Is it just me...
12-10-2010, 01:15 AM
#101
This thread made me laugh a cpl of times
I avoided the LT1s because of the opti and tight working spaces. I did own a GTP for 6.5 yrs and it was a great car, tranny took a ****, but other than that the engine was rock solid. Both the LT1 and the 3800 are terribly OUTDATED. that being said the 3800 has an excellent reputation, even with the japs crap nutswingers, the 3800 gets respect for its durability and longevity. I got tired of shelling out $$ for premium with the GTP and got good money for it when I sold it.
I just recently bought a 3800 '00 Camaro with 200k mi(319kms) and it still runs really well, its definately a geo metro compared to the LS, but its enough power to get around. I have absolutely NO ambition to make the car faster, its just my excuse to get an f body for winter driving(V6). If i do get bitten by the mod bug, ill sell the car and start from an LS platform. IF the GTP super could be bolted on without ANY other mods I might be for putting it on, but then i have to put prem back in it.
Before the LS series of V8s I might have seen making a 3800 quick a good idea. Why not start out with GOOD cubes and a sweet V8 rumble and a much more advanced engine, gas milage etc etc....
I avoided the LT1s because of the opti and tight working spaces. I did own a GTP for 6.5 yrs and it was a great car, tranny took a ****, but other than that the engine was rock solid. Both the LT1 and the 3800 are terribly OUTDATED. that being said the 3800 has an excellent reputation, even with the japs crap nutswingers, the 3800 gets respect for its durability and longevity. I got tired of shelling out $$ for premium with the GTP and got good money for it when I sold it.
I just recently bought a 3800 '00 Camaro with 200k mi(319kms) and it still runs really well, its definately a geo metro compared to the LS, but its enough power to get around. I have absolutely NO ambition to make the car faster, its just my excuse to get an f body for winter driving(V6). If i do get bitten by the mod bug, ill sell the car and start from an LS platform. IF the GTP super could be bolted on without ANY other mods I might be for putting it on, but then i have to put prem back in it.
Before the LS series of V8s I might have seen making a 3800 quick a good idea. Why not start out with GOOD cubes and a sweet V8 rumble and a much more advanced engine, gas milage etc etc....
12-10-2010, 11:19 AM
#102
12-10-2010, 11:24 AM
#103
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My cam only L67 makes about 10-15 more whp than my friend's cam only LT1. A turbo v6 F-body with the proper rear/trans/tires/suspension would easily run 11's without ever touching the motor itself.
I also saw someone say something about gas mileage... I average about 29mpg highway in a 319whp, 12 second boat. My friend's LT1 averages about 21mpg highway if he's extremely lucky.
I also saw someone say something about gas mileage... I average about 29mpg highway in a 319whp, 12 second boat. My friend's LT1 averages about 21mpg highway if he's extremely lucky.
12-10-2010, 11:32 AM
#104
My cam only L67 makes about 10-15 more whp than my friend's cam only LT1. A turbo v6 F-body with the proper rear/trans/tires/suspension would easily run 11's without ever touching the motor itself.
I also saw someone say something about gas mileage... I average about 29mpg highway in a 319whp, 12 second boat. My friend's LT1 averages about 21mpg highway if he's extremely lucky.
I also saw someone say something about gas mileage... I average about 29mpg highway in a 319whp, 12 second boat. My friend's LT1 averages about 21mpg highway if he's extremely lucky.
you buddy put a smaller cam then stock in the LT1 or what? your telling me the L67 can make around 350 HP N/A with no FI.............
but hey the way people rate HP and throw it out there. the new V6 Camaros and Mustangs have 300 plus and would get there asses handed to them by my ole slow bolt on LT1
12-10-2010, 11:39 AM
#105
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you buddy put a smaller cam then stock in the LT1 or what? your telling me the L67 can make around 350 HP N/A with no FI.............
but hey the way people rate HP and throw it out there. the new V6 Camaros and Mustangs have 300 plus and would get there asses handed to them by my ole slow bolt on LT1
but hey the way people rate HP and throw it out there. the new V6 Camaros and Mustangs have 300 plus and would get there asses handed to them by my ole slow bolt on LT1
I think you're confused what an L67 is... A typical cammed L67 with ported heads, an intercooler and supporting mods is making anywhere from 375-450whp on pump gas. What would a cammed LT1 with ported heads make?
Last edited by Ju1ce; 12-10-2010 at 11:44 AM.
12-10-2010, 12:13 PM
#106
It's an LT4 hot cam with 1.6 rockers and all the bolt ons. It makes right around 305-310whp.
