First drive with the new cam and t56
05-08-2016, 10:38 PM
#1
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First drive with the new cam and t56 So I just finished my cam swap, a cc503, my heads are stock, the springs have been changed out and I went with scorpion 1.6 RR. I also swapped from a 4l60e to a t56. I've got a couple litter bugs to work out hoping you guys could help.
Car is a 96 Trans Am. It has not been tuned yet. Gears are 3.23
First let's start easy, when we started driving it we noticed the speedometer was off it said we were going about 10mph but we had to be going about 25 30mph. Is this because of the trans swap or is something messed up in the wiring.
While accelerating from a stop the car seems to bog down and run rough and once you give it some gas it seems to run better. When it gets into 2nd gear it seems better but still a little rough.
Is all this tune related or is there a bigger problem?
Car is a 96 Trans Am. It has not been tuned yet. Gears are 3.23
First let's start easy, when we started driving it we noticed the speedometer was off it said we were going about 10mph but we had to be going about 25 30mph. Is this because of the trans swap or is something messed up in the wiring.
While accelerating from a stop the car seems to bog down and run rough and once you give it some gas it seems to run better. When it gets into 2nd gear it seems better but still a little rough.
Is all this tune related or is there a bigger problem?
05-09-2016, 06:37 AM
#3
You really shouldn't be driving it untuned, it could be super rich, letting raw fuel get past your rings and diluting your oil, which could wipe your bearings, or you could be lean and melt a piston. Get a mail order tune, the cc503 is such a common cam you can get a mail order tune that's almost spot on.
05-09-2016, 06:33 PM
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You really shouldn't be driving it untuned, it could be super rich, letting raw fuel get past your rings and diluting your oil, which could wipe your bearings, or you could be lean and melt a piston. Get a mail order tune, the cc503 is such a common cam you can get a mail order tune that's almost spot on.
This is pretty much what I'm hoping for. I want to do gears later the summer but don't know which ones that's why I wanted to hold off on a tune for the moment. But it doesn't seem like it's a good idea to drive it untuned. It is super rich at the moment. Is PCM FOR LESS the best place to get a mail order tune, or is there a way to pay a core and get another PCM or would that be a bad idea?
05-10-2016, 01:44 PM
#8
What's up with these threads about cam swaps then driving around untuned and making a thread about the obvious issues that are going to happen? 
This **** is not rocket science; you made major mechanical changes the PCM was never informed of....Get a tune!
This **** is not rocket science; you made major mechanical changes the PCM was never informed of....Get a tune! 
05-10-2016, 05:39 PM
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Not sure really any input? Was thinking 4.10s with the 6 speed would probably be best but the car will be mainly a street car.
The drive we took was a few blocks then back to the house as I tasted above I still have a few things to button up. It's not like I was gonna hammer it out on a 3 hour crusie to the dragstrip. I'm well aware of the changes that have to be made to the PCM after all the work I did. My orignal question was is it related to being untuned. As far as holding off on getting the tune there's a few things I have to do before I wanted to get a tune. I was worried about getting a tune then having something go wrong have have to swap something else need swapped that's really the main reason I was wanting to wait a few weeks. But thanks for being a smart ***, it doesn't go unappreciated on my end.
I purchased a tune on a core computer last night hoping I'll have it in a few days. With any luck it will fix the issues we noticed on the test drive.
I purchased a tune on a core computer last night hoping I'll have it in a few days. With any luck it will fix the issues we noticed on the test drive.
05-10-2016, 05:54 PM
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Are you running the original OBD2 PCM or did you switch over to OBD1?
Email tune with data logging through Solomon is a pretty good way to go. He'll give you a base tune to start with and then fine tune it based on your data logs. Ultimately, probably not as good as a competent dyno tune though. (Good luck finding someone around here that knows what they are doing with an LTx.)
What part of IL are you from BTW?
Email tune with data logging through Solomon is a pretty good way to go. He'll give you a base tune to start with and then fine tune it based on your data logs. Ultimately, probably not as good as a competent dyno tune though. (Good luck finding someone around here that knows what they are doing with an LTx.)
