New Member, Old Car, Lots of Problems
06-10-2014, 04:13 PM
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New Member, Old Car, Lots of Problems Ok so, my father and I were on our way to NY when he started telling me a story of his his friend in high school bought a nice Thunderbird off an old lady who had it squared away in her barn for a few years...
Needless to say I started perusing the local craigslist, and by the time we had reached our destination in NY, we had settled on buying a 1988 Firebird formula... particularly the one shown below!
PO gave us some newish kinda tired which he took off and put on with the help of his big truck and a tire iron. That was interesting.
He also noted that this was not the original engine, but an LT1 from a '92 Camaro. Small block 350. Neat.
Now apparently the PO was trying to pull a fast one one me... and topped it up with oil and charged the battery, becuase I was able to drive it home, but by the time I had gotten back (about an hour) you could see exactly where I had been by following the oil smoke cloud. Dipstick as well showed I was kinda low on the slippery stuff. Stop by walmart, buy more and more oil (and more oil) and provisions to change the oil at our house.
That oil filter is a PITA to get off. (According to my father
) but we were able to change the oil and add some stop-smoke to it.
Total work done:
Oil/filter change
Breather filter change (was dirty)
Vaccummed
Fluid top off
After all this was done we decidied to take the T tops off and go for a cruise. Stopping here and there at the small town's general store, generally showing off.
The engine feels like it has an anchor tied to it. I drive a S/C 4cyl Cobalt, so I was kind of expecting... more... from a V8.
Stop at the dollar general in town to get some food, get back in the car to start it up, and it starts... then dies. Starts.... then dies. Battery is exteremely low. Keep in mind we were starting and stopping it all day, as well as playing with the lights (driver side light motor gone dead) but we were able to get a jump.
As soon as we took the donor battery off the engine started to have trouble... then died. We called our lovely neighbor who dropped a fresh battery off for us to use to power the car back to the house.
Alternator is deadsies.
All in all, for 800$ I was glad it rolled. Everything else should be fixable.
Notable problems I have noticed now, engine related:
Smoke from tailpipe under load. Light smoke when idle, but give it some gas for the Jamed Bond effect
Smoke coming from breather
PCV was dirty/oily and replaced, along with breather filter
Dead alternator
When adding oil to the car doing the oil change, I noted that under the valve cover was an awful sludgy mess. We ran some motor-medic de-sludger when we changed the oil, but it seemed to persist post-change.
In doing some research, this may be what is causing my smoke problem, clogged oil drain ports. But I wondered, if the port is clogged... and that is where I added the oil... how is the oil getting to the rest of the engine? I sure didnt have 6qt of oil sitting in the driver valve cover... it was going somewhere?
With regards to the power, I'm thinking that some cyl's arent firing right. Maybe the timing is off or it ate enough oil to prevent the plug from sparking...
Sorry for the long post. I'm 23 and just got a Firebird. Who wouldn't be excited?
Needless to say I started perusing the local craigslist, and by the time we had reached our destination in NY, we had settled on buying a 1988 Firebird formula... particularly the one shown below!
PO gave us some newish kinda tired which he took off and put on with the help of his big truck and a tire iron. That was interesting.
He also noted that this was not the original engine, but an LT1 from a '92 Camaro. Small block 350. Neat.
Now apparently the PO was trying to pull a fast one one me... and topped it up with oil and charged the battery, becuase I was able to drive it home, but by the time I had gotten back (about an hour) you could see exactly where I had been by following the oil smoke cloud. Dipstick as well showed I was kinda low on the slippery stuff. Stop by walmart, buy more and more oil (and more oil) and provisions to change the oil at our house.
That oil filter is a PITA to get off. (According to my father
) but we were able to change the oil and add some stop-smoke to it. Total work done:
Oil/filter change
Breather filter change (was dirty)
Vaccummed
Fluid top off
After all this was done we decidied to take the T tops off and go for a cruise. Stopping here and there at the small town's general store, generally showing off.
The engine feels like it has an anchor tied to it. I drive a S/C 4cyl Cobalt, so I was kind of expecting... more... from a V8.
Stop at the dollar general in town to get some food, get back in the car to start it up, and it starts... then dies. Starts.... then dies. Battery is exteremely low. Keep in mind we were starting and stopping it all day, as well as playing with the lights (driver side light motor gone dead) but we were able to get a jump.
As soon as we took the donor battery off the engine started to have trouble... then died. We called our lovely neighbor who dropped a fresh battery off for us to use to power the car back to the house.
Alternator is deadsies.
All in all, for 800$ I was glad it rolled. Everything else should be fixable.
