Finally did the LS1 lid conversion
 

Well, I decided that I wanted to do atleast one of my mods that I had laying around, before I go to the track tomorrow. So, I finally bit the bullet, and decided on the LS1 lid conversion. I used an MTI carbon fiber lid, with a K&N filter. Here's a couple quick pics I took yesterday morning of it. I'm not 100% done with it though. I want to make a radiator cover for it, to help keep some of the engine bay heat away from the filter. Also, I know the engine bay's dirty, but I'm going to do a lot of work cleaning it up after this week, and have it good and clean for Spring.

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/1...0080912cv7.jpg

Here's a picture of where you have to cut, so the stock hook will clear the lid. I still need to smooth out the edges of the cuts though.
http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/6...0080913wv5.jpg


I'll try and get some more pics up later this afternoon or tonight.

Ummmm what is holding the lid down firmly onto the filter so that no dirt gets past it?

nice job just so peesp know where and what did you use for the rubber hoses to the throttle body and m.a.f

Can we get a few more pics man? I cant see where you cut, what is supporting the radiator, and what is being used as the lower air box for the lid. Looks great though! :)

So is there any real gain with this set up?

my gain was 2 tenths over the crappy moroso done at the track. that was also with a fram paper filter along with the stock Ls1 bellows.....

by far one of the fastest,benificial mod and cost wise,it cost me 50.00 and 15 min.

time at the drag strip isnt really a good way to measure gains because you could of just had a better run. Dyno proof would be better because i dont think there is 2 tenths gain with that lid over a CAI.

Hmmm can we clean up that bay a little bit please !!! LOL

Exactly...to much comes into play at the track. I wanna see some dyno numbers with the different set ups. Anyone?

You get those 1.7's on there yet? what time you going to the track tomorrow? might stop out...

well i will tell ya this,if your car ran consistant #'s and you changed something and now your car runs differently you would then suspect the mod you did is what caused it,correct?
i could give two shits about what a dyno says,dynos do not give time slips!:gtfo:
infact there are a few people that have had the same results look up "the merv"......

Looking to do this to mine too...what is holding the lid down? I had mine mocked up and was trying to figure it out

I think what he's getting at is there's a lot that comes into play at the track. Not doubting you noticed a change but in the end the BIG question is, does going with this style of CAI give gains that are worth while to do the swap?

I've seen the radiator supports for LS1 cars go cheap. You might be able to swap to one of those. :D

^^That won't fit..

With it I picked up about .2 easily, and 2 mph. It just flows better.

Here is pics of mine, I used Stainless Steel to hold it down and to keep the Radiator forward. I cut into the Core Support also.

A little before and after for you guys so you can see how it is setup..

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m...erv/ENGINE.jpg
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m...NGINEFRONT.jpg

I'm about to do this swap on mine, I plan on doing a back to back test, same day at the track with the ls1 lid and a moroso cold air kit.I will have a ws6 filter holder and a fast toys lid.Try to pick up a tenth or so and get the heavy ass car in the 6's.

For the amount of posts and threads on this topic it really makes me wonder how anyone can attempt to disprove the gains!
i guess the calculated version of the ws6 ram air was just a reason an engineer at GM came up with to justify his/her job!

The gains, IMHO, could easily be 2 tenths. In fact, I'm going to do that mod next, but need to find someone who has done it cleanly. No offense to anyone's ride here, but I want a factory look while retaining my SS hood.

i like the ls1 lid set up

I have no doubt in my mind that mod or a LT1 WS6 intake is better than a CAI. Way to much plumbing on a CAI and the filter is in a poor spot. IMO

Hear is a nice one i found..

wonder what hood they are using...?:confused:

^^That's not on a T/A..no way that's fitting under a stock LT1 Camaro Hood.

look closely - it is on a Camaro. I agree that it ain't a stock Z28 hood though...

factory lt1 style ws6 hood...

link?

Never mind that was a camaro with a cowl hood.But it fits under a ws6 hood too..

Yea, he's using a Cowl Hood, that's Revalations's Car if I'm not mistaken.

I sold him the SLP Bellow..;)

https://ls1tech.com/forums/lt1-lt4-m...d-lt1-car.html

lot of good info in this thread

that thread has the best info ive seen out there so far.