I think you're confused what an L67 is... A typical cammed L67 with ported heads, an intercooler and supporting mods is making anywhere from 375-450whp on pump gas. What would a cammed LT1 with ported heads make?
I think you're confused what an L67 is... A typical cammed L67 with ported heads, an intercooler and supporting mods is making anywhere from 375-450whp on pump gas. What would a cammed LT1 with ported heads make?
what cam what ported heads what bottem end.
12-10-2010, 01:11 PM
#107
My L67 dyno'd 285whp with rockers, pulley, headers, tune. Not too shabby I'd say.
Throw an intercooler/smaller pulley on there and a cam and that's EASILY a basic cam-only LT1 killer.... for similar cost.
They run $ per $ why is this still being discussed.
Throw an intercooler/smaller pulley on there and a cam and that's EASILY a basic cam-only LT1 killer.... for similar cost.
They run $ per $ why is this still being discussed.
12-10-2010, 02:24 PM
#109
Breakin' it down:
THIS COMPLETELY IGNORES everything but power aspect of build.
Stock GTP: 195-200whp 14.8@92
Stock LT1: 230-260whp 13.7-14.3@95-100
GTP1 and 2 does intake, pulley, rockers = even. $300
LT1 does intake/exhaust 260-300whp $800
GTP does headers, smaller pulley = even. $650
GTP2 goes turbo = 450whp $3800
LT1 does rest of bolt ons $800ish
GTP1 does intercooler/smaller pulley = low 12s. $1200
So far:
GTP1 about $2000 low-mid 12s
LT1 about $1600 mid 12s
GTP2 about $4000 low high 10s
LT1 does cam $1000 11.999
GTP1 does cam $400 11.8
GTP2 waits
LT1 does heads $1400 11.0-11.5
GTP does heads $1300 11.0-11.5
GTP2 waits?
GTP1 - $3700 11.0
LT1 - $4000 11.0
GTP2 - $4000 10.7
I was completely honest and fair with this assessment. VERY equal vehicles when it comes to modding.
What if the LT1 goes turbo you say? Continue.
LT1 goes intercooled turbo - $8k 600-700whp
GTP1 has to demod and start over, pointless.
GTP2 does heads/cam/intercooler $3k - 600-700whp.
LT1 - $12k - 700whp
GTP1 - dropout
GTP2 - $7k
There is no comparison to a motor factory built for boost vs one built aftermarket.
This entire post can be backed up by any GTP owner you find and on any GP board as well.
I feel I was quite accurate on pricing and performance for LT1s as well, obviously if you are here and have been here I'd hope you can attest to my accuracy as far as it.
I LOVE my LT1, and I love the L67. They are both AWESOME motors. The F-body is an amazing platform, the GTP is meh, but it's motor is amazing. Putting this into a V6 firebird will continue it's ability, plus anything you need to upgrade in the V6 to run that kind of power, ALSO must be upgraded in the LT1 version. So they could be quite level playing grounds.
If in the above comparison, I were to include rearends/transmissions/all that the GTP would keep walking. Parts are simply cheaper and more common.
And before anybody starts throwing out superheros for either company, these are normal or expected results, the NORM. There will be standouts with equal mods, both good and bad, but this is GENERIC.
Last edited by LSWHO; 12-10-2010 at 02:31 PM.
12-10-2010, 02:36 PM
#111
I personally did a cam swap on my GTP for $400.
I personally did a cam swap on my LT1 for $1100.
Both using as many used parts as I could. LT1 could have been done cheaper, but I got 7/16" NSA pro mags (require plates, pushrods, studs (I got all that hardware for $350)), and a new spring kit (locks, retainers, shims, springs).
I could have done it for about $800 if I went cheap on the valvetrain parts, but then it wouldn't be up to par for the cam in most people's eyes. And actually with the cam I did, it WAS mandatory.
The L67 motor has very good hardware from the factory. There's no mandatory upgrading rockers, upgrading springs (though you should add $100 for the L67 cam swap), and parts are just cheaper in general. Using stock springs from say LS1/Lt4s or similar is much cheaper. (I got my Lt4 springs for $80 for my GTP cam swap, just never installed them) almost all aftermarket L67 parts are designed to make use of stock parts, like locks, retainers, and such. None need upgrading.
Last edited by LSWHO; 12-10-2010 at 02:41 PM.
12-10-2010, 02:48 PM
#112
Breakin' it down:
THIS COMPLETELY IGNORES everything but power aspect of build.
