1st fire up after cam swap
 

well I tried firing it up to adjust the valve lash but it ran like crap, really choppy with the idle bouncing around from 400-800, and it also smelled pretty bad so I shut it down. I tightened the rockers down till ~4 threads were showing on the studs before starting it up like my mechanic buddy told me to, so is that to tight on LT1's and what is likely the cause of the choppy-ness? or could it be something else? and is the bad smell normal for the first fire up with all new gaskets and stuff? tia

I would imagine the choppiness is coming from your valves being all f'ed up, there are numerous guides to aid in setting up your valve lash but as for tightening them all down until 4 threads are showing, there is too much room for error there. Depending on the size of your cam there are only a couple ways to effectively do it, I go cylinder by cylinder, roll it over until the intake valve is part way down and adjust the exhaust and once the exhaust is past max lift and starts to close I then adjust the intake. New headers and certain products do smell for the first few heat cycles.

I was going to adjust them while running cause I know how to do it that way. I'll back everything off a bit and try again. or should I do it that way ^ to be safe?

it is entirely up to you but if you feel more comfortable adjusting them while they are running than I would adjust them either like the way I had mentioned then do them while they are running or you might be able to get away with doing the #1 TDC and #6 TDC method then go back through them with it running. I like to get them close that way you can hear the rocker that you are adjusting as opposed to having a few of them on the same bank clacking while you are trying to adjust

On my first fire up my car smelt really bad it would make my eyes water and almost choke me out lol. After about 20-30 mins of run time it went away.

Dont listen to your "mechanic buddy" anymore. tightening them down until you see 4 threads is really stupid and i cant believe you actually adjusted them that way. even with the million write-ups and shoebox's website there is no reason to listen to him anymore :D

adjust them the correct way following shoebox's site and come back.....


Do it with the engine off and get them close. then if you want to run the engine go ahead. there really is no need to do it with the engine running. its just a mess.

he's a really expeirenced mechanic but not with gen II or III sbc's and he told me to use that as a starting point not as the final adjustment. and w/ the engine running method is a proper way of adjusting valve lash, its even on shbox's site. getting them close and then firing it up is sort of a no brainer:eyes:

hey your the moron that posted the question, not me. I was just trying to help you out. your dealing with hydraulic lifters so adjusting them with the engine off or on will achieve the same result if you do it right. So there shouldnt be a need to do them twice or however many times you feel you need to do them.


but whatever, your mechanic buddy obviously knows more then everyone. Just keep on counting how many threads you see when adjusting them :rolleyes:

and how the hell did he come up with 4 threads? rocker studs can vary if your using stock studs or 7/16th studs. since the threads are thinner or more course. so the whole "4 threads will get you close" is absolutely rediculous

If everyone knew everything about these cars then these forums would be pointless. Someone should be able to come in here and ask a question without being flamed for not knowing the answer

Jesus Christ...

this thread is a fail

Sounds like you're overtightening. I prefer the engine running method, and don't think it's all that messy, just use a couple pieces of cardboard.

I'm a moron cause I'm green at this stuff? this was the 1st time lifting a valve cover and I tore the engine apart and put it all back together by myself and it runs:gtfo: don't be an ass just cause I pointed out a comment of yours was a no brainer. I suppose he said 4threads cause thats what it usually is on sbc's idk not saying he knows it all but hes been building engines for 30years. I think most people in the same position would listen to their experienced friend no?

As far as I know adjusting rockers on a Gen I SBC is the same as doing it on an LT1. Simply saying tighten them until 4 threads are showing is retarded. I don't know how he has been building engines for 30 years.

Check out shoebox's website and follow one of the methods he has there.

this is a method on shoebox's site? I just had to back off the bolts a bit and it started right up, I got one side done and I'll finish the other tonight.

Yea the tighten till you see 4 threads method is the worst idea ive ever herd. Hell he prolly uses an impact to put them on too. "Aaa just tq them to 250lbs, youll be fine", j/k!

