I need guidance for a 600 rwhp naturally aspirated lt1 383 running on premiu
04-19-2017, 02:48 PM
#41
TECH Resident
If you want to make big power on the street(that is on all the time), I think there are a couple of ways to do it.
Boost, displacement, or a combo of the two.
The most NA, on a street Gen II LT1, I've generally seen is in the 500 area...which is where I think I'll be when I'm done with mine.
I don't think REV's are the way to make power on the street. Thing will be a dog on the low end and driveability will be questionable.
That is a big 10-4.
Boost, displacement, or a combo of the two.
The most NA, on a street Gen II LT1, I've generally seen is in the 500 area...which is where I think I'll be when I'm done with mine.
I don't think REV's are the way to make power on the street. Thing will be a dog on the low end and driveability will be questionable.
That is a big 10-4.
04-19-2017, 04:55 PM
#42
TLDR....I stopped when you just tried to compare a 2.0 liter motor at 8k to an ls based motor at 8k. You're ENTIRE argument about piston speed in a v8 is exactly the reason RPMs kill v8s. You really need to do more research, it is WIDELY known on this site that the number 1 killer of ls and lt motors, assuming there are no issues like oil pressure or overheating....is RPMs. The piston speed and forces on the rod bearings is what kills them. And nobody says you have to put a ridiculous cam in the engine, that's purely choice. A 6500 red line in a boosted v8 will destroy an NA v8 reving to 7500 on the street due to the area under the curve power. And that lower reving motor will last longer, make more power, have less maintenance, and run on lower octane.
Last edited by PyroguyFTW; 04-19-2017 at 05:01 PM.
04-19-2017, 05:34 PM
#43
You don't have to agree with me. It is a known fact that getting more power is accomplished through higher rpm. All I said was that if he wanted 600 NA to the wheels with an LT1, rpm is the easiest way to get there. I even said it won't be reliable, it won't be reasonable to drive, and he will lose to cars with half the power. It's very simple. A car that makes 500 to the tire at 6k, given proper airflow, will go on to make 600 at around 7250. My point is that if you aren't after every drop of power, rpm is safer than boost.
Last edited by ddnspider; 04-19-2017 at 06:00 PM.
04-19-2017, 07:02 PM
#44
RPMs will kill an LT1 quicker then HP. The stock rod bolts don't like it and the pistons are pretty heavy.
Different things kill different motors. For an LT1, its usually RPMs and you spin a bearing. For a SBF, it could be HP when the block splits at ~500. For a 4cyl, it may be the connecting rods(...and the pistons, weak block sleeves, oil starvation, etc lol).
Can't just make a blanket statement like RPM is safer then HP, although it may be true in some cases. RPM is THE way to make power without boost...but it is expensive and difficult.
IMO in the end you need cubes, boost, and RPM to make power..in that order of importance. If you're not boosting, then up the cubes or up the RPMs.
Different things kill different motors. For an LT1, its usually RPMs and you spin a bearing. For a SBF, it could be HP when the block splits at ~500. For a 4cyl, it may be the connecting rods(...and the pistons, weak block sleeves, oil starvation, etc lol).
Can't just make a blanket statement like RPM is safer then HP, although it may be true in some cases. RPM is THE way to make power without boost...but it is expensive and difficult.
IMO in the end you need cubes, boost, and RPM to make power..in that order of importance. If you're not boosting, then up the cubes or up the RPMs.
04-21-2017, 12:26 AM
#47
TECH Addict
I meant at the flywheel, Ive helped on a few motors (ls,l98 and a couple
302) but never built my own that's why I'm even considering such a proposition and this isn't something that's gonna be done tomorrow so with any luck it'll be there in 2 years. Thanks for your concern and advice
302) but never built my own that's why I'm even considering such a proposition and this isn't something that's gonna be done tomorrow so with any luck it'll be there in 2 years. Thanks for your concern and advice
The tell is how do they take advice..
04-21-2017, 05:21 AM
#48
My vote to get you near 600 on a REASONABLE budget, is stock crank, forged rods and pistons, AI200s, and a 200 shot. Yes, people have made 600-700 on pump gas, I think Tanner did it, and some others, but it gets really expensive. You can do a 355 for $3500, AI package for $2500, rear for $2500, suspension for $1000, tires for $500, trans for $2500, fuel and exhaust for $1500, nitrous for $1000, tune for $400, and it keeps going. 425rwhp NA is easy, and you can survive on street tires and a 10 bolt for a while. Add that 200 shot and you need a trans and rear to take it. Without nitrous you need a new PCM, more displacement, shaft rockers to take more RPM, billet caps, and you probably won't be driving it to the grocery store anymore.
