View Poll Results: Which Lunati Cam For Bolt On Car?
60121
5
55.56%
60122
4
44.44%
Voters: 9. You may not vote on this poll
Cam Opinions?
12-17-2014, 09:00 PM
#1
Launching!
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Cam Opinions? I know its been beaten to death but I've got to ask anyway. What do you guys think?
I'm really looking into these to cams.
Car is a 96 Trans Am, Street driven. It has; Ram Air, Pacesetter long tubes, ORY, Magnaflow catback, 3200? Stall, Shift kit, Stock heads, Stock bottom end, I believe the gears are stock 107xxx miles.
Lunati 60121
http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=2011&gid=289
Lunati 60122
http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=2012
Lunati Spring Kit
http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=8668
I'm really looking into these to cams.
Car is a 96 Trans Am, Street driven. It has; Ram Air, Pacesetter long tubes, ORY, Magnaflow catback, 3200? Stall, Shift kit, Stock heads, Stock bottom end, I believe the gears are stock 107xxx miles.
Lunati 60121
http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=2011&gid=289
Lunati 60122
http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=2012
Lunati Spring Kit
http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=8668
12-18-2014, 05:16 AM
#3
The fact that it says the words "9.5:1 compression", "carb" and "marine engines" for an LT1 cam shows how little big companies invested in the LT1. The rpm ranges are way off, the first cam would be fine with the second cams lift. The second cam is too big for a stock headed 350, and would peak way higher than your stock rod bolts would allow. Out if the 2, I'd go with option 1, option 2 is out of the question, but there are better options.
12-18-2014, 09:03 AM
#5
TECH Regular
Neither of those cams are ideal for a stock headed 350 LT1.
If you want a good shelf cam to stick in a stock long block, just look at the Comp Cams XE line. There are several grinds there for the LT1 that have worked very well for many years. No need to re-invent the wheel.
As always with stock long blocks with stock compression, look for intake duration @.050 in the 225 range and somewhere around .550 lift on both sides, and a 111-112 lsa. Though it's often done, I'm not a fan of running 230+ duration cams in stock LT1s, both driveability and the area under the curve often suffer and very little is gained up top.
If you want a good shelf cam to stick in a stock long block, just look at the Comp Cams XE line. There are several grinds there for the LT1 that have worked very well for many years. No need to re-invent the wheel.
As always with stock long blocks with stock compression, look for intake duration @.050 in the 225 range and somewhere around .550 lift on both sides, and a 111-112 lsa. Though it's often done, I'm not a fan of running 230+ duration cams in stock LT1s, both driveability and the area under the curve often suffer and very little is gained up top.
12-18-2014, 11:28 PM
#6
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Two of the top two custom LT1 cam people everyone on here talks about speced a cam very similar to the second one you have listed for my cam only set-up.
Granted the intended use was different and I would imagine a lighter car. My car also had a better gear and stall for the larger cam.
Granted the intended use was different and I would imagine a lighter car. My car also had a better gear and stall for the larger cam.
12-21-2014, 10:50 PM
#7
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The fact that it says the words "9.5:1 compression", "carb" and "marine engines" for an LT1 cam shows how little big companies invested in the LT1. The rpm ranges are way off, the first cam would be fine with the second cams lift. The second cam is too big for a stock headed 350, and would peak way higher than your stock rod bolts would allow. Out if the 2, I'd go with option 1, option 2 is out of the question, but there are better options.
The first cams lift is too low? What if I used 1.6rr? Or is the advertised lift with 1.6rrs?
Neither of those cams are ideal for a stock headed 350 LT1.
If you want a good shelf cam to stick in a stock long block, just look at the Comp Cams XE line. There are several grinds there for the LT1 that have worked very well for many years. No need to re-invent the wheel.
As always with stock long blocks with stock compression, look for intake duration @.050 in the 225 range and somewhere around .550 lift on both sides, and a 111-112 lsa. Though it's often done, I'm not a fan of running 230+ duration cams in stock LT1s, both driveability and the area under the curve often suffer and very little is gained up top.
If you want a good shelf cam to stick in a stock long block, just look at the Comp Cams XE line. There are several grinds there for the LT1 that have worked very well for many years. No need to re-invent the wheel.