Hey op, no problem being new to these engines. I would jump shbox's website and turn all your free time into read time. This will save you a bunch of money and frustration in the end. G/L

alright so I got had them close and was doing it with the w/ engine running method but couldn't get them to quiet down all the way so I ended up adjusting the valves with the engine off..brought number 1 to TDC and did I: 1,2,5,7 E:1,3,4,8 then turned it over 360deg and did I:3,4,6,8 E:2,5,6,7 bringing it to zero lash and then did 3/4 of a turn.. and then the engine wouldn't fire up. I figured I messed something up so I did it over again and it still wouldn't start, so I did it 2 more times and know for sure I did it right but its not firing up. It fired right up before when I had the valves loose(but ran real rough) so I'm pretty confused right now. should I try backing them off a ~1/4 of a turn? or does it sound like something else is wrong?

how are you verifying #1 TDC?

by the mark on the hub which I lined up when installing.

when that mark on the hub is pointing up you could either be at #1 or #6 TDC, that may be your problem. The only way to really tell is by the position of the valve, #1 TDC both valves on #1 will be closed and #6 exhaust valve should be open. Also adjusting valves that way is good for stock valvetrains but not really that great of a method for aftermarket cams because of the valve overlap. If you want to do it right go cylinder by cylinder to ensure that the lifter is on base circle before you set your lash.

I was actually just thinking the same thing. I was thinking that could be the only thing I might of messed up. and heres a bad thought, now what if I messed that up when the cam went in and instead of having #1TDC I had number #6TDC:eek: in that case referencing the mark on the hub 180deg wouldn''t help and I would have to pull the cam and re-do it correct?

btw everybody with the valves properly lashed there was 5threads showing on the head studs;)

I agree the cylinder to cylinder method is the only way imo, thats how we installed the comp 1.7's on the 383. Fwiw we went 1/2 turn on the lash.

edit* I have actually herd a few talk about that method(never actually adjusted them that way tho lol), but on a high performance application it's better to do it the right way(cylinder to cylinder method).These guys were regular mechanics that mainly work on stock vehicles. Your mechanic prolly has done so many sets of rockers on a *stock vehicle that he can prolly eyeball the lash by thread count yes. On your setup thats completely wrong. If he told you it was 4 threads and it was actually 5, a full turn off is quite a bit of difference is it not lol.

alright I've been thinking about it some more and the valve events were right with the mark on the hub I was using for TDC. ...so I'm thinking I might of mixed that up when I put the cam in and had #6 @ TDC and not #1. would that cause what I'm experiencing now making it run only when the valves are loose(basically retarding the timing right?). its the only possibility I can come up with but im certainly not a pro, what do you guys think? if I did indeed screw up on the cam install I have to do it over right? and can't just add 180degrees to the mark on the hub for TDC right? thanks for the responses!

more thinking.. I installed the cam the same way it came out with the dowel pin @ 3o'clock, installed the timing gear dot to dot and installed the opti with the big hole at 3o'clock and then put the crank hub on with the mark at 12o'clock. so its not as bad as I thought last night right? all I have to do is use the opposite side of the mark on the hub for reaching TDC right? I may have been confused on the valve events last night, hopefully I just have to re-do the lash..again but CORRECTLY this time:D and this time around I'll bring each cylinder to TDC I guess to deal with the overlap in the cam. is my thinking correct tho? tia

no thats not right either is it.. I'm confused. could it all be from the overlap, or is there some thing I'm not seeing?

i think your not at the correct position when adjusting them. keep trying

I forgot to mention the SES came on figuring it was just on due to how rough it was running. a buddy of mine is swinging by w/ a scan tool later today. this doesn't sound like it could be a problem with my crank position sensor tho does it? can they get messed up from hammering in the new seals on the TC cover? I don't see how I could be getting the TDC position wrong, I'm adjusting them right after overlap occurs, this is correct right? hopefully the problem is just from the overlap in the cam and from not doing it cylinder to cylinder, how ever a 226/234 112lsa cam is not that radical but could it be enough to create a no start situation after adjusting the valve lash the way I did?

Take out your #1 plug, put your finger over the hole (Not in it) crank in short burst until you feel the pressure blow past your finger. This is the compression stroke that you need to adjust to. See how far off you are then you are that far off on all cylinders. Did you prime the new lifters?

Best way I've found almost exact TDC is to pull the #1 plug, stick an oversized straw (McDonalds straw works well) into the plug hole and hand crank using a long socket wrench on the crank bolt until piston is close to TDC on the compression stroke and then start tugging on the straw and turn crank accordingly until the most resistance is felt. BAM- TDC... :)

EOIC method is far more accurate though:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPOaAsuzhsE

How are you finding zero lash? Seen a LOT of mistakes made on that.


