Cross

iTrader: (10)

Ok so I swapped my New (As in new rebuilt and modified LT4 with 3000 miles max on it) motor from My 96 Camaro to My 94 Formula.

I swapped the Coil and ICM.
I swapped the Knock Sensor.
I did not touch the wiring the 94 was running a stock LT1 before we did it and the Camaro was running (Although REALLY Rich) in the 96.
The ECU's were not swapped.

I have checked there are no codes according to my AutoXray.
The Security Light does not stay on.
There are no blown fuses.

I did get a weird sound like a tooth or two came off the flywheel o.O started sounded dead but I had it tested, put it back in same thing, moved the rear wheels and suddenly everything was fine....

I did the tests showed for checking voltage etc and came to believe it was the Opti so I replaced everything, Its all new. Put it back together and nothing.... it just cranks and cranks but does not start.

I put my Spark Tester on Plug #1... nothing. Never lights up at all.

I do have fuel as I can smell it but I have not done a fuel spec test yet. (Besides checking for voltage pulses)



WTF!!!! Both cars were fine before we did the swap now it hates me.

The only thing that's not even worth mentioning in my opinion is the ground strap that goes from the ICM to where ever you choose to mount it broke and I did not replace it. That's it. (This was not present on the Camaro its an extra strap from the bolt closest to the Fender well on the Mount Post for the ICM and Coil to the Head and it goes to the body)

I removed all the EGR and AIR stuff, all brackets, all lines all that is left is the connectors and I am just completely LOST.

I also removed anything related to the AirBag System I could find not sure that would cause this but I am mentioning it either way.

Can ANYONE PPPLLLEEEAASSEE Tell me WTF I am over looking?

----Update----

OK I did everything here:
http://www.mainstreamtopics.com/foru...p?showtopic=78

I failed the following (I checked beyond the first fail because its a new Opti)
The first thing we will do is verify the optical sensor is working correctly. And here is how..

Unhook 1 fuel injector connector. With your test light check for pulsing ground on the NON PINK wire while cranking the engine (different years use different color wires but all year have pink wires for the positive voltage side of the connectors) The other choice you have is to use the noid light (noid light AZ OEM part number 25143), plug the noid light into the connector and crank the car. The light should flash..

Do you have a flashing ground while cranking?

Yes, the optical sensor is sending the signal and should be ok, continue to test the ignition system.

No, the optical sensor is not working see testing opti section. My Result, However I tested at the PCM side of the wire connector at the Passenger side VC... its hard to get down to test where it requests.

That lead too;
If you failed the injector pulse test we must make sure that all the power is getting to the opti.

With the test light and the car on KOEO, unplug the opti connector at the optispark and test for hot at the red wire at the opti. do you have hot?

If yes. Next step My Result again I tested at the connector on the VC.

if no, the pos feed comes from the computer. Check that the PCM is sending the signal, if not then you might have a faulty PCM


Next, using a multi meter on volts scale, test the red/black and purple/white wires for 5 volts. Do you have 5 Volts?
Yes, next step 6 Volts on Each
No, The 5 volt reference is provided by the PCM, possible PCM failure or PCM power feed problem


Next, test the pink/black wire for ground. Do you have ground?
Yes, then the optical sensor is not working and is probably bad. based on the other tests run this is causing your no spark condition. It’s time to replace your opti. You can also check for corrosion or damage to the opti connector and replace as needed. This was my Result but as I said I just today put in the new Opti. While getting a new Opti that's bad is possible I am not buying it just yet.

No, the ground is provided by the PCM, possible PCM failure or PCM power feed problem.

--------------End of first batch of tests--------------

So because I felt it could not be the Opti I did the rest of the tests and ran into problems here:
Next we will see if the coil and ICM are causing the no spark.
First on the ICM connector with KOEO check for hot (93-95) on the Pink/Black and white/black wires or (96-97) on the Pink and Dark green wires. Do you have hot?

Yes, next step Yes I did.
No, (93-95) Check for hot at the pink wire a the ign coil. If you have power at the coil, but not at the ICM, The coil is shorted and preventing power from reaching the ICM. Replace the coil and retest. If you do not have hot at the coils pink wire, check the 10 amp Ign fuse. Repair as needed and retest.
(96-97) If you are missing hot on both wires at the module, check the 10amp ign fuse, Repair and retest. If you are missing hot only on the dark green wire, but not he pink wire, the coil has shorted and is preventing the voltage from reaching the module and must be replaced.

Next check for ground on the black wire. do you have ground?

Yes, next step Yes I did.
no, repair ground

next test for a pulsing ground at the dark green wire(96-97) or the White/black wire (93-95) at the coil coming from the ICM. Do you have a pulsing ground?

