power dies at 6400rpm.
10-13-2010, 07:57 PM
#44
I have personally seen some issues with scorpion rockers...I have been very happy with the comps though.... apples and oranges i suppose....
A for attention to detail.... Install height is very critical to spring install and a lot of guys overlook it or think "it should be fine"..... also if the install height was too high to begin with the spring won't handle as much lift and as they get older it of course gets worse and you have an uncontrolled valve train..... i have also heard a lot of negative things about the beehives however that is a completely different thread all together and there are plenty of guys on here running them with great success..every motor and combo is different.....
Also everyone has different ways to adjust valves...so you have to decifer the "good" way from the way that someones uncles brothers best friends buddy adjusted there valves on thier 1970 pick up truck......
go to shbox site and use one of the valve adjustment write ups that you feel comfortable with....
also I have a set of shims on the shelve of my garage from a recent spring install I did with Patriot Extremes...If you need them let me know and I will ship them to you...
Matt
A for attention to detail.... Install height is very critical to spring install and a lot of guys overlook it or think "it should be fine"..... also if the install height was too high to begin with the spring won't handle as much lift and as they get older it of course gets worse and you have an uncontrolled valve train..... i have also heard a lot of negative things about the beehives however that is a completely different thread all together and there are plenty of guys on here running them with great success..every motor and combo is different.....
Also everyone has different ways to adjust valves...so you have to decifer the "good" way from the way that someones uncles brothers best friends buddy adjusted there valves on thier 1970 pick up truck......
go to shbox site and use one of the valve adjustment write ups that you feel comfortable with....
also I have a set of shims on the shelve of my garage from a recent spring install I did with Patriot Extremes...If you need them let me know and I will ship them to you...
Matt
10-13-2010, 08:12 PM
#45
yea... picking springs by rated max lift, and not knowing where there installed at sounds like a complete lack of attention to detail. Not to mention several year old valve springs, and questionable methods of finding zero lash. This is why there are professionals, and this is why some people should let professionals do everything. Then again, 70% of "professionals" are a joke.
Either way, my heads were assembled by a professional that's been assembling motors for 20+ years, obviously that doesn't mean he's doing it the right way but we've never had any issues. I told him what my camshaft specs were, what rockers I was running and all other pertinent information and he set the springs up to what they needed to be at.
All I did was bolt the heads to the motor and adjust the rockers. I did the same thing that shbox lists on his How To guide when adjusting my rockers as well.
10-14-2010, 10:28 AM
#47
OP. At a glance it looks like valve float and if that is the case, most likely, the 918's are not controlling the valves assuming its not the dude behind the gas pedal. I once had a valve float condition and my graph looked just like your but mine fell off the cliff at 6K RPM.
As its already has been said, some get away with beehives while others do not. LT1 valves are 11/32" on the stems and weigh more than the LS1's 8mm valve stem so based on that alone, it is harder for the beehive spring to control the heavier LT1 valve. The lobe profile also plays a big role in determing if the beehives will work properly. I once had a cam with an agressive lobe and only a Manley beehive would control it properly.
I pulled that cam and installed a slightly less agressive one and decided to jump off the beehive bandwagon and go to a dual spring as well. I am currently running the Patriot Extremes and have no issues period. In all fairness, I am not sure how well the beehive would work with my current cam.
FWIW, from what I have seen on this board, many of the folks who have determined that float was their problem, they were using beehives. Yes its possible that setup could be the issue, but I dont think that was the root cause in my case. Right now, my LT1 can spin to 7K RPM with no sign of float from looking at the dyno chart.
As its already has been said, some get away with beehives while others do not. LT1 valves are 11/32" on the stems and weigh more than the LS1's 8mm valve stem so based on that alone, it is harder for the beehive spring to control the heavier LT1 valve. The lobe profile also plays a big role in determing if the beehives will work properly. I once had a cam with an agressive lobe and only a Manley beehive would control it properly.
I pulled that cam and installed a slightly less agressive one and decided to jump off the beehive bandwagon and go to a dual spring as well. I am currently running the Patriot Extremes and have no issues period. In all fairness, I am not sure how well the beehive would work with my current cam.
FWIW, from what I have seen on this board, many of the folks who have determined that float was their problem, they were using beehives. Yes its possible that setup could be the issue, but I dont think that was the root cause in my case. Right now, my LT1 can spin to 7K RPM with no sign of float from looking at the dyno chart.
10-14-2010, 01:18 PM
#49
Try to find a Crane spring compressor. It pushes both springs down at the same time. The whole process is not hard at all. The screw type works well on single coils but is worthless on dual coils. The Tims tool also appears to be popular but I have never used it.
You just need to take your time and not rush it or you will get stressed. I can switch springs out in maybe 2.5 hours. If you have never done it, might take about 5-6 hours. Have some extra locks on hand because they like to drop into the dark abyss (AKA k-member area).