I remember saying almost that EXACT same thing the last time this was brought up.

I've heard a couple people talk about .2 gains, and I've heard other people say there was almost no gain. So I'd just like to see some dyno-proof.

A member by the name of "ksmyss" has a killer LS1 lid conversion, and super clean.. Damn near factory looking. Maybe he'll post up :)

this is on my list of "winter mods" as well..I'll be using the Fast Toys 85mm lid,to mate up with 85mm MAF..Should flow nicely ;)

This 2mph gain may bring me to some changes :) I really like the C6 Z induction idea in other link. I have no A/C or bumper support which would work well.

Why won't it fit? Hood clearance issues? I have an Ultra Z hood with plenty of room. :D

I've got some screws going through that are holding the filter and lid together, in the back.. I didn't need to put any in the front. It was already pretty firmly held on there, with a good seal whenever I tested it.

There's really nothing supporting the radiator, but in the position it's in, it's not really moving. I've got it pushed back as far as I can get it, and it's not hitting anything. There's also not really anything as a lower air box. I just notched out in the front, to make a little tray in the front for the filter, and some screws are going through the lid, in the back, holding the filter and the lid together, which is holding the filter up in the back.

Nope, still haven't gotten them on yet. I've got a friend that works at Oreilly's that has been to school for mechanics, and has built a handfull of different motors. He said if I gave him a little cash, he'd help me with the install. I think we may just go ahead and put a cam in it, while we're at it too. So, I'm hoping that'll happen sometime before spring rolls around.

As for going to Hangover Fest. I think I'm leaving home around 9. I'm meeting up with some local guys over in Galesburg, and then we're heading straight there. We'll probably get there right around the time the gates open (10:30). I'm hoping to get some runs in before too many people get there, and then watching for a while, then start running again after a little spectating.

Hey spence, I see you're from Monmouth. Was that car at the Fred Gibb cruise last August because I think i remember seeing a few polo green maros there? Oh and a buddy showed me the easiest way to install and adjust rockers...takes a solid hour maybe for the entire set, but I'll probably get burned at the stake for suggesting such sacriledge. And the adjustment is done with the engine running.

yea thats mine up there.

SLp lid, merv's SLP bellow, and stock radiator cover. and a 3" cowl hood.

No, I didn't make it out to the Fred Gibb cruise this past August. I was considering going, but backed out at the last minute, because I didn't really know anyone that was going.

Here's a couple more pictures I took earlier while I was changing the oil in the car. Also, the couplers that I used, were just the rubber couplers that came in my CRT intake elbow kit. I really wish that I could find an LT1 WS6 Ram Air smooth bellows though. It's a pain in the ass trying to get the rubber coupler to go from the TB to the MAF, since the TB's oval, and the MAF is round.
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/7...1081610my7.jpg
http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/8...1081611lh3.jpg
http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/1...1081612wk9.jpg

It's not bad looking, you have the right idea.

Personally IMO you need to support the Radiator and cover up the gaps.

Yeah, I'm going to try and finish it up this weekend. I need to get a thin sheet of metal to make the radiator cover out of, and also find something to fab up some radiator supports too. I'm sure I'll think of something. I think I may have found a new couple to run from the TB to the MAF too. It's the C4 Vette power coupler. (http://www.ecklers.com/product.asp?p...dept%5Fid=1758) The price seems a little outrageous though, for just a rubber coupler. I'm thinking, with how long that piece is, I may be able to do away with the coupler between the lid and the MAF. Then, just have the MAF going into the lid, like on LS1's. Then, it won't look so bad with the orange couplers.

Yea, it's expensive, but that is what this stuff costs, no way around it.

I highly doubt you honestly would gain 2 tenths or 20 hp just from that swap . Like posted too much comes into play at the track, u would have to do a back to back dyno run on the same day..To the thread starter I did just the opposite :lol:

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n...nj/GrnLT13.jpg

here is mine. i tried to make it not look like a hack job and something a little custom.

https://i204.photobucket.com/albums/...c/P1010017.jpg
https://i204.photobucket.com/albums/...c/P1010018.jpg
https://i204.photobucket.com/albums/...c/P1010019.jpg

where do you get the coupling that goes from the lt1 TB to the maf?