Far as the threads showing thing that would be affected by the rocker choice, the guideplate presense/thickness, the polylock height, the stud lenght, the stud diameter. I assume you changed ALL of that from stock.

Your mechanic buddies plan might work on some engines, not going to work this modded though.

I wish someone would have posted that video when I was trying to adjust mine a couple years ago. lol

I re-used the stock lifters and submerged them in oil before re-installing.

I'll have to try that method, I just eyeballed the valve events like that guy in the vid to find TDC, I'll use the EOIC method next time too.
I pulled the PR's up and down while tightening the nut making sure the socket wasn't touching the rocker and stopped as soon as there was no play left.
I had to cut costs when doing this, especially after paying a shop $400 to replace the rear main when it was really the intake mani gasket. So I skimped on the valve train figuring it was the easiest and best pieces to skimp on and to get to doing later, I would of like to of replaced everything but I had to make do w/ what I had to work with. I re-used the stock rockers, studs, and lifters, theres no guideplates or polylocks. I used the 918's I had on a set of spare heads I had laying around for porting that had been machined for a spring height of 1.84" and larger valves..and I do not know if these are stock length valves or not. AI sent me 7.150 PR's which they say were right for the cam, I was going to use the sharpie test to confirm they were the correct length but I'm having trouble reaching that point. I'm still planning on re-doing the lash the EOIC method later today and hoping that solves the problem unless it sounds like a have a different problem:confused: thanks again!

if you have not had the car tuned for the cam...it typically will not idle right, hunt/surge on RPM's.

you need to confirm you get the valves adjustment right, and confirm the cam is installed correctly

if using the stock rockers and nuts just tighten the nut down until there is no longer ANY up/down movement of the PR. Frankly this is harder to do with stock rocker nuts. Then turn nut 1/2 turn more past "zero" lash. FWIW I prefer the engine off do 1/2 of the respective valves, rotate engine 360 degrees and do the other 1/2.

you might want to pick up a $15 Haynes service book. It explains that process well.

I've got a haynes and followed the process to the T after failing trying to adjust them w/ the engine running, but I guess I actually didn't fail as bad as I did doing it with the engine off since it was at least running. I haven't gotten the computer re-tuned for the cam yet so I'm expecting a choppy idle, but choppy and running like crap are two different things. and this time around I'm going to bring each cylinder to TDC to adjust the valves instead of spinning it 360deg once in case its a problem from the overlap in the cam and I'll also try adding only a 1/2 turn instead of 3/4turn.

alright so this time I set the preload at 1/2turn instead of 3/4 and it fired up, idled around 500 running real rough(idle set at 1k) and then it started stalling and the gas pedal didn't help so I turned it off and backed off the valves a 1/8turn and tried starting it up and it just sputtered. so I backed off the valves another 1/8turn and it mostly just turns over with some sputters here and there. now I'm really confused cause it ran before when the valves were even looser. I'm still waiting on getting it scanned which won't be til tomorrow now. what could the possibly be causing this? I eyeballed the dowel on the cam @ 3o'clock but if I was slightly off would it cause symptoms like this? IDK what else to check out, hope this aint it for the season:(

ummm yeah! :poke:

You should of looked at the timing chain dots rather then looking at the dowel pin. You probably fucked something up upon cam install.

Unfortunately you're going to continue to run in circles on this unless you decide to use the method that's recommended by virtually all the cam companies and magazine tech articles.

It has nothing to do with finding TDC or counting rocker stud threads or removing a spark plug.

Now I know that guys have their own favorite way of adjust lifter PRELOAD (which is what you're doing) and because these guys have done it before and KNOW how to do it, to them it's easy. But to someone who hasn't done it before it's soooooooo confusing and error prone.

Wish I had a dollar for every thread I've read and responded to from guys going through exactly the same thing that your are. I know how frustrating it is and how much time and energy you're expending and STILL not getting the results you want.

Simple answer, do it the way the PROS do it and the way they recommend it be done. Otherwise you're probably going to continue to have these same, failed results.

One thing you must understand: THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF SETTING LIFTER PRELOAD IS TO MAKE ABSOLUTELY SURE THAT THE LIFTER YOU'RE ADJUSTING IS RIDING ON THE BASE CIRCLE OF THE CAMSHAFT LOBE. If it's not, any setting will NOT be correct.

The recommended method DOES NOT involve removing the #1 spark plug, watching the damper/hub or switching back and forth from one side of the engine to the other. It's simple, methodical and, just by paying attention to what you're doing, easy to do and remember.