You just need to take your time and not rush it or you will get stressed. I can switch springs out in maybe 2.5 hours. If you have never done it, might take about 5-6 hours. Have some extra locks on hand because they like to drop into the dark abyss (AKA k-member area).
10-14-2010, 01:45 PM
#53
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I bought Speed's old LE cam and it abused the beehives on my LE2 heads. I contemplated switching cams but liked the low end and driveability of that cam so I installed Patriot Extremes, in the car.
I used Tim's tool for the valves springs, it worked very well for me.
Dont bother with rope or using air to hold the valve while changing the spring
I bought a valve micrometer to set the installed height at 1.800 as Llyod and I discussed
If you order the Patriots, be prepared to get the wrong valve seals for a LT1
The bigest problem I had was my back hurt like a b!tch from leaning over the cowl while doing this. If was going to do a spring swap again I would start with the back cylinders first
I used Tim's tool for the valves springs, it worked very well for me.
Dont bother with rope or using air to hold the valve while changing the spring
I bought a valve micrometer to set the installed height at 1.800 as Llyod and I discussed
If you order the Patriots, be prepared to get the wrong valve seals for a LT1
The bigest problem I had was my back hurt like a b!tch from leaning over the cowl while doing this. If was going to do a spring swap again I would start with the back cylinders first
10-14-2010, 07:49 PM
#54
I bought Speed's old LE cam and it abused the beehives on my LE2 heads. I contemplated switching cams but liked the low end and driveability of that cam so I installed Patriot Extremes, in the car.
I used Tim's tool for the valves springs, it worked very well for me.
Dont bother with rope or using air to hold the valve while changing the spring
I bought a valve micrometer to set the installed height at 1.800 as Llyod and I discussed
If you order the Patriots, be prepared to get the wrong valve seals for a LT1
The bigest problem I had was my back hurt like a b!tch from leaning over the cowl while doing this. If was going to do a spring swap again I would start with the back cylinders first
I used Tim's tool for the valves springs, it worked very well for me.
Dont bother with rope or using air to hold the valve while changing the spring
I bought a valve micrometer to set the installed height at 1.800 as Llyod and I discussed
If you order the Patriots, be prepared to get the wrong valve seals for a LT1
The bigest problem I had was my back hurt like a b!tch from leaning over the cowl while doing this. If was going to do a spring swap again I would start with the back cylinders first
i put my car up on ramps when I changed my springs....helped my back out a lot... the low profile ramps so I could still get to the back cylinders too...
12-08-2010, 09:28 PM
#55
Bringing this thread back up. Finally got done moving and life finally calmed down a bit. I pulled the wiring harness out tonight, my boss's SR 383 was having the same issue I was having and it ended up being the wire leading to the coil, so I am going to double check all my wiring. Also, took off the valve covers and am going to check spring height and readjust the rocker arms just to make sure.
I've debated taking a few springs off and getting them tested. Potentially I could be replacing the springs and perhaps get a nicer set of rocker arms. Haven't decided yet, don't really have an overflowing budget at the moment, but the car is going into hibernation for a while so I'll be saving up.
I've debated taking a few springs off and getting them tested. Potentially I could be replacing the springs and perhaps get a nicer set of rocker arms. Haven't decided yet, don't really have an overflowing budget at the moment, but the car is going into hibernation for a while so I'll be saving up.
12-09-2010, 12:50 AM
#56
Bringing this thread back up. Finally got done moving and life finally calmed down a bit. I pulled the wiring harness out tonight, my boss's SR 383 was having the same issue I was having and it ended up being the wire leading to the coil, so I am going to double check all my wiring. Also, took off the valve covers and am going to check spring height and readjust the rocker arms just to make sure.
I've debated taking a few springs off and getting them tested. Potentially I could be replacing the springs and perhaps get a nicer set of rocker arms. Haven't decided yet, don't really have an overflowing budget at the moment, but the car is going into hibernation for a while so I'll be saving up.
I've debated taking a few springs off and getting them tested. Potentially I could be replacing the springs and perhaps get a nicer set of rocker arms. Haven't decided yet, don't really have an overflowing budget at the moment, but the car is going into hibernation for a while so I'll be saving up.
I wondered what ever happened with this thread....I know what you mean about getting time to work on it though...
I seriously doubt your rockers have anything to do with it I have seen Scorpions mess up on a friends car but I have heard tons of good about them too..I actually just switched to them on my car fwiw...I still think its springs...I know I sound like a broken record but .....Patriot Extremes....
maybe Give Lloyd Elliot a call or shoot him an email with your cam specs and springs and see what he thinks...If he says Patriots too then you can order them through him he has the best price anyway!
matt
12-09-2010, 09:50 AM
#57
I'm heading out now to go work on the car a bit, valve springs etc. I might be looking into getting a set of springs just because it sounds like a good idea either way. 3 years of beating on these springs seems like they've lasted as long as they need to.