Yes, next step
No Replace the ICM *note, I have seen a bad coil burn up an ICM. It might be a good time to replace or upgrade your coil* Because of this I grabbed the other Coil and ICM and tested mixing them and completely changing them... still the same results and still no Spark.


next with your test light check for hot on the Pink wire at the coil. do you have hot?
Yes, Replace your coil *note, High resistance from bad plug wires can burn out coils. You can Ohm test plug wires or replace them if wanted* Because of this I grabbed the other Coil and ICM and tested mixing them and completely changing them... still the same results and still no Spark.

No, Check and repair ign fuse and retest

---------End of Tests here---------

So while doing this I obviously added that Ground Strap which did nothing... and I found these wires that I am not sure what they are too but they were just wrapped with electrical tape. It was like this when the prior owner got the car and I drove in the car I knew it ran... just no idea if these were to the Air System or what.
1 Black wire and 2 Tan and White wires that seem to be just one cut wire...
(I tested them and the Black grounds but it kicks on a relay in the fuse box I an hear it and the ground is faint the test light goes off and on. The two tan and whites ground out well.)
Ok with a voltage meter the following has been found:
Car off the Tan and White are Ground no volts and the Black has no volts.
Key on Engine off Tan and white are Ground and the Black has 12V.
Cranking the Tan and White have 6.5 Volts and Black has 12V.
They seem to be linked to the ABS as they click that Relay (Tan and White)



Its out of the same spot as the MAF, Coil and ICM Connectors and its 3 wires supplying 2V.

----More updates----
So I got my new MadZ28 Ecu and hopped maybe that would change it... nothing. (I have not redone the electrical but I am sure nothing has changed. I will look shortly.

This has to be something small I over looked when reinstalling the motor. What other connections, Grounds etc could I have over looked that would cause this? I really need the help guys this needs to be back up and running tomorrow as I do not have a ride (Or at this point a wife) anymore.

---Yet more updates and Pics added---
Ok I tried a new ICM no change, tested the coil its coming up good. I was going to buy an MSD coil tonight but it looked used and broken... Autozone.

---More to add---
The White wire coming off the PCM thats supposed to tell the ICM to spark is supposedly supposed to be at 12v... mine is at 9-9.5v.

Any idea's?

fergymoto

iTrader: (129)

Have you checked for fuel? I know have a spark problem but if it happens to be fuel AND spark it could be a PCM or power issue.

edit: Have you been through this no start diagnostic? It is pretty good http://www.mainstreamtopics.com/foru...p?showtopic=78

sweetbmxrider

iTrader: (13)

so a ground broke and you said **** it? i would replace the ground and check for spark from the coil. if the icm isn't grounded, it isn't working

Cross

iTrader: (10)

That's not what grounds the ICM though its an extra ground strap. I have added so many extra grounds this one I was not in a hurry for but sure I will go grab another ground and put it on.
(Also this ground wire was not present in the Camaro...)

I do have fuel as I can smell it but I will look through that test you spoke of.

I just find it odd I am getting no error codes...

I am updating the main thread to be clearer and add the information asked. However I did just remember I removed everything AirBag Related I could get my hands on not sure if that has any effect.

Cross

iTrader: (10)

Also check the Fuses again and everything is still just fine.

Cross

iTrader: (10)

OK I did everything here:
http://www.mainstreamtopics.com/foru...p?showtopic=78

I failed the following (I checked beyond the first fail because its a new Opti)
The first thing we will do is verify the optical sensor is working correctly. And here is how..

Unhook 1 fuel injector connector. With your test light check for pulsing ground on the NON PINK wire while cranking the engine (different years use different color wires but all year have pink wires for the positive voltage side of the connectors) The other choice you have is to use the noid light (noid light AZ OEM part number 25143), plug the noid light into the connector and crank the car. The light should flash..

Do you have a flashing ground while cranking?

Yes, the optical sensor is sending the signal and should be ok, continue to test the ignition system.

No, the optical sensor is not working see testing opti section. My Result, However I tested at the PCM side of the wire connector at the Passenger side VC... its hard to get down to test where it requests.

That lead too;
If you failed the injector pulse test we must make sure that all the power is getting to the opti.

With the test light and the car on KOEO, unplug the opti connector at the optispark and test for hot at the red wire at the opti. do you have hot?

If yes. Next step My Result again I tested at the connector on the VC.

if no, the pos feed comes from the computer. Check that the PCM is sending the signal, if not then you might have a faulty PCM


Next, using a multi meter on volts scale, test the red/black and purple/white wires for 5 volts. Do you have 5 Volts?
Yes, next step 6 Volts on Each
No, The 5 volt reference is provided by the PCM, possible PCM failure or PCM power feed problem


Next, test the pink/black wire for ground. Do you have ground?
Yes, then the optical sensor is not working and is probably bad. based on the other tests run this is causing your no spark condition. It’s time to replace your opti. You can also check for corrosion or damage to the opti connector and replace as needed. This was my Result but as I said I just today put in the new Opti. While getting a new Opti that's bad is possible I am not buying it just yet.