What part of IL are you from BTW?
05-10-2016, 08:58 PM
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This is pretty much what I'm hoping for. I want to do gears later the summer but don't know which ones that's why I wanted to hold off on a tune for the moment. But it doesn't seem like it's a good idea to drive it untuned. It is super rich at the moment. Is PCM FOR LESS the best place to get a mail order tune, or is there a way to pay a core and get another PCM or would that be a bad idea?
05-10-2016, 10:17 PM
#13
Outlaw..
3:23 gears with the T56 is really to high a gear. Slipping the clutch won't do it well.
4:10 is a great gear. At 80 MPH with a 27" tire my RPM is just under 2k.
On the street its a 4 speed. Fwy 5th and over 65 6th
When I did my A4 to T56 swap I had 3:73 and thought they would be good. They were "OK" but the 4:10 are perfect, IMHO.
3:23 gears with the T56 is really to high a gear. Slipping the clutch won't do it well.
4:10 is a great gear. At 80 MPH with a 27" tire my RPM is just under 2k.
On the street its a 4 speed. Fwy 5th and over 65 6th
When I did my A4 to T56 swap I had 3:73 and thought they would be good. They were "OK" but the 4:10 are perfect, IMHO.
05-11-2016, 12:46 AM
#14
But lighter cars (F and Y-bodies) get along fine with less gear than out cars; so to that end, he may get along OK with the 3.73's.
What I do know, however.....is if it were my car, I'd most likely go with 4.10's.
KW
05-11-2016, 07:03 AM
#15
Not sure really any input? Was thinking 4.10s with the 6 speed would probably be best but the car will be mainly a street car.
The drive we took was a few blocks then back to the house as I tasted above I still have a few things to button up. It's not like I was gonna hammer it out on a 3 hour crusie to the dragstrip. I'm well aware of the changes that have to be made to the PCM after all the work I did. My orignal question was is it related to being untuned. As far as holding off on getting the tune there's a few things I have to do before I wanted to get a tune. I was worried about getting a tune then having something go wrong have have to swap something else need swapped that's really the main reason I was wanting to wait a few weeks. But thanks for being a smart ***, it doesn't go unappreciated on my end.
I purchased a tune on a core computer last night hoping I'll have it in a few days. With any luck it will fix the issues we noticed on the test drive.
The drive we took was a few blocks then back to the house as I tasted above I still have a few things to button up. It's not like I was gonna hammer it out on a 3 hour crusie to the dragstrip. I'm well aware of the changes that have to be made to the PCM after all the work I did. My orignal question was is it related to being untuned. As far as holding off on getting the tune there's a few things I have to do before I wanted to get a tune. I was worried about getting a tune then having something go wrong have have to swap something else need swapped that's really the main reason I was wanting to wait a few weeks. But thanks for being a smart ***, it doesn't go unappreciated on my end.
I purchased a tune on a core computer last night hoping I'll have it in a few days. With any luck it will fix the issues we noticed on the test drive.
If you already knew the issues were un-tuned related, why make a thread about it? Waiting a "few weeks" as you originally suggested and still driving it would most likely cause MORE issues; foul your plugs, potentially clog your cat if you have one, wash down the cylinders with excess gas, ect. Glad you took my "smart ***" advice and got a tune ordered! Any reputable tuner will make small changes and adjustments free of charge, they can simply email you updates and you can make the changes with a laptop or mail in the PCM again...
05-11-2016, 09:54 AM
#16
Not sure really any input? Was thinking 4.10s with the 6 speed would probably be best but the car will be mainly a street car.
The drive we took was a few blocks then back to the house as I tasted above I still have a few things to button up. It's not like I was gonna hammer it out on a 3 hour crusie to the dragstrip. I'm well aware of the changes that have to be made to the PCM after all the work I did. My orignal question was is it related to being untuned. As far as holding off on getting the tune there's a few things I have to do before I wanted to get a tune. I was worried about getting a tune then having something go wrong have have to swap something else need swapped that's really the main reason I was wanting to wait a few weeks. But thanks for being a smart ***, it doesn't go unappreciated on my end.