Here it is; print it out and take it with you when next you bend over the engine:

First off let me say that there are several different ways to set lifter preload and all of them will work, but only if done correctly. The difference among the various methods is that one method is less error prone than the others.

The method shown in many manuals, like Chilton's, FSM etc., will have you moving from one side of the engine to the other trying to identify and set different lifters. Doing it that way makes it really easy to mis-identify one of them (you'll adjust an intake when you should have adjusted an exhaust, etc.) Only after the engine is started will you find that you'd made a mistake, then it becomes the task of finding out which one was set wrong.

The least error prone method is the one I'm writing about now.

Okay, here's the procedure:

The goal is to adjust the rocker arm adjusting nut enough so that it depresses the pushrod and thus the lifter plunger .030"/.040". Since it would be very difficult to actually measure that amount - requiring a dial indicator with a magnetic base, etc., turning the adjusting nut a certain amount will work just fine.

A word of Caution: If the engine has been run, before using this procedure, you'll need to loosen all the rocker nuts to relieve any pressure on the lifters and wait about a minute. This gives the lifter plungers time to travel back to the top of the lifter and not be depressed. If you fail to do this, you could have a false ZERO lash position which will effect the correct preload. More on ZERO lash will follow.

Most importantly, in order for the lifter preload to be set correctly, the lifter HAS TO BE on the base circle/heel of its camshaft lobe. This warranted repeating.

Since there's no way to actually SEE if the lifer is on the base circle/heel, you watch what its companion pushrod does in order to know. You watch the intake to set the exhaust, then watch the exhaust to set the intake.

May sound crazy but that's how it's done.

To begin, install all the pushrods in their respective lifter and set the rockers and adjusting nuts loosely in place. Then you'll need a way to turn the engine in it's normal direction of rotation. I use a ratchet, extension and socket on the damper nut. Having the spark plugs removed will make the engine much easier to turn too.

Start at the driver's side, front, very first rocker, which will be the #1 EXHAUST. We'll be setting that one first.

Grab the pushrod of next to it, which will be the #1 INTAKE pushrod, with your thumb and index finger so that the pushrod can be moved UP and DOWN.

Turn the engine while feeling what the #1 INTAKE pushrod is doing. That pushrod will, at some point, begin to move up (indicating the INTAKE valve is beginning to open) and then down.

Just before that pushrod is all the way back down, STOP turning the engine. The actual point that you STOP isn't all that critical, just as long as the pushrod has moved more than half way back down.

With the #1 INTAKE pushrod in that position, the #1 EXHAUST lifter will be on the base circle of its lobe.

Now, back to the INTAKE pushrod being almost all the way back down - Move your hand to the #1 EXHAUST pushrod and begin to gently move it up and down with your finger/thumb while at the same time begin to tighten the #1 EXHAUST adjusting nut.

When you reach the point that the #1 EXHAUST pushrod can no longer be moved up and down you've found what we call ZERO LASH.

It's now time to set the lifter PRELOAD on the #1 EXHAUST lifter. Most use 1/2 turn of PRELOAD, so turn the adjusting nut 1/2-3/4 turns more from ZERO LASH. This'll depress the lifter plunger and give you right at .030"/.040" of
PRELOAD.

1/2 turn equals the handle of wrench at, say, 12 o'clock, then turn the wrench until the handle points at 6 o'clock.

If you're using Poly-locks, once that 1/2-3/4 turns is made, tighten the Allen head poly lock with your Allen wrench. Make sure it's tight!

That one's done.

Now we move on to setting the #1 INTAKE.

To set the INTAKE, we grab the #1 EXHAUST pushrod (the one we just finished setting) with those same two little fingers - or you can just watch what the rocker is doing - either way works.

Begin, again, to turn the engine over manually while watching the #1 EXHAUST rocker or feeling its pushrod. AS SOON as you see the #1 EXHAUST rocker begin to open that valve or feel the #1 EXHAUST pushrod begin to move UP, STOP. You just found the point that the #1 INTAKE lifter is on its base circle of its lobe.

Now grab the #1 INTAKE pushrod with your index finger and thumb and begin to gently move that pushrod up and down as you slowly tighten its adjusting nut. When that pushrod can no longer be moved up or down you've just found ZERO LASH for the #1 INTAKE.