What is the piece that the lid sets on?

^^Radiator Delete there..lol

It looks like a thin piece of metal, and looks like he cut into the Core Support like I did.

LOL, so tell me this does a DYNO give you forced air at speed? NO it does not
does a DYNO give you a time slip NO it does not. so in all actuality racing the car down the track is the truth in what a car is producing.
how many cars have you seen DYNO high and run like crap at the track,i have friends that live on the dyno every change they make they hit the rollers it is a tunning instrument!
personally i do not care what you or anyone else says about the gain many people here have done it with similar results so that now turns the mod gain into a fact!
RAMAIR= path of least resistance,direct also means higher velocity

Exactly. I've noticed a gain from it, I cut-out the Fog Light holes more so I could get more air into that area. It works well.

I would agree the track would be the best test.

ET wise is hard to go by, but MPH doesn't lie

Yes sir,i went from 103.6 to 105.20 and the lid was the newest mod yes my car is a full interior,pleather interior car 3540 on the scales w/me in it...

I could careless also bro I have an LS1. What some guys says he ran i dont even know on a board or what his assometer was pegged at doesnt prove much either...Lets get GMHTP on this.

its a piece of flat stock that i bent in the brake to hole the raditor in place like the foctory piece. i made a tray that sits down into the support so the stock ss hood clears. i cut into the upper radiator support and welded it all back and boxed it in so it looks factory.

I did it. I used the stock bottom from an LS1, SLP lid and a C4 vett TB to MAS. Looks clean and factory! I get all kinds of compliments! as far as track times, don't know. It did seem to pull more!

There is no ram air effect from where the lid sits at the top of the radiator/condensor.

Also a quick look at a data log for anyone will tell them if they are pulling any vacuum up top. Even if there was a 10hp gain I hardly think it justifies letting all that unfiltered air into the motor, especially with how much dirt/debris the air dam picks up.

Where did anyone here say they aren't running a filter.... This is exactly like an LS1 setup. No unfiltered air has been getting into these guys motors. I'm sure they aren't borderline retarded.

I put in the go go fast motr..dur..:shiner:



I'm running a Filter, I think everyone is with the Lid, so how is un-filtered Air getting in?

never said anything about running w/o an air filter
the air dam under the core support shoots air up to the filter as well as the intended area(the radiator) so i would classify that as being a ramair yes it may just be a loose terminology but i will be damned if it does not work.....

like i stated earlier,there are people that have ACTUALLY done this mod and have had POSITIVE results above the CAI so if one has not done this mod they are fighting over baseless claims of their own admission..... BTW gm had every opportunity to use the same air induction that was offered on the Lt1 when building the Ls1 but they did not. why? one may ask!!!!!! i will just sit back and wait for the next post about why the lid either sucks in hot air from the radiator or something stupid like that from yet another person that has not any experience with this mod......LOL

Nice set up there.

Im curious about the gains people are getting from the FRTA and the SSRA.

I have a lid and FTRA to put on and than im hitting the dyno. I want to see the gains it will make. I think the two of them should be good for 15hp, we'll se tho.

I love seeing people make that assumption..lol

I have my Fog Lights out and that whole area cut-out so it's just normal air forced into the Radiator and the Lid when I drive. Technically it may not be Ram-Air, but how much closer can you get. :)

Does the track have the exact same conditions every time? No. Does your car run exactly the same every time? No.

I don't think ANYONE is doubting you, and no one is saying a dyno is perfect. But when comparing the gains between two parts, a dyno is the best tool to do so because you can set the variables to be the same. Unless your car is being driven by a robot, it's hard to do the same on the track.

I give you your props because you seem to know what your talking about, but I think you need to take a chill pill and realize no one is against you - we just demand solid dyno evidence.

I had a 4mph jump in trap speed at the track today. But, I've had the lid conversion, and tune since my last track appearance. Plus, conditions were way different. The other time I went it was 70+ degree weather in the summer, and this time it was 30 degree weather and no track prep. I was bogging bad from too much traction last time, and was roasting them through 2nd today, and felt it break traction in 3rd. So, way too many variables for me to judge on it. I did have a nice run with a cammed 383 LT1 on the way to the track today though. lol. It was a T/A with a 383 LT1 block and Comp Cams XFI292 cam. But, he was on stock heads, because he fucked something up on his other heads. I was able to keep within 5-6 carlengths on a 70 to around 135 run. lol

your statement is very good for comparison however the passes were back to back well, it was about 10-15 min apart and my car is very consistant,then again most people here don't bracket race either!

not mad at all but people stress dyno numbers but when you run at the track it is real world.......come on now that has to make sense!