As always with stock long blocks with stock compression, look for intake duration @.050 in the 225 range and somewhere around .550 lift on both sides, and a 111-112 lsa. Though it's often done, I'm not a fan of running 230+ duration cams in stock LT1s, both driveability and the area under the curve often suffer and very little is gained up top.
Two of the top two custom LT1 cam people everyone on here talks about speced a cam very similar to the second one you have listed for my cam only set-up.
Granted the intended use was different and I would imagine a lighter car. My car also had a better gear and stall for the larger cam.
Granted the intended use was different and I would imagine a lighter car. My car also had a better gear and stall for the larger cam.
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12-22-2014, 02:15 AM
#8
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Street driven is the word I'm latching on to. It all depends on how much you can deal with a big cam's bad manners. I daily drove a CC306 car for 4 years. 1 as cam only, 3 with LE2 heads on it.
I've motor didn't want to operate under 1800 rpm. It surge to get up there. Then it crawled along up to 2500 rpm, finally got moving around 3000. It had a 3200 stall torque converter and 3,73's.
I delt with it fine, but I enjoyed having be this snarling beast of a car. My new daily driver is getting tiny cams put in it, in a build that's empasising area under the curve.
It's your money, so get whatever cam. You want. Get the smaller cam if you want it to operate close to stock.
I've motor didn't want to operate under 1800 rpm. It surge to get up there. Then it crawled along up to 2500 rpm, finally got moving around 3000. It had a 3200 stall torque converter and 3,73's.
I delt with it fine, but I enjoyed having be this snarling beast of a car. My new daily driver is getting tiny cams put in it, in a build that's empasising area under the curve.
It's your money, so get whatever cam. You want. Get the smaller cam if you want it to operate close to stock.
12-22-2014, 06:38 AM
#9
If you're not out to set records (and you won't be with stock gearing and 3200 stall 
), I see nothing wrong with that smaller Lunati cam. I wouldn't go any bigger with a stock bottom.
Run 1.6 rockers and you'll have plenty of lift for the stock heads.
), I see nothing wrong with that smaller Lunati cam. I wouldn't go any bigger with a stock bottom.Run 1.6 rockers and you'll have plenty of lift for the stock heads.
12-22-2014, 09:49 AM
#10
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The Lunati 60121 seems very close in specs to the LT4 Hotcam except for more lift.
I wonder if the Lunati 60121 would out perform the LT4 Hotcam ? The LT4 hotcam is roughly 100 bucks less brand new than the Lunati.
LT4 hotcam is a proven performer. Have not seen alot of info on the Lunati 60121.
I wonder if the Lunati 60121 would out perform the LT4 Hotcam ? The LT4 hotcam is roughly 100 bucks less brand new than the Lunati.
LT4 hotcam is a proven performer. Have not seen alot of info on the Lunati 60121.
12-22-2014, 01:31 PM
#11
TECH Regular
OP: what are your goals as far as power and torque? Looks like your shortblock is stock, do you want to keep the revs below a certain point?
Just about any of the cams mentioned in this thread will put a properly tuned and good running M6 car in the 315-335whp range. It's generally accepted that the most powerful 'cam-only' LT1 f-bodies are in the 350-365 range through a T56 and stock rear. Several cams have been used to achieve this. The bigger ones will generally require more rpm and sacrifice more manners and power under the curve.
The popular 503 is generally viewed as a good choice because it makes a nice usable torque curve, peaks early enough in the rev range not to overly stress stock rod bolts, and still makes good top end power.
The CC306 and XE233/239, for example, are much bigger cams. You can run these in a stock engine and they will typically peak 10 to 20 numbers over a smaller 503 or the like. However, they will want several hundred more rpm (6500+), the area under the curve will typically be softer and the driveability will not be as good.
Cams like the 224/230 or 224/236 typically enjoy a similar 10-20 advantage over things like the CC305 or GM hotcam.
The two Lunati grinds you posted will probably do fine. The smaller one will probably run about like a GM hotcam, the bigger one might make slightly more power but it has more intake duration than I like for something to be used with stock heads and stock SCR.
For a point of reference, I'm running 11+ SCR and ported heads, and still don't run a 230+ duration cam.
There's no real free lunch when it comes to cams. Just do some research, pick one that has been shown to provide the results you're looking for, and go with it.