Again, tighten the adjusting nut an additional 1/2-3/4 turns to set the .030"/.040" preload and tighten the Allen head screw, TIGHT.

The #1 INTAKE and #1 EXHAUST are now set. Now move on to the very next pair, #3s and do the same thing. Continue working down the line to #5 then #7.

Once done, move to the other side of the engine and begin at the very first, front rocker/pushrod (#2) and repeat, going straight down the line. After you're finished with #8 EXHAUST, you're done.

If you just do one after the other, straight down the line, you won't skip any and each will be set properly.

JUST REMEMBER: The valve arrangement is EIIEEIIE with E=EXHAUST and I=INTAKE It's important to know which valve you're working on, an INTAKE or an EXHAUST.

After you've tried all the other competing methods and have finished pulling out your hair, do it this way and be done with it. Hope this helps.

Jake

West Point ROCKS!

???I don't think I understand. the timing gear is off when the cam goes in, what dots would've I been looking at? I put the cam in the same way it came out with the dowel pin at 3o'clock(which *could* of just barley been off) and then I put the timing chain back on and lined the dot's up on the sprockets top to bottom perfectly. is that not correct?

thanks for the reply I guess I'll do it again that way if you think the valve lash is still the culprit.

If you installed the cam with dot to dot (12 o'clock on the crank gear and 6 o'clock on the cam gear) and the dowel pin was at 3 o'clock, you did it RIGHT.

If BOTH dots were at the 12 o'clock position, then the dowel pin should have been at the 9 o'clock position.

As long as you selected the correct hole in the OPTI for the dowel pin, you're good to go. If the OPTI had been incorrectly installed the engine would either NOT run at all or BACK-FIRE like crazy; most likely the former.

Jake

West Point ROCKS!

Ok man this is how I adjusted my rockers after a COMP rocker stud change, (cheap china made stud broke after I got the car...) So, I would bump over the motor and find which rocker was loose and I would tighten until the slack (from side to side) was gone. (It takes a little while, yes, but my car is running fine, and have no lifter noise still for 2 months now LOL) Also my socket was too thick so when I tried to adjust the rockers with the car running it would kind of bogg down, and it would be hard to get my socket out, so believe it or not, I adjusted mine with the engine not running, so it can be done :D . Point being, none of the rockers are supposed to be loose... So just keep bumping the motor over and adjusting until the slack is all out of them, and run it for a few minutes, the adjust them again. If that doesnt work then sounds like you are off a tooth on your timing gear. :bang:

DOT TO DOT= DOWEL PIN AT 3 O'CLOCK

12 O'CLOCK TO 12 O'CLOCK= DOWEL PIN AT 9 O'CLOCK.

Jake

West Point ROCKS!

Once you set the lifter preload and the engine fires, it'll probably go through "teething pains" and will probably need playing with the throttle to keep it running, especially at low RPMs. This is normal; I just went through it with my son's 96 LT1 cam and head swap.

A PCM tune will cure this, but unless or until you have it done, you'll probably have to manually raise the idle RPMs. How much depends on the cam and other engine mods, but somewhere in the range of 850 RPMs should work to keep the engine running in gear, foot on brake conditions.

In the past I've just folded a piece of a match book cover (paper) or something similar and placed it at the throttle body lever to keep the idle UP as a temporary way to keep the engine running while it warms up.

WATCH YOUR OIL PRESSURE AND COOLANT TEMPERATURE LIKE A HAWK!

Jake

West Point ROCKS!

yeah thats how I did it, 12 & 6 o'clock and lined 'em up perfectly with a straight edge, I wasn't so precise with the 3o'clock dowel position I just eyeballed that, it looked like 3 to me and my mechanic friend when he checked it anyways. if its position was SLIGHTLY off would it make problems like I'm having? I put the opti on perfectly as well, the dowel wouldn't of fit in any of the other holes anyways.

oil pressure was good but the 1st time I had it running while adjusting the valves it got pretty hot, I'm not sure if it was because of the improper lash or if I have/had an air pocket in my cooling system. I haven't had it running long enough since then to see if it will climb like that again. also the was quite a bit of steam coming out the tail pipes which my friend said was just from condensation that formed when having it apart and the new gaskets. I torqued EVERYTHING to spec and I know I RTV'd the intake mani good and it had plenty of cure time.. but if I did mess one of those things up it should still start fine right?

