Jonathan Dyer

I was under the car this morning to have a look at things before I change the water pump and I noticed a small accumulation of oil on the bolt that retains the sensor at the front of the oil pan.

I don't see any trail of oil coming down from above the Opti. Seems to be just at the sensor itself. Is there a gasket there that I can change?

Thanks,
Jon

BALLSS

the more common cause of what your leak "looks" like is the WP drive seal leaking. Oil migrates down to its lowest point.

Given you are replacing WP, it would be a good idea to replace the WP drive & Opti seals. They are included in the $12 felPro front timing cover gasket & seal kit you should get anyway doing a WP swap.

You may be able to more clearly see where leak is originating from once you get WP & Opti off

Not saying it is not your CPS O ring leaking....just way more likely the WP drive seal is.

You can clean up that area first and after a few days of driving look closely with a flashlight to try and se leak source but with WP & Opti on it is very hard to see anything.

Just going to have to carefully look. It could be front intake gasket, valve cover, crank seal....but the more likely cause is WP drive seal. That seal can be tricky to install without folding over the inner lip. Use some form of tool if not the specific one. Search will show a how to on it using various home brew tools.

Jonathan Dyer

Thanks vor your input.

I have ordered the felpro seal kit as I am sure that even if the water pump drive seal isn't leaking now it will as soon as I put everything back together.

Actually, after reading a variety of posts about leaks and how to change the WP drive seal etc. I was / am expecting that's where the oil is coming from. So, before putting the car away in December I gave it all a good cleaning. The car has done all of maybe ten miles since then (to and from the storage facility then in and out of the garage) and the rest still looks clean. The oil just appears to be on the retaining screw. Regardless, no point in doing the job twice so I'll change all the seals while I'm in there.

Out of interest, does this sensor supply oil pressure data to the PCM? My OPS for the cluster is mounted at the rear of the intake like a traditional SBC.

Thanks,
Jon

Badazz 97 TA

iTrader: (18)

I had the same exact thing happen to my car. I could not figure it out. I changed the entire front cover seals, that o ring, tried everything. I eventually converted to obd1 style timing chain cover to not deal with it anymore. Lol

BALLSS

That sensor you show in post 1 is the Crank Position Sensor, not oil pressure sensor.

While it could be the source of the leak, it more commonly is the WP drive seal

But given it is very easy to pull the CPS to see if the O ring somehow is bad and is the source of the leak just pull it and take a look. Clean up the area and drive for a few days and see if the leak appears to only coming from there. If so and the O ring does seem fine but still leaking from CPS just use a little RTV around that O ring. First clean it and the mating surface well.

again oil migrates to the lowest point of the motor and your pic looks classic WP seal leak but certainly could be one of the other TC seals or even the CPS. Tou will know once you get the Opti & WP off and can see the timing cover more clearly.

This kind of leak is more annoying than anything else. The amount of oil loss in minimal so it won't hurt to drive it some the way it is now, just leaves a drip on the driveway.

Jonathan Dyer

So, some slow progress. The underside is all painted and the rear suspension back on.
While everything is out of the way I've taken some time to polish up the timing cover and paint the front of the block etc.

I'm finally at the point of addressing this leak.

Last night at 2:00 AM I decided it was a good time to remove the water pump seal. If you look at the second pic you can see that I've damaged the inside of the timing cover some.

I'm assuming that the sealing surface is at the font edge and that as long as the seal can be driven in all the way it should still seal? I'm worried that the burr left behind will contact the rear edge of the seal. If I was to take a tiny file though I'd imagine that the filings will end up in my oil...

Thanks,
Jon

Badazz 97 TA

iTrader: (18)

At that point you might want to take it off and smooth it out before you put everything back together. Its a little more work. My question would be why did it get like that in the first plce. Did someone try to do something prior and fucked it up.

The seal does have to go on a specific way so make sure you do install it correct otherwise it will leak again. The back side of the seal has to point towards the back of the car without getting rolled. A sharpie cap helps with install.

BALLSS

Looks like you got a little aggressive removing the seal...

The "seal" part of the seal rides on the smooth shaft of that drive spline. Can't see all around it in the pic but if that surface is not scored you should be OK.

As mentioned some form of "tool" (sharpie pen body) or ones you buy for $20 on ebay or even using the spline collar itself to slide the new seal on it "carefully" so you don't fold over the seal lip that faces the motor. The purpose tool for this is tapered so sliding on the seal is easier.

You don't use any oil on this seal to install. It installs dry. It is a PTFE seal.

and next time take more care in removing the seal. Use a small screw driver to punch through the seal if you have to pry it out where the slot is on the TC...without hitting anything inside the motor. Or drill a small hole in face of seal and use a small sheet metal screw in it to then use a small pry claw hammer end to get under the head of that screw to pry the seal out.

Jonathan Dyer

You're right it does look like I got aggressive but it was all done in baby steps. I got to a point where I thought to myself "that's far enough" but I was unable to get the seal to budge.

So, I thought that perhaps the metal portion of the seal went back a little further than I had thought (would've taken all of 2 seconds to go and have a look at the replacement seal- duh).

The shaft does not appear to be scored so I think I'll be alright.

A mechanic friend of mine was suggesting I fire the car without the water pump for like 40 seconds just to see. I said that the oil pressure might not build sufficiently in such a short time for what might become a small leak to show. He said to try it and see if it spews oil. If it doesn't put it back together and hope.

I wouldn't worry about running an engine briefly with a malfunctioning water pump. But it occurred to me after the conversation that the heads must be empty. I imagine that the air in the heads would heat pretty much instantly.

Could that be done safely?

Thanks,
Jon

Badazz 97 TA

iTrader: (18)

There will still be coolant in the heads. They wont be completely dry. I started mine when I did Heads/cam for like a minute before I added coolant just to make sure everything was good. 40 secs wont overheat the engine.

You probably wont get much results with the seal to determine if its good or not with that short amount of time honestly.

Jonathan Dyer

<<You probably wont get much results with the seal to determine if its good or not with that short amount of time honestly.>>

That's what I was thinking too.

<<At that point you might want to take it off and smooth it out before you put everything back together.>>

I haven't smoothed it per se but I took a file in one hand and nicked of the high points with a magnet in my other hand to collect each filing as I did so.

<<My question would be why did it get like that in the first plce. Did someone try to do something prior and fucked it up.>>

I'd love to say that the previous owner was an idiot and screwed it up but the car was pretty well unmolested when I got it. I think that i have to assume that I'm the idiot :-(

Thanks for the replies.
We'll see what happens once it hits the street in a couple of weeks.

Jon

Jonathan Dyer

Just thought I would check back in and confirm that ****** was right on the money. The leak was indeed the water pump seal.

I did install it with the cut down body of a highlighter as suggested. With a little spray of "dry silicone", the kind that evaporates after two minutes or so, it went on without any drama.

Thanks again to all who lent their advice.
Jon