I purchased a tune on a core computer last night hoping I'll have it in a few days. With any luck it will fix the issues we noticed on the test drive.
The drive we took was a few blocks then back to the house as I tasted above I still have a few things to button up. It's not like I was gonna hammer it out on a 3 hour crusie to the dragstrip. I'm well aware of the changes that have to be made to the PCM after all the work I did. My orignal question was is it related to being untuned. As far as holding off on getting the tune there's a few things I have to do before I wanted to get a tune. I was worried about getting a tune then having something go wrong have have to swap something else need swapped that's really the main reason I was wanting to wait a few weeks. But thanks for being a smart ***, it doesn't go unappreciated on my end.
I purchased a tune on a core computer last night hoping I'll have it in a few days. With any luck it will fix the issues we noticed on the test drive.
05-11-2016, 11:36 PM
#17
If his car were a B-body, I'd say 4.10 gears.....hands down.
But lighter cars (F and Y-bodies) get along fine with less gear than out cars; so to that end, he may get along OK with the 3.73's.
What I do know, however.....is if it were my car, I'd most likely go with 4.10's.
KW
But lighter cars (F and Y-bodies) get along fine with less gear than out cars; so to that end, he may get along OK with the 3.73's.
What I do know, however.....is if it were my car, I'd most likely go with 4.10's.
KW
If running a Shorter tire on the F-body, 3:73 starts to get better. With a .75 5th and .50 6th on the T56 the 4:10's work well with either gear set
I run a 26" MT ET at the track and really like the way the car launches with the 4:10's but yeah I have a few pounds on the F-body :-)
05-12-2016, 11:30 PM
#18
TECH Resident
I'm assuming that you kept your injectors stock.
It's been years since I tried it, but if I recall correctly the CC503's driveability will be just fine on the stock tune.
One of the things I did when chasing my slight bucking off idle was to put the stock tune in it with only the injector settings changed(as I have 30# SVOs in it after the cam swap).
I don't recall any driveability issues on the stock tune. No idle problems, no bogging, etc. Was it making as much peak power? Most likely not, but I'm not so sure the tune is your problem.
The one thing I most certainly noticed(on both tunes) is that the torque production was lower on the bottom end of the rev range with the CC503, but from 3500 up the power is excellent...well exceeding what a stock LS would feel like.
So...I'm going to be a naysayer here and make a prediction that a tune will not fix your issue. I hope I'm wrong and my memory is failing me, but I don't recall any of the issues you are having on the stock tune when trying it on my CC503.
As a matter of fact, I'm running the stock ignition map if I recall correctly...with a slightly altered VE MAP where I lowered the VE around 10-15% from 3500 down and increased it around 5-10% above 3500.
So...you may have some troubleshooting ahead of you. However, when you get it sorted out, the CC503 is a good cam for stock heads. I've really enjoyed mine. Just make sure you open up the exhaust. I was running stock exhaust manifolds(after the cam swap to save money) for a couple of years then went to long tubes. I picked up 5mph and dropped 0.4 in the 1/8mile alone with just the long tubes. Picked up an easy 30hp.
It's been years since I tried it, but if I recall correctly the CC503's driveability will be just fine on the stock tune.
One of the things I did when chasing my slight bucking off idle was to put the stock tune in it with only the injector settings changed(as I have 30# SVOs in it after the cam swap).
I don't recall any driveability issues on the stock tune. No idle problems, no bogging, etc. Was it making as much peak power? Most likely not, but I'm not so sure the tune is your problem.
The one thing I most certainly noticed(on both tunes) is that the torque production was lower on the bottom end of the rev range with the CC503, but from 3500 up the power is excellent...well exceeding what a stock LS would feel like.
So...I'm going to be a naysayer here and make a prediction that a tune will not fix your issue. I hope I'm wrong and my memory is failing me, but I don't recall any of the issues you are having on the stock tune when trying it on my CC503.