Just about any of the cams mentioned in this thread will put a properly tuned and good running M6 car in the 315-335whp range. It's generally accepted that the most powerful 'cam-only' LT1 f-bodies are in the 350-365 range through a T56 and stock rear. Several cams have been used to achieve this. The bigger ones will generally require more rpm and sacrifice more manners and power under the curve.
The popular 503 is generally viewed as a good choice because it makes a nice usable torque curve, peaks early enough in the rev range not to overly stress stock rod bolts, and still makes good top end power.
The CC306 and XE233/239, for example, are much bigger cams. You can run these in a stock engine and they will typically peak 10 to 20 numbers over a smaller 503 or the like. However, they will want several hundred more rpm (6500+), the area under the curve will typically be softer and the driveability will not be as good.
Cams like the 224/230 or 224/236 typically enjoy a similar 10-20 advantage over things like the CC305 or GM hotcam.
The two Lunati grinds you posted will probably do fine. The smaller one will probably run about like a GM hotcam, the bigger one might make slightly more power but it has more intake duration than I like for something to be used with stock heads and stock SCR.
For a point of reference, I'm running 11+ SCR and ported heads, and still don't run a 230+ duration cam.
There's no real free lunch when it comes to cams. Just do some research, pick one that has been shown to provide the results you're looking for, and go with it.
12-24-2014, 09:50 PM
#12
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Street driven is the word I'm latching on to. It all depends on how much you can deal with a big cam's bad manners. I daily drove a CC306 car for 4 years. 1 as cam only, 3 with LE2 heads on it.
I've motor didn't want to operate under 1800 rpm. It surge to get up there. Then it crawled along up to 2500 rpm, finally got moving around 3000. It had a 3200 stall torque converter and 3,73's.
I delt with it fine, but I enjoyed having be this snarling beast of a car. My new daily driver is getting tiny cams put in it, in a build that's empasising area under the curve.
It's your money, so get whatever cam. You want. Get the smaller cam if you want it to operate close to stock.
I've motor didn't want to operate under 1800 rpm. It surge to get up there. Then it crawled along up to 2500 rpm, finally got moving around 3000. It had a 3200 stall torque converter and 3,73's.
I delt with it fine, but I enjoyed having be this snarling beast of a car. My new daily driver is getting tiny cams put in it, in a build that's empasising area under the curve.
It's your money, so get whatever cam. You want. Get the smaller cam if you want it to operate close to stock.
The Lunati 60121 seems very close in specs to the LT4 Hotcam except for more lift.
I wonder if the Lunati 60121 would out perform the LT4 Hotcam ? The LT4 hotcam is roughly 100 bucks less brand new than the Lunati.
LT4 hotcam is a proven performer. Have not seen alot of info on the Lunati 60121.
I wonder if the Lunati 60121 would out perform the LT4 Hotcam ? The LT4 hotcam is roughly 100 bucks less brand new than the Lunati.
LT4 hotcam is a proven performer. Have not seen alot of info on the Lunati 60121.
OP: what are your goals as far as power and torque? Looks like your shortblock is stock, do you want to keep the revs below a certain point?
Just about any of the cams mentioned in this thread will put a properly tuned and good running M6 car in the 315-335whp range. It's generally accepted that the most powerful 'cam-only' LT1 f-bodies are in the 350-365 range through a T56 and stock rear. Several cams have been used to achieve this. The bigger ones will generally require more rpm and sacrifice more manners and power under the curve.
The popular 503 is generally viewed as a good choice because it makes a nice usable torque curve, peaks early enough in the rev range not to overly stress stock rod bolts, and still makes good top end power.
The CC306 and XE233/239, for example, are much bigger cams. You can run these in a stock engine and they will typically peak 10 to 20 numbers over a smaller 503 or the like. However, they will want several hundred more rpm (6500+), the area under the curve will typically be softer and the driveability will not be as good.
Cams like the 224/230 or 224/236 typically enjoy a similar 10-20 advantage over things like the CC305 or GM hotcam.
The two Lunati grinds you posted will probably do fine. The smaller one will probably run about like a GM hotcam, the bigger one might make slightly more power but it has more intake duration than I like for something to be used with stock heads and stock SCR.
For a point of reference, I'm running 11+ SCR and ported heads, and still don't run a 230+ duration cam.
There's no real free lunch when it comes to cams. Just do some research, pick one that has been shown to provide the results you're looking for, and go with it.