Notable problems I have noticed now, engine related:
Smoke from tailpipe under load. Light smoke when idle, but give it some gas for the Jamed Bond effect
Smoke coming from breather
PCV was dirty/oily and replaced, along with breather filter
Dead alternator
When adding oil to the car doing the oil change, I noted that under the valve cover was an awful sludgy mess. We ran some motor-medic de-sludger when we changed the oil, but it seemed to persist post-change.
In doing some research, this may be what is causing my smoke problem, clogged oil drain ports. But I wondered, if the port is clogged... and that is where I added the oil... how is the oil getting to the rest of the engine? I sure didnt have 6qt of oil sitting in the driver valve cover... it was going somewhere?
With regards to the power, I'm thinking that some cyl's arent firing right. Maybe the timing is off or it ate enough oil to prevent the plug from sparking...
Sorry for the long post. I'm 23 and just got a Firebird. Who wouldn't be excited?
06-10-2014, 05:14 PM
#2
TECH Addict
First things first, compression check it. Then leak down. Verify spark and fuel to all cylinders. I'm leaning towards blown valve seals and bad rings.
Got any pics of the engine? Did you verify it was an LT1? What kind of trans is in it? LT1 swaps to the Gen 3 is very wiring intrusive.
Most likely need an engine rebuild. I wouldn't keep driving it like that. Yank that sucker out and rebuild it.
Got any pics of the engine? Did you verify it was an LT1? What kind of trans is in it? LT1 swaps to the Gen 3 is very wiring intrusive.
Most likely need an engine rebuild. I wouldn't keep driving it like that. Yank that sucker out and rebuild it.
06-10-2014, 05:25 PM
#3
"He also noted that this was not the original engine, but an LT1 from a '92 Camaro. Small block 350. Neat".
1992 Camaros did NOT come with LT1 engines, at least not the "second generation" LT1s that the 4th gen Camaro/Firebirds had in 1993-1997. Where is the distributor located on the engine, on top at the rear, or in front under the water pump?
As "hrcslam" already stated, a 4th gen LT1 swap into a 3rd gen car, could entail a TON of wiring. If this indeed a 4th gen engine, you might want to start by contacting someone who is an electrical expert, to insure the wiring portion was done right, before you start chasing shadows, trying to get it to run right.
1992 Camaros did NOT come with LT1 engines, at least not the "second generation" LT1s that the 4th gen Camaro/Firebirds had in 1993-1997. Where is the distributor located on the engine, on top at the rear, or in front under the water pump?
As "hrcslam" already stated, a 4th gen LT1 swap into a 3rd gen car, could entail a TON of wiring. If this indeed a 4th gen engine, you might want to start by contacting someone who is an electrical expert, to insure the wiring portion was done right, before you start chasing shadows, trying to get it to run right.
06-10-2014, 06:55 PM
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PO gave me a sob story how his father had used the car a lot, then the original motor went bad, and he rebuilt it. Took it for a 5 mile drive then went blind in 1 eye, couldnt drive it anymore, got depressed and wanted to sell it.
So supposedly it was recently rebuilt... I'm guessing not very well. Its been sitting for a while though.
Heres a video of the engine running while we were troubleshooting, the air filter was removed.
Please ignore my ramblings...
So supposedly it was recently rebuilt... I'm guessing not very well. Its been sitting for a while though.
Heres a video of the engine running while we were troubleshooting, the air filter was removed.
Please ignore my ramblings...
06-10-2014, 07:29 PM
#5
That's a Gen 1 SBC, LT1s have a dry intake, they don't have the T-stat on the intake manifold like yours does. On an LT1 the Thermostat housing is located on the water pump. I see it has a TBI unit, so it was likely an LO3 305 TBI car originally. Those motors only had a rated 170HP. Being a 1988 would make sense, since that was the first year of the 305 TBI as the base engine in the Formulas. It replaced the LG4 305 which had a carburetor and was offered for the 1987 model year as the base engine. It could be a 350 from a 92 Camaro which would mean it came from a Tuned Port car and they kept the TBI unit since they didn't get the Tuned Port Intake manifold and harness.
Last edited by BizZzatch350; 06-10-2014 at 07:38 PM.
06-10-2014, 07:42 PM
#6
TECH Addict
Yup, not an LT1. Compression check and a leak down are in order.
This is an LT1. Notice the thermostat is on the water pump, the distributor is under the water pump (the dreaded optispark), and the throttle body is at the front of the intake. Because of the changes in head design and the angle of the valves, mounting a Gen I SBC head to an LT1 block is very difficult. Adding a Tiny TBI to an LT1 wouldn't even be considered with the efforts it would take to use an LT1 with Gen I SBC stuff. Not saying it hasn't been done, but certainly not worth the effort.
