baffled with a check valve...new pics to come....


As of today and progress so far....Going to be cleaing the system out/off, examine flanges and welds, turbo, pump, recondition any parts ie, tbolt clamps, adjust as needed, etc... first things first after winter since im driving her in this stuff.....

Right now, my tuner is in Italy on business, he is excited to get back at this thing and iron out the above issues....probably sometime late this month or early March! Going to be going to the dyno to do the top end stuff if all goes to plan! I have to get some numbers together...

Gotta drop the new injectors in...tune that idol quality...DONE!

Im wrapping my exhaust pipe to keep that exhaust velocity:heat high to help spooling...Have to tune for those changes...so looking to do that right out the gate as well; its ordered...


Then, per my tuner...going to tune the system first before she gets a complete tranny rebuild from Dave at TEP!! Getting a alum. fin. tranny pan and a oil pan gasket and wanting to keep my tranny cooler, in hopes while Dave is dealing with the tranny, I can just have him link the cooler back up, throw on a pan gasket since the motor is right there, and then just have him swap my pans when he does the shift kit and valve body rebuild....but the dates and that part are all TENTATIVE...we know we are doing it, just getting the EXACT TIME with my finances and his business schedule...Have been in talks with Dave on getting some things together to have her tranny to him late March to early April! My dyno numbers upon tuning, will go to Dave and we will get the specs for the PI stall etc...and get that ordered a week or so in advance....per his method/instruction....I will be contacting him the last week of FEB. is our plan.
tranny pan ready to go with new tranny!!


Then back to my tuner for the final tweaks for the tune with the tranny!!
Looking into putting a hard line (braided) brake kit with Hawk pads from one of my sponsors (Speed Service Performance Center, Brownsburg, IN) http://www.speedservicellc.com/ Chuy and the guys are great!! Really stepped up to the plate in going out of their way for this build...
New 4" on the inlet for the filter no stack!

Then off to getting wheels and SLICKS!!! so any suggestions let me know...I can use all the help I can get...Im wanting M/T's with a 15" wheel...or just might do a drag radial from Nitto to keep it cross-bread...LOL...gotta do it right...

So there ya go...hope this will be the year for us!!!

Rossko85

iTrader: (11)

SHES TUNED!!! ITS TUNED!!! Got the oil pan gasket leak fixed by the dealer, Running on custom VE table below 3k rpm then on the LS2 MAF at 3k and above...we are on a conservative 11.5 AFR with ONLY 11* of timing!!! SO MUCH MORE....but keeping it mild right now until i get some springs and pushrods....then im going to E85!! my injectors are almost 69lbs at 4bar and im at 38% duty cycle....so plenty of room for the E85...105 octane boyz!!...METH EAT YOUR HEART OUT!!! Going for 500 at the wheels with the E85...but for now, this will do...

The MAF turned out well, the O2 is switching and the BETA WORKED!!! no cut out up top!!!!

I have some more video to share on top of this one.....this was after i made the drive back to my buddies house in danville from lafayette....the other video im waiting on is of my tuner and i running the cars...his 05 E85, donkey di%k cammed 6.0L GTO 6 speed manual vs. my gxp....he gets the run on me from the low end if im not boosting cause in third she is low in the rpms...but once we wait until about 3k rpm....we are neck and neck....I will also have my 157mph boosted 4th gear pass!!! and a 3rd gear dump and drag in front of him on the side of the road...HE BETTER HURRY IT UP...im getting anzy LOL...But his car is strong as hell!!! Thanks Joe!! (Joe6pt0)

these videos just dont do much justice...but this is with my buddy Kyle who weighs 275 and my buddy Dave in the back who is lite as a chicken....about 147...LOL...and a full trunk and me!! but it pulls like a SOB!!!

Off to the dyno prob next friday and then...

Off to TEP on March 18th for the full build up on the tranny!!> :mrgreen:








http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jgYMTnl7_Y

GXP25

iTrader: (3)

The enthusiasm and commitment to this is amazing.

I applaud this man.

I hope to see some more great things in the future!

AlabamaGuy

iTrader: (5)

I'm way too tired to read this tonight but I know it's awesome!

StealthV8

iTrader: (1)

I love all the info and details you give man, keep up the great work and thanks for sharing.

Rossko85

iTrader: (11)

So I guess my tuner is saying that the videos come out like light-blurps...but i told him i didnt care!! I told all I had them....i guess it will be an 157MPH light-blurp with sound then...we will get the idea! LOL....

Thanks guys for all your comments and the motivation!! We'll get there together thats for sure!! I have some pics im going to be moving over from photo bucket and placing in the corresponding thread/update portion they occured in...so look for those soon too guys...feel free to ask some questions...ill do the best I can...going with springs and rods next and E85! she should be pretty strong!! Prob first E85 LS4...but we will see!!

Panther427

e85 and boost i like it rosko. Wish i had the time and money to do all of that to my car. If you can get a good walk around video. On a lift if possible pop the hood, under the car show ect.

Rossko85

iTrader: (11)

ill get that out tonight to you guys..

Rossko85

iTrader: (11)

well...looks like some of the footage i have is MPEG...and i cant take it off of my computer to photobucket....IDK...any advice?? Im gonna get my own camera here shortly...i hate having to use the buddys through this whole build...its my iphone that got the pics but I dont have recording LOL

Garou24

Awesome build up! Even with your buddys in the car, she gets up and moves! Excited to see your next update.

geight8you

wow just wow.........

Rossko85

iTrader: (11)

First day of tuning in August of 2009
[URL=http://s816.photobucket.com/albums/zz89/rossko85/?action=view&current=GXPTurbotune1stday.flv][/URL

The venue!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugMmV13w-K8

Dyno run
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jR5qmP5azeU

Some tuning on the dyno after street tune
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQFD69peCow

dj_stylzpgh/GXP05

iTrader: (1)

What were the numbers after that Dyno run?

StealthV8

iTrader: (1)

i think when you are all said and done you should take all your vids and info and put in on a how-to dvd, i'd buy it... There is a lot of info here

Vectus

iTrader: (1)

X2 Looks great man, cant wait so see more.

Rossko85

iTrader: (11)

ASK AND THOU SHALL RECIEVE! LOL....here is the vid to the dyno run....we ended up with 390/446....i have a CD getting made of all my runs including my NA, N2O and baselines for all and the turbo...so a nice lil file of runs....the vid shows 385 but we got a 390....that was tuning the hell out of the pump gas and 7.7psi!! LOL

This is the walk around after some runs and us refrencing boost off a 3BAR MAP....there are quite a few vids i chose to put in here....have fun! hope you like....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4ojGkdtqk8

thank you for the compliments...Bob Viella of LS1TECH LS4 section LOL HP TV eat your heart out!! LOL


Its all for better of the cause though guys and gals!! LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FG_dBTx9z8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bx_Wy6_ylN0

Rossko85

iTrader: (11)

found some more vids...this is a cockpit view of the dyno pull....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZS5aguFcgc

Car walk around....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lg9QhKATwX4

Rossko85

iTrader: (11)

more vids up guys LOL