Just about any of the cams mentioned in this thread will put a properly tuned and good running M6 car in the 315-335whp range. It's generally accepted that the most powerful 'cam-only' LT1 f-bodies are in the 350-365 range through a T56 and stock rear. Several cams have been used to achieve this. The bigger ones will generally require more rpm and sacrifice more manners and power under the curve.
The popular 503 is generally viewed as a good choice because it makes a nice usable torque curve, peaks early enough in the rev range not to overly stress stock rod bolts, and still makes good top end power.
The CC306 and XE233/239, for example, are much bigger cams. You can run these in a stock engine and they will typically peak 10 to 20 numbers over a smaller 503 or the like. However, they will want several hundred more rpm (6500+), the area under the curve will typically be softer and the driveability will not be as good.
Cams like the 224/230 or 224/236 typically enjoy a similar 10-20 advantage over things like the CC305 or GM hotcam.
The two Lunati grinds you posted will probably do fine. The smaller one will probably run about like a GM hotcam, the bigger one might make slightly more power but it has more intake duration than I like for something to be used with stock heads and stock SCR.
For a point of reference, I'm running 11+ SCR and ported heads, and still don't run a 230+ duration cam.
There's no real free lunch when it comes to cams. Just do some research, pick one that has been shown to provide the results you're looking for, and go with it.
Honestly I'd like to be around 500-600 RWHP when all is said and done. I know I won't get there with stock internals, I'm not stupid. But I'd like to be close to 350 HP at the crank with a cam and 1.6 RR, counting the bolt ons. Not sure how realistic that is. I would be closer to 400 with ported heads. Which I may do around tax time. I won't be able to do LE2 for awhile though. I was thinking of taking them to a local race shop though. But I haven't called them yet. I'm gonna wait on buying parts until tax time, but I'd like to have a solid direction to go.
While I drive the car mainly on the street, its not my daily driver.
12-27-2014, 12:40 PM
#13
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Honestly I'd like to be around 500-600 RWHP when all is said and done. I know I won't get there with stock internals, I'm not stupid. But I'd like to be close to 350 HP at the crank with a cam and 1.6 RR, counting the bolt ons. Not sure how realistic that is. I would be closer to 400 with ported heads. Which I may do around tax time. I won't be able to do LE2 for awhile though. I was thinking of taking them to a local race shop though. But I haven't called them yet. I'm gonna wait on buying parts until tax time, but I'd like to have a solid direction to go.
While I drive the car mainly on the street, its not my daily driver.
While I drive the car mainly on the street, its not my daily driver.
400 crank horsepower can easily be made with bolt-ons and a good cam in the stock engine; plenty of cammed stock motors have exceeded 350 rwhp, which is just over 400 crank. A good cam, bolt-ons and a good set of ported factory heads can put a LT1 very close to 500 crank horsepower, which is low 400s rwhp.
12-27-2014, 07:04 PM
#14
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I had my lock up table for my torque converter dialed in to avoid those situations. IIRC, I had the converter lock up at 37mph in 3rd, which was around 1800 rpm. Then I had it hold gear up until 53mph, which was 2600 rpm. At 53mph, it'd shift into 4th and stay locked up at 1800rpm in 4th. Before that it would unlock between the two shifts. Just a little side story of life with a big-ish cam.
For example: There was a guy in our car club that ran a gen1 SBC, iirc it was a 358, worked over AFR 227's, solid roller on methanol. He spun it around 8800 rpm and ran bottom 10's all motor.
IMO, get a cam that'll work well with a boosted combo. Then get a supercharger or turbo. Run it on low boost until the bottom end blows up, then build the motor for it. Since you've got a second car for a DD, it won't matter if your fbody goes down for the count for a bit.
Or save up some cash and go right for the forced induction. Then when the motor lets go, you can really dial in the right combo when you build the motor.
12-28-2014, 04:29 PM
#15
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If your looking at squeezing as much power out of the stock lt1 as possible then go for the bigger cam, I have a very similar grind that Lloyd Elliot spec'd for my stock headed 355 with stock rods and crank. I am bumping the compression with a thinner gasket and milled heads per Lloyd's recommendation.
If you want a simple cam swap then do the smaller cam and enjoy it, this one will probably be the best on the street and overall drive the best.