As a matter of fact, I'm running the stock ignition map if I recall correctly...with a slightly altered VE MAP where I lowered the VE around 10-15% from 3500 down and increased it around 5-10% above 3500.
So...you may have some troubleshooting ahead of you. However, when you get it sorted out, the CC503 is a good cam for stock heads. I've really enjoyed mine. Just make sure you open up the exhaust. I was running stock exhaust manifolds(after the cam swap to save money) for a couple of years then went to long tubes. I picked up 5mph and dropped 0.4 in the 1/8mile alone with just the long tubes. Picked up an easy 30hp.
Last edited by ACE1252; 05-12-2016 at 11:42 PM.
05-13-2016, 10:09 AM
#19
I'm assuming that you kept your injectors stock.
It's been years since I tried it, but if I recall correctly the CC503's driveability will be just fine on the stock tune.
One of the things I did when chasing my slight bucking off idle was to put the stock tune in it with only the injector settings changed(as I have 30# SVOs in it after the cam swap).
I don't recall any driveability issues on the stock tune. No idle problems, no bogging, etc. Was it making as much peak power? Most likely not, but I'm not so sure the tune is your problem.
The one thing I most certainly noticed(on both tunes) is that the torque production was lower on the bottom end of the rev range with the CC503, but from 3500 up the power is excellent...well exceeding what a stock LS would feel like.
So...I'm going to be a naysayer here and make a prediction that a tune will not fix your issue. I hope I'm wrong and my memory is failing me, but I don't recall any of the issues you are having on the stock tune when trying it on my CC503.
As a matter of fact, I'm running the stock ignition map if I recall correctly...with a slightly altered VE MAP where I lowered the VE around 10-15% from 3500 down and increased it around 5-10% above 3500.
So...you may have some troubleshooting ahead of you. However, when you get it sorted out, the CC503 is a good cam for stock heads. I've really enjoyed mine. Just make sure you open up the exhaust. I was running stock exhaust manifolds(after the cam swap to save money) for a couple of years then went to long tubes. I picked up 5mph and dropped 0.4 in the 1/8mile alone with just the long tubes. Picked up an easy 30hp.
It's been years since I tried it, but if I recall correctly the CC503's driveability will be just fine on the stock tune.
One of the things I did when chasing my slight bucking off idle was to put the stock tune in it with only the injector settings changed(as I have 30# SVOs in it after the cam swap).
I don't recall any driveability issues on the stock tune. No idle problems, no bogging, etc. Was it making as much peak power? Most likely not, but I'm not so sure the tune is your problem.
The one thing I most certainly noticed(on both tunes) is that the torque production was lower on the bottom end of the rev range with the CC503, but from 3500 up the power is excellent...well exceeding what a stock LS would feel like.
So...I'm going to be a naysayer here and make a prediction that a tune will not fix your issue. I hope I'm wrong and my memory is failing me, but I don't recall any of the issues you are having on the stock tune when trying it on my CC503.
As a matter of fact, I'm running the stock ignition map if I recall correctly...with a slightly altered VE MAP where I lowered the VE around 10-15% from 3500 down and increased it around 5-10% above 3500.
So...you may have some troubleshooting ahead of you. However, when you get it sorted out, the CC503 is a good cam for stock heads. I've really enjoyed mine. Just make sure you open up the exhaust. I was running stock exhaust manifolds(after the cam swap to save money) for a couple of years then went to long tubes. I picked up 5mph and dropped 0.4 in the 1/8mile alone with just the long tubes. Picked up an easy 30hp.
, but I think its due to not being tuned. After my tune, the car really woke up!
05-13-2016, 09:19 PM
#20
TECH Resident
Can't be exactly the same....your OBDI and he is OBDII. I'm OBDII as well(same model year '96).
I do remember the stock tune throwing a misfire code every now and again. My CC503 tune does have that code disabled....due to the cam change of course.
I do remember the stock tune throwing a misfire code every now and again. My CC503 tune does have that code disabled....due to the cam change of course.