This is an LT1. Notice the thermostat is on the water pump, the distributor is under the water pump (the dreaded optispark), and the throttle body is at the front of the intake. Because of the changes in head design and the angle of the valves, mounting a Gen I SBC head to an LT1 block is very difficult. Adding a Tiny TBI to an LT1 wouldn't even be considered with the efforts it would take to use an LT1 with Gen I SBC stuff. Not saying it hasn't been done, but certainly not worth the effort.
Last edited by hrcslam; 06-10-2014 at 07:52 PM.
06-10-2014, 07:44 PM
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So... its a car engine.
I got that much. Lol. Lots to learn.
I'm just going off what PO told me, I have the call recording when they said it was a recent rebuild and I expertly recall the ad saying it was a 91 LT1 but the lady wrote the ad and her husband corrected her and said it wad a 92....
I got that much. Lol. Lots to learn.
I'm just going off what PO told me, I have the call recording when they said it was a recent rebuild and I expertly recall the ad saying it was a 91 LT1 but the lady wrote the ad and her husband corrected her and said it wad a 92....
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06-10-2014, 07:46 PM
#8
So... its a car engine.
I got that much. Lol. Lots to learn.
I'm just going off what PO told me, I have the call recording when they said it was a recent rebuild and I expertly recall the ad saying it was a 91 LT1 but the lady wrote the ad and her husband corrected her and said it wad a 92....
I got that much. Lol. Lots to learn.
I'm just going off what PO told me, I have the call recording when they said it was a recent rebuild and I expertly recall the ad saying it was a 91 LT1 but the lady wrote the ad and her husband corrected her and said it wad a 92....
06-10-2014, 07:55 PM
#9
TECH Addict
So... its a car engine.
I got that much. Lol. Lots to learn.
I'm just going off what PO told me, I have the call recording when they said it was a recent rebuild and I expertly recall the ad saying it was a 91 LT1 but the lady wrote the ad and her husband corrected her and said it wad a 92....
I got that much. Lol. Lots to learn.
I'm just going off what PO told me, I have the call recording when they said it was a recent rebuild and I expertly recall the ad saying it was a 91 LT1 but the lady wrote the ad and her husband corrected her and said it wad a 92....
I'd start with a compression check and leak down. Finding that oil leak is step one. It's idling smooth and sounds like all cylinders are firing. So next step is to stop the leak.
Recent rebuild not broken in correctly to seat the rings will burn oil, but not at that rate. They could've left the heads untouched for the rebuild though and that would give you a good possibility of leaking valve seals.
06-10-2014, 09:30 PM
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Ill be ordering the compression testing gear off amazon. Probably going with the "value" gauge.
What about timing adjustment? Does it sound like it needs it?
Unfortunately the car had to be left in NY as I was fairly certain it would not make the drive to Virginia so ill have to wait to do any testing...
What about timing adjustment? Does it sound like it needs it?
Unfortunately the car had to be left in NY as I was fairly certain it would not make the drive to Virginia
so ill have to wait to do any testing...
06-10-2014, 10:23 PM
#11
TECH Addict
Ill be ordering the compression testing gear off amazon. Probably going with the "value" gauge.
What about timing adjustment? Does it sound like it needs it?
Unfortunately the car had to be left in NY as I was fairly certain it would not make the drive to Virginia so ill have to wait to do any testing...
What about timing adjustment? Does it sound like it needs it?
Unfortunately the car had to be left in NY as I was fairly certain it would not make the drive to Virginia
so ill have to wait to do any testing...
06-10-2014, 10:48 PM
#13
tyeo098, welcome to LS1tech!
Come on over to the Firebird section. As you can see, this section is the place for LT1 engined cars.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/pontiac-f...-1967-2002-73/
Come on over to the Firebird section. As you can see, this section is the place for LT1 engined cars.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/pontiac-f...-1967-2002-73/
06-11-2014, 12:33 AM
#16
TECH Addict
06-11-2014, 06:41 AM
#17
OK folks, thanks for the responses, the OP has re-posted this in the Firebird section, take it over there, leave this section to LT1 discussions.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/pontiac-f...-problems.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/pontiac-f...-problems.html
06-11-2014, 06:44 AM
#18
Correct, your model year car would have had 3 engine choices which would remain through the 1992 model year. LO3 which is the base engine was a 305 TBI, the next was the LB9 Tuned Port, this was still a 305 but with Tuned Port Injection and lastly the L98, the L98 was a 350 Tuned Port Injected motor. The way to tell an L98 car is the 8th Digit of the Vin is an 8 and the car has the RPO code B2L.