alright I think I'm on to something, I stuck my finger in #1's spark plug hole and rotated the crank until the air wasn't squeezing by my finger and the mark on the hub I was using for TDC was at 9o'clock and not 12. I don't know how its possible but its not where I put it when I put it on w/ it @ 12 w/ #6 TDC. I know you guys told me to confirm that earlier but I just ASSumed it wasn't possible. I'll re-djust the valves to that and check back in.

well it fired right up but was running rough again and started stumbling so I went to give it some gas on the TB and when my hand got close to the rubber intake boot I started getting shocked. is this a ground problem? the only ones I took off were the two on the coil and they both go back onto the right mount bolt for the coil right?

jeez 5 posts in a row now.. anyways
I'm stumped again.. this makes no sense! I had a plug wire that wasn't quite on all the way so I fixed that and now it won't fire up again! it just cranks the then when I stop cranking it it will turn over a few more times.
do I have these grounds right? if its hard to tell I put the double one on first then the single one. I also pulled that pig tail back out because its was suspected to be for the AIR pump but never positively confirmed.
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...r/100_0828.jpg

I triple checked the wire connections and order. ...don't know what else to do:confused:

alright i may have an idea what you did. when you went to adjust rockers the first time you were looking at rocker position to determin TDC blah blah blah.... all fine, you marked the hub when the the intake valve came all the way up. It does take another 1/4 turn of the crank after the intake rocker comes up to be in the correct position for adjusting

BECAUSE when the intake rocker closes the piston is still at the bottom of the stroke. obviously you dont want the piston to push the air/gas out of the engine. So when you tried the other method of putting your finger in the hole you actually found TDC at the right time which would put your mark at 9 when it shouldve been at 12.


make sense??

yeah I get that whole part and already re-did the lash w/ #1 & #6 at (the correct)TDC. but why it fired up with a slightly loose plug wire and had electricity running rampant across the engine bay and now won't fire up that the wire is correctly on does not make ANY sense to me, other than maybe I installed ^^^those two grounds wrong but why then did it fire w/ a loose boot and not now? :confused::bang:

ok so I've been going over everything..again, and noticed another questionable thing on top of those^^ grounds. I noticed a pic of the EVAP system on shbox's site doesn't match mine>
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...r/100_0829.jpg
he has the same type of tube coming out the bottom nipple as he does the top one while I have a rubber hose going into it from the EVAP solenoid, which I had asked about earlier on and got this answer>
I just assumed SSR was mistaken saying that the rubber hose does not plug into anything, does it or don't it plug into the intake mani? cause here>
http://shbox.com/1/evap_sol.jpg
it says the bottom nipple plugs into the plastic line bundled w/ the fuel lines..but that goes to the evap solenoid.. I wouldn't suspect this is actually the root of my problems, but I'm running out of ideas.

well I got it running again but it doesn't want to rev over 1k if that gives anyone some ideas..? hoping I don't have to tear back into the internals just to check my work which I don't think is wrong..

the one line goes to the evap canister. (the plastic thing that goes under the throttle body to the bundle of fuel lines). the other line on that solenoid goes to the middle port on the throttle body. then on the bottom of that solenoid is a very small rubber hose. thats is a vent and doesnt plug into anything

my solenoid didn't have a vent on it unless it is that rubber hose that I plugged into the bottom nipple on the intake mani? and thanks badazz, I think everyone else gave up like I'm about to:bang:

the vent line is literally a 1in piece of hose w/ a 90* bend. it doesnt connect to anyhting. It really isnt anything to worry about. What do you mean the bottom port on the intake? do you mean on the throttle body? if thats the case you have it on the wrong one. the bottom port is for the coolant that flows through the throttle. i believe you did the bypass so that will just remain un-pluggled.

you need the evap hose connected to the middle port. the top one is for that tube that connects to the top of the valve cover

woops I meant the bottom connection on the EVAP purge solenoid and thats^^ the way I have the lines run.

heres I vid I just took, hopefully it helps!
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...h_100_0831.jpg
I had to keep tapping the gas to keep it running and its also running pig rich!

I have to admit that I gave up on you once I saw that you are still checking for TDC, where the hub is pointing, etc. when trying to set the lifter preload.

As I wrote before, using the method that most, if not all, of the cam companies, Tech writers, PROs, etc., use on Chevy engines does NOT involve anything dealing with TDC.

Also, it doesn't involve setting the preload on one lifter on the driver's side then going over to the other side of the engine to set one over there.