If you want a simple cam swap then do the smaller cam and enjoy it, this one will probably be the best on the street and overall drive the best.
12-29-2014, 08:48 AM
#16
TECH Fanatic
The general concept I notice is,... the bigger the cam the higher you have to rev to make peak power. And the low rpm power usually loses power or becomes almost unusable for regular daily driving. If your doing this to a stock heads and block motor, it would seem useless to go for that second cam. RPM range for good to peak power on that would probably be higher than you could safely run over and over assuming you'll be trying to wind that sucker out and use the power. Peak power probably wont be attainable with stock heads and bottom end with the 2nd.
Oh well.. Then again, I'm looking at this from the angle that I prefer reliable power in a safe to use rpm range for the internals vs. Go as big as possible and let scream until whenever it breaks (today? Tomorrow? In a week?).
Oh well.. Then again, I'm looking at this from the angle that I prefer reliable power in a safe to use rpm range for the internals vs. Go as big as possible and let scream until whenever it breaks (today? Tomorrow? In a week?).
12-29-2014, 05:16 PM
#17
Something in the middle. While there is a lot more to it then numbers @ .050, usually 22x/23x is the sweet spot for stock cube cars.
FWIW if/when I ever finish my motor(on the back burner, haven't touched it in at least a year) it will be someone north of 500rwhp through a stalled auto, and for an idea of what it takes I will have close to $20k in the motor alone - and that is getting some parts used for good deals. Will need an 8k rpm stroker with very good heads and a solid roller cam and valvetrain that won't be very street friendly...not that you'd want to run it on the street much with the big stall and aggressive gearing.
Much better deal to just buy a proven combo like the 450+rwhp 10 second NA LT1 for under $10k on here. You couldn't build just the motor for that much, and its a fully done car with proven record and good parts.
FWIW if/when I ever finish my motor(on the back burner, haven't touched it in at least a year) it will be someone north of 500rwhp through a stalled auto, and for an idea of what it takes I will have close to $20k in the motor alone - and that is getting some parts used for good deals. Will need an 8k rpm stroker with very good heads and a solid roller cam and valvetrain that won't be very street friendly...not that you'd want to run it on the street much with the big stall and aggressive gearing.
Much better deal to just buy a proven combo like the 450+rwhp 10 second NA LT1 for under $10k on here. You couldn't build just the motor for that much, and its a fully done car with proven record and good parts.
Last edited by Puck; 12-29-2014 at 05:21 PM.
12-30-2014, 02:38 PM
#18
TECH Fanatic
FWIW if/when I ever finish my motor(on the back burner, haven't touched it in at least a year) it will be someone north of 500rwhp through a stalled auto, and for an idea of what it takes I will have close to $20k in the motor alone - and that is getting some parts used for good deals.
Any idea how much horsepower people are getting out of engines with headers, exhaust and the Advanced Induction head & cam packages?
12-30-2014, 10:26 PM
#19
TECH Regular
Holy ****. That might be the first post I've read with a dollar amount attached to an engine build that included a horsepower estimate. 500 horsepower seemed a lot sexier when cost was an unknown.
Any idea how much horsepower people are getting out of engines with headers, exhaust and the Advanced Induction head & cam packages?
Any idea how much horsepower people are getting out of engines with headers, exhaust and the Advanced Induction head & cam packages?
My car with a 'mild' cam, stock shortblock and the 200cc heads, makes right around 405-410rwhp, depending on the dyno and day.
12-31-2014, 09:59 AM
#20
Holy ****. That might be the first post I've read with a dollar amount attached to an engine build that included a horsepower estimate. 500 horsepower seemed a lot sexier when cost was an unknown.
Any idea how much horsepower people are getting out of engines with headers, exhaust and the Advanced Induction head & cam packages?
Any idea how much horsepower people are getting out of engines with headers, exhaust and the Advanced Induction head & cam packages?
The extra 100-150rwhp does not come easy NA, mostly because of our shitty small bore that limits us from using "real" heads. If someone managed to sleeve all 8 bores successfully and pull a 4.1+ bore on a stroker and threw some 400cfm cup takeoffs on it you'd see a 750+hp NA LT1.
Talking about it makes me angry again at Dart for not making the aftermarket block because I would have bought one for sure. Once that project was canceled I kind of lost interest.