No, the ground is provided by the PCM, possible PCM failure or PCM power feed problem.

--------------End of first batch of tests--------------

So because I felt it could not be the Opti I did the rest of the tests and ran into problems here:
Next we will see if the coil and ICM are causing the no spark.
First on the ICM connector with KOEO check for hot (93-95) on the Pink/Black and white/black wires or (96-97) on the Pink and Dark green wires. Do you have hot?

Yes, next step Yes I did.
No, (93-95) Check for hot at the pink wire a the ign coil. If you have power at the coil, but not at the ICM, The coil is shorted and preventing power from reaching the ICM. Replace the coil and retest. If you do not have hot at the coils pink wire, check the 10 amp Ign fuse. Repair as needed and retest.
(96-97) If you are missing hot on both wires at the module, check the 10amp ign fuse, Repair and retest. If you are missing hot only on the dark green wire, but not he pink wire, the coil has shorted and is preventing the voltage from reaching the module and must be replaced.

Next check for ground on the black wire. do you have ground?

Yes, next step Yes I did.
no, repair ground

next test for a pulsing ground at the dark green wire(96-97) or the White/black wire (93-95) at the coil coming from the ICM. Do you have a pulsing ground?

Yes, next step
No Replace the ICM *note, I have seen a bad coil burn up an ICM. It might be a good time to replace or upgrade your coil* Because of this I grabbed the other Coil and ICM and tested mixing them and completely changing them... still the same results and still no Spark.


next with your test light check for hot on the Pink wire at the coil. do you have hot?
Yes, Replace your coil *note, High resistance from bad plug wires can burn out coils. You can Ohm test plug wires or replace them if wanted* Because of this I grabbed the other Coil and ICM and tested mixing them and completely changing them... still the same results and still no Spark.

No, Check and repair ign fuse and retest

---------End of Tests here---------

So while doing this I obviously added that Ground Strap which did nothing... and I found these wires that I am not sure what they are too but they were just wrapped with electrical tape. It was like this when the prior owner got the car and I drove in the car I knew it ran... just no idea if these were to the Air System or what.

(Trying to find camera cable or Card Reader... both suddenly are not where they belong...)

Its out of the same spot as the MAF, Coil and ICM Connectors and its 3 wires supplying 2V.

Cross

iTrader: (10)

In used the harness of the 96 so I think its ok...

So I got my MadZ28 Ecu today and still no spark with either ICM or Coil...

I have to be missing something here. What is something stupid that if not connected would not cause spark else where on the motor. I have to be missing something small and thats the cause of this.

When pulling a motor what would be missed or connected wrong or could go in the wrong spot etc.

csjta2

iTrader: (43)

The Optispark connector is different from 1994 to 1996

Are you sure your using the right Optispark Connector?

Just throwing out ideas

Cross

iTrader: (10)

Yes I am using the 96's Opti connector and the vented opti. Thats the only wire harness setup I carred over and it was just the part that connects to the Opti and at the VC that I kept.

csjta2

iTrader: (43)

Have you checked that connector closely, they are known to go bad

Cross

iTrader: (10)

I have looked at it a few times, did not see anything that made me think it was bad. Nothing obvious anyway.

csjta2

iTrader: (43)

Sometimes you cannot see the problem with the connector, the wires will actually corrode inside, you can check them with an ohm meter

again, just throwin out ideas

Cross

iTrader: (10)

Just did no problems at all no loss period... damit.

Cross

iTrader: (10)

New ICM does nothing but I found a new wire I added it to the front page with a pic of the other wires I found.

Its a ground near the PCM and it blows the interior IGM PCM Fuse. What do you think?

fergymoto

iTrader: (129)

Those wires by the coil and ICM are grounds. That's why it's not starting.

The wire by the PCM runs to the fuel pump and is for testing. Ignore that, it's not part of your problem.

Cross

iTrader: (10)

I grounded the black one nothing. I grounded the white ones and the wire started smoking that I connected to them.

Are you sure they are all grounds?

The whites are White/Black Stripe. The other is Solid Black.
The Whites have 2volts showing on them.

fergymoto

iTrader: (129)

It must be shorted out, they are grounds. There should be two tan with white line and one solid black(97 harness). Are you sure on the colors?

What year is the harness? OBDI could have different colors.

Cross

iTrader: (10)

94 harness and I am sure on the color.

fergymoto

iTrader: (129)

Do you have anything grounded on the coil studs besides the ground strap from the frame rail?

Cross

iTrader: (10)

Negative