Haven't you ever watched the guys with REALLY fast cars go through their valves between rounds at the track? Yes, they're setting LASH not preload, but the the procedure is the same. Watch the intake to set the exhaust, then watch the exhaust to set the intake. The IC/EO method.

I've tried to help, but it seems you've chosen your own, different method. Sorry, I've done the best I can do, so I'll just leave it for you and the other members to work out.

"Lead a horse to water but can't make it drink" comes to mind.

Good Luck to you.

Jake

West Point ROCKS!

I understand that but I'm working by myself and since the whole front of the engine is assembled I can't turn the engine over and watch the valve events at the same time. I understand the method you described is the most accurate but the way I did it, especially last time should still get it close enough to run long enough for me to fine tune it with the car running. do you really think this is all from improper valve lash? if so I'll see if I can get someone to help me turn the crank while I watch the valves, I sort of think theres something else going on tho jimho, course I'm no expert..

edit:some one else asked me to make another vid while tryin to rev it up, I was hitting the gas the entire video and it still stalled on me, also it only revved to 1k for a few seconds on the 2nd start up while having my foot to the floor.
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...oo100_0832.jpg

you sure you got the opti on right?

I'd say so, I've been thinking about pulling it to double check but only if theres nothing else left to check. I had a hard time lining it up and getting it on and it looked like the dowel pin on the cam wouldn't fit in any of the other holes anyways, I even tried having a piece of wire on the underside of the opti drive while putting pressure on it and couldn't get it on. finally I had my mechanic friend come over and help and he lined the proper hole up and had that thing on in under a minute. the opti didn't get a drop of water on it either btw. does it sound like a mis-aligned opti?

I do know a mis aligned opti will run like shit and hardly idle. Ask me how I know!!

thanks for the response! If the opti was mis-aligned it would throw an opti code? if so I'll wait to my friend can come scan it for me, if it won't throw an opti code I'll check it out tomorrow.

alright so get this! I replaced the O2's w/ some old ones that were in the stock manifolds and unplugged the MAF and it fired right up! it was running how I imagine an un-tuned cammed car would run, choppy and slightly rough but when I hit the gas it didn't hesitate a bit and would rev right up and smooth out altho I only had the balls to rev it to 2k rpms. figuring I solved the problem I shut it down(it was still wanting to stall some on idle) to go close the cut out so I could hear the rockers better to check the lash adjustment. but when I fired it back up it didn't start so easy and I had to give it some gas to start, then it wouldn't rev up like before, no matter how much gas I gave it it wouldn't rev over 500rpms. I plugged the MAF back in and tried again but got the same thing and thats when I shot this vid> http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...h_100_0833.jpg
hopefully some one will have some ideas.. or hopefully scanning the codes will solve this problem, but I'm still waiting on my friend for that.
edit: also it doesn't smell as strongly of raw gas anymore, it still smells rich but has more of a sulfer smell to it. I pulled an o2 and a spark plug to see if either were getting fouled but they looked fine.
double edit: I unplugged the o2's and it starts right up again but the rpms will only climb some in the 1st few seconds then it drops to 500rpm again.

if theres anyone still reading:jest: : it fires right up and will rev up w/ the cut out open but struggles to fire up and won't rev up w/ the cut out closed. that should help some one I'd think, it confuses me tho!:D

It sounds to me like there is a substantial exhaust blockage for it to only run with the cutout open. You will need to disconnect the ehaust components one at a time to pin point the location of the problem.

sounds like a plugged cat if that is the case

well I just dropped the Y-pipe and it still wants to stall and not rev up. do you guys think the blockage might be in the head? after I heard exhaust blockage I realized there MIGHT be a piece of paper towel that was left in the intake. I'm a dumbass if there is:poke: should that blow through or could it get stuck in the chamber if there is 1 in there? I know all cylinders are firing..

your igniting gas under pressure in a chamber, paper shouldn't stand a chance lol, wow!

LOL!
anyways the codes were for the MAF sensor and the crank position sensor. we checked the connections and continuities and..half the stuff my buddy was saying was over my head, I hate electrics & wiring but he's wondering if my PCM is alright. I don't see how it could of gotten fried but there might be a loose connection some where. we checked all the fuses and cleared the codes after that and fired it up twice and no codes popped up. he's gonna check some stuff out at work and think about a couple of things and try to figure it out tomorrow.