Stock GTP: 195-200whp 14.8@92
Stock LT1: 230-260whp 13.7-14.3@95-100
GTP1 and 2 does intake, pulley, rockers = even. $300
LT1 does intake/exhaust 260-300whp $800... it can be done for under 500
GTP does headers, smaller pulley = even. $650
GTP2 goes turbo = 450whp $3800
LT1 does rest of bolt ons $800ish... def not
GTP1 does intercooler/smaller pulley = low 12s. $1200
So far:
GTP1 about $2000 low-mid 12s
LT1 about $1600 mid 12s
GTP2 about $4000 low high 10s
LT1 does cam $1000 11.999
GTP1 does cam $400 11.8
GTP2 waits
LT1 does heads $1400 11.0-11.5.. once again offbase
GTP does heads $1300 11.0-11.5
GTP2 waits?
GTP1 - $3700 11.0
LT1 - $4000 11.0
GTP2 - $4000 10.7
I was completely honest and fair with this assessment. VERY equal vehicles when it comes to modding.
What if the LT1 goes turbo you say? Continue.
LT1 goes intercooled turbo - $8k 600-700whp...once again.. not at all..
GTP1 has to demod and start over, pointless.
GTP2 does heads/cam/intercooler $3k - 600-700whp.
LT1 - $12k - 700whp
GTP1 - dropout
GTP2 - $7k
There is no comparison to a motor factory built for boost vs one built aftermarket.
This entire post can be backed up by any GTP owner you find and on any GP board as well.
I feel I was quite accurate on pricing and performance for LT1s as well, obviously if you are here and have been here I'd hope you can attest to my accuracy as far as it.
I LOVE my LT1, and I love the L67. They are both AWESOME motors. The F-body is an amazing platform, the GTP is meh, but it's motor is amazing. Putting this into a V6 firebird will continue it's ability, plus anything you need to upgrade in the V6 to run that kind of power, ALSO must be upgraded in the LT1 version. So they could be quite level playing grounds.
If in the above comparison, I were to include rearends/transmissions/all that the GTP would keep walking. Parts are simply cheaper and more common.
And before anybody starts throwing out superheros for either company, these are normal or expected results, the NORM. There will be standouts with equal mods, both good and bad, but this is GENERIC.
THIS COMPLETELY IGNORES everything but power aspect of build.
Stock GTP: 195-200whp 14.8@92
Stock LT1: 230-260whp 13.7-14.3@95-100
GTP1 and 2 does intake, pulley, rockers = even. $300
LT1 does intake/exhaust 260-300whp $800... it can be done for under 500
GTP does headers, smaller pulley = even. $650
GTP2 goes turbo = 450whp $3800
LT1 does rest of bolt ons $800ish... def not
GTP1 does intercooler/smaller pulley = low 12s. $1200
So far:
GTP1 about $2000 low-mid 12s
LT1 about $1600 mid 12s
GTP2 about $4000 low high 10s
LT1 does cam $1000 11.999
GTP1 does cam $400 11.8
GTP2 waits
LT1 does heads $1400 11.0-11.5.. once again offbase
GTP does heads $1300 11.0-11.5
GTP2 waits?
GTP1 - $3700 11.0
LT1 - $4000 11.0
GTP2 - $4000 10.7
I was completely honest and fair with this assessment. VERY equal vehicles when it comes to modding.
What if the LT1 goes turbo you say? Continue.
LT1 goes intercooled turbo - $8k 600-700whp...once again.. not at all..
GTP1 has to demod and start over, pointless.
GTP2 does heads/cam/intercooler $3k - 600-700whp.
LT1 - $12k - 700whp
GTP1 - dropout
GTP2 - $7k
There is no comparison to a motor factory built for boost vs one built aftermarket.
This entire post can be backed up by any GTP owner you find and on any GP board as well.
I feel I was quite accurate on pricing and performance for LT1s as well, obviously if you are here and have been here I'd hope you can attest to my accuracy as far as it.
I LOVE my LT1, and I love the L67. They are both AWESOME motors. The F-body is an amazing platform, the GTP is meh, but it's motor is amazing. Putting this into a V6 firebird will continue it's ability, plus anything you need to upgrade in the V6 to run that kind of power, ALSO must be upgraded in the LT1 version. So they could be quite level playing grounds.
If in the above comparison, I were to include rearends/transmissions/all that the GTP would keep walking. Parts are simply cheaper and more common.
And before anybody starts throwing out superheros for either company, these are normal or expected results, the NORM. There will be standouts with equal mods, both good and bad, but this is GENERIC.