But two dyno pulls will be a much better tool for comparison than two track pulls. Like I'm sure you've also still made runs where you car lost that extra two tenths that you originally gained - with a dyno, the pulls should stay damn near the same.

you have a good point aswell,however on the dyno you CANNOT simulate the air forcing its way to the lid in 3rd and 4th gear so you may not get the full amount of power.....the average fan that is placed in front is roughly a 15-20mph wind at best well at 1/8mile over 80mph i think the air being forced into the airdam is greater than the fan blown air! this mod is definately a mid and top end mod and i just do not feel a dyno can give the accuracy as the track can. i can be wrong but the proof for me was in the slips,the lid mod has been very good for me.:D

why the hell are you guys fighting about the power and gains in the 1/4 when you should be thinking about the appearance part of it. having a lid with !AIR and !AC is a phenomenal appearance upgrade for our engine bays. thats why i did it in the first place.

this was before i took the AC and AIR out. its definitely cleaner than a moroso/slp/k&n intake.

https://ls1tech.com/forums/picture.p...&pictureid=925

https://ls1tech.com/forums/picture.p...&pictureid=924

I need to take my A/C and AIR out. The AIR will probably come out this weekend, or sometime next week. It's just sitting in there unplugged anyways.

Hell someone will end up challenging that too!:D

Taking the AC out?!?!? Not in TX bubba! You'd die!

What is clamping the lid down to the filter in these setups? Also what kind of filter tray is being used and how is that being secured to the car? A lid laying on top of a filter will adequately filter the air.

And I have done actual testing on what kinds of pressure is generated under the stock radiator support and it was only 2-3 inches of water IIRC and it leveled off and stopped increasing around 80 mph. With no support there will be 0 pressure generated. On my datalogs I was running at about 97-98 KPA at the limiter so my intake setup is pulling very little to no vacuum.

I used a 4" to 3.5" coupler. It's made by Spectre which is the company who makes the DIY CAI's at the parts stores. The part # is SPT9741. There is an online store that has better prices than parts stores I can PM it to you if you want. The 4" to 3.5" was tight on the TB but it was also cold in my garage so the coupler wasn't very flexable. A few seconds with a heat gun and no problems!:D

This is the best pic of the 3.5" to 4" coupler I have now. It's under $20.00 and available in red and blue. I trying to decide if I want to do an LS1 lid or get some 3.5" tubing and put a filter in front of the radiator like the aftermarket vetts. I have a 4" cowl and no AC so no concern about room!

i can't remember the place i got my coupler. its a 4" - 4". i have the place on my computer at work.

my setup uses the same style rear mounts and i made a bracket for the front that holds it almost like stock.

i'm also going to build a lower intake box and it will get air from the fog light area only.

the whole reason i did this mode was an intake i am modifying. it will be around 2" taller than normal and i didn't want to cut up the stock ss air intake and i will not run the cold air set ups.

"i can't remember the place i got my coupler. its a 4" - 4". i have the place on my computer at work."

I thought that 4" couplers were shown to be 2 large on lt1 TB?

"i'm also going to build a lower intake box and it will get air from the fog light area only."


This last part is what I wanna do, if you could run 2 pieces of 3" flexible hose sealed to the back of the fog light opening and then make 2 3" round openings into the bottom of a filter tray you'd have real ram/cold air with little restriction

let us know how goes with the lid

I just picked up a lower airbox for an LS1 for my car. Looking for a lid. :D

pick it up used or from a dealer?

Found it on eBay for 20$. Should be here this week. Just sent the paypal for a lid for 50$. All I need is the bellow and a filter. :D

Anyone want to buy a K&N CAI or a 1LE elbow?

I couldnt agree more...especially seeing he apparently made these gains his next time out...guess the weather and track prep was exactly the same from the last time he was there :lol:

the lid was sawapped AT THE TRACK same day just about 15-20min apart