12-10-2010, 02:50 PM
#113
12-10-2010, 03:28 PM
#115
Also, intake/exhaust for under $500 is for what? a cheaply made home depot intake and used painted headers? that's trash not worth installing. I tried to keep all the numbers on the used side or partially to it.
And what are you saying for the turbo lt1 part? $3k for a built bottom end and $4k for kit, then parts necessary for install. seems pretty reasonable to me. Sure you can do it cheaper, but I went with new on the turbo kit stuff to keep that equal. DO NOT go into a used part or junkyard build war. It won't be pretty.
And who's doing heads on a LT1 worth a damn for much cheaper than $1400? I was shooting for the minimum quality on heads to get close to the 400whp mark. I was trying to be fair in all respects. Feel I did quite well.
If I went high end on one, I did so with the other platform. cheap - cheap and so on.
12-10-2010, 03:39 PM
#117
Yes and the average person can get them at this price? No. Is that a normal price? No.
I'm trying to be fair, what can't you understand about that?
I got an OEM Ram Air hood and OEM air box for $350 in perfect condition. Does that mean the average person will find this deal? Hell no.
12-10-2010, 04:01 PM
#118
well just to show you.. i bought brand new painted headers from a sponser for 259.. ypipe for 80.. bullet muffler for 32.. there is my full exhaust.. intake i made with a modified pepboys intake just using the piping and then a k&n cone filter and that was about 70.. that comes out to 441.. so yes this price is available to every consumer.. On the suspension.. tq arm 175.. lca 100 thats all thats needed.. so 275 there.. ewp can be had used for 150ish all day long so all the "bolt ons" or your boltons.. that comes out to 425.. so we are at 866 so far.. now lets move onto the turbo kit.. turbo 800.. piping could be done for about 1500 on hte expensive side.. you could pick up a good used shortblock for about 1800 to 2500.. you can get the heads used.. you dont need em new.. call that about 800... My grand total cam out to 5966.. far less than your 12k..
12-10-2010, 04:18 PM
#119
well just to show you.. i bought brand new painted headers from a sponser for 259.. ypipe for 80.. bullet muffler for 32.. there is my full exhaust.. intake i made with a modified pepboys intake just using the piping and then a k&n cone filter and that was about 70.. that comes out to 441.. so yes this price is available to every consumer.. On the suspension.. tq arm 175.. lca 100 thats all thats needed.. so 275 there.. ewp can be had used for 150ish all day long so all the "bolt ons" or your boltons.. that comes out to 425.. so we are at 866 so far.. now lets move onto the turbo kit.. turbo 800.. piping could be done for about 1500 on hte expensive side.. you could pick up a good used shortblock for about 1800 to 2500.. you can get the heads used.. you dont need em new.. call that about 800... My grand total cam out to 5966.. far less than your 12k..
Ok here we go.
Used diesel turbo $300
DIY crossover pipe (hot parts) $30
cold parts can be home depot'd just like yours for under $20
used stock various turbo accessories $600
tune $free from your local club
Used injectors $50
There's mine
Looks like I won with $1000
But oh wait you left out a ton of things in yours (like gaskets/fluids and all things necessary for a bottom end swap and for your freaking topend you ignored)... and it's not going to produce like you said or last long. the build you just did will be lucky to be done even close to within $2k of what you said and even then it'll probably blow up shortly after due to lacking proper fueling and all sorts of other things you need to upgrade to run such a set up.
Mine would last though. I told you don't get into a junkyard build war.
Last edited by LSWHO; 12-10-2010 at 04:26 PM.
12-10-2010, 04:40 PM
#120
[QUOTE=LSWHO;14221375]Yes and the average person can get them at this price? No. Is that a normal price? No.
I'm trying to be fair, what can't you understand about that?
I got an OEM Ram Air hood and OEM air box for $350 in perfect condition. Does that mean the average person will find this deal? Hell no.[/QU
I work part time job and just graduated High school. what kind of deal did i get? you look for used stuff that doesn't require it to be brand new just to say I have the BRAND new stuff. Just look around for things and could do the same for with the GTP. again...........WHY IS THIS EVEN IN THIS FORUM?!?! LT1 not M90 not GTP its an LT1 section
I'm trying to be fair, what can't you understand about that?
I got an OEM Ram Air hood and OEM air box for $350 in perfect condition. Does that mean the average person will find this deal? Hell no.[/QU
I work part time job and just graduated High school. what kind of deal did i get? you look for used stuff that doesn't require it to be brand new just to say I have the BRAND new stuff. Just look around for things and could do the same for with the GTP. again...........WHY IS THIS EVEN IN THIS FORUM?!?! LT1 not M90 not GTP its an LT1 section