Here is the biggest dream crusher for an 18 year old: you put $10,000 into your $4000 LT1, it's still worth $4000. I love hot rodding and I totally encourage you to do what makes you happy, but my warning is do not get yourself into debt doing it. Racing on a credit card is the stupidest thing you can do. Modding a car doesn't add value. If you were 30 years old, had a solid job and no wife or kids and money to blow, I'd be egging you on to go for the moon, but you are 18 and you have to consider if dumping that kind of money into something with 0 return is worth it.
Here is the biggest dream crusher for an 18 year old: you put $10,000 into your $4000 LT1, it's still worth $4000. I love hot rodding and I totally encourage you to do what makes you happy, but my warning is do not get yourself into debt doing it. Racing on a credit card is the stupidest thing you can do. Modding a car doesn't add value. If you were 30 years old, had a solid job and no wife or kids and money to blow, I'd be egging you on to go for the moon, but you are 18 and you have to consider if dumping that kind of money into something with 0 return is worth it.
Last edited by bufmatmuslepants; 04-21-2017 at 05:30 AM.
04-21-2017, 02:55 PM
#52
[QUOTE=bufmatmuslepants;19599301
Here is the biggest dream crusher for an 18 year old: you put $10,000 into your $4000 LT1, it's still worth $4000. I love hot rodding and I totally encourage you to do what makes you happy, but my warning is do not get yourself into debt doing it. Racing on a credit card is the stupidest thing you can do. Modding a car doesn't add value. If you were 30 years old, had a solid job and no wife or kids and money to blow, I'd be egging you on to go for the moon, but you are 18 and you have to consider if dumping that kind of money into something with 0 return is worth it.[/QUOTE]
This.
Here is the biggest dream crusher for an 18 year old: you put $10,000 into your $4000 LT1, it's still worth $4000. I love hot rodding and I totally encourage you to do what makes you happy, but my warning is do not get yourself into debt doing it. Racing on a credit card is the stupidest thing you can do. Modding a car doesn't add value. If you were 30 years old, had a solid job and no wife or kids and money to blow, I'd be egging you on to go for the moon, but you are 18 and you have to consider if dumping that kind of money into something with 0 return is worth it.[/QUOTE]
This.
04-21-2017, 03:27 PM
#54
Village Troll 
iTrader: (2)
That's how those crazy kids got away with it when these cars were new in the 90's. Economic explosion, plenty of dot com jobs to go around starting at $40K+, and for a single guy living in an apartment or house full of roommates, money was no object. Not so much like that anymore.
Last edited by SS RRR; 04-21-2017 at 04:30 PM.
04-21-2017, 04:18 PM
#56
One thing I learned about advice is that no one listens anyway. People always do what they want to do. However, if you are going to dump $20k + into a car that books for $5k at most you are losing $15k. If you buy a newer car a few years old and do nothing to it, it will meet your performance goals but still be worth more as a percentage. I agree that cars are a terrible...absolutely terrible investment in time and money. (well, except for well to do folks who buy Porsche 911's--those cars always seem to appreciate over time)
04-21-2017, 06:55 PM
#57
One thing I learned about advice is that no one listens anyway. People always do what they want to do. However, if you are going to dump $20k + into a car that books for $5k at most you are losing $15k. If you buy a newer car a few years old and do nothing to it, it will meet your performance goals but still be worth more as a percentage. I agree that cars are a terrible...absolutely terrible investment in time and money. (well, except for well to do folks who buy Porsche 911's--those cars always seem to appreciate over time)
if something were to happen before he even starts paying towards the principle of the car like losing a job or similar he will be buried in debt. You can always stop modding a car you own if your life changes, you can't just stop making car payments. well you can but not until you're out from under it.
Last edited by myltwon; 04-21-2017 at 07:06 PM.
04-22-2017, 07:40 AM
#58
the payments on a $70-80K sports car will buy him a built motor in a couple months and he will likely owe more than its worth If he doesn't keep it for a few years and even then he will be chasing it's depreciating value.
if something were to happen before he even starts paying towards the principle of the car like losing a job or similar he will be buried in debt. You can always stop modding a car you own if your life changes, you can't just stop making car payments. well you can but not until you're out from under it.
if something were to happen before he even starts paying towards the principle of the car like losing a job or similar he will be buried in debt. You can always stop modding a car you own if your life changes, you can't just stop making car payments. well you can but not until you're out from under it.
Example: 4th gen LTx platform will need to have the trans rebuilt($2k+), aftermarket torque converter ($800+), trans cooler, aftermarket rear end ($2.5k+), aftermarket suspension pieces($1.5k+), full exhaust (which is getting harder to find for cheap), most likely aftermarket wheels, brakes, and other odds and end. If you were building a drag car you will need all the safety equipment, roll cage, trans shield, 5 pt harnesses, etc.
There are better platforms for a 600rwhp build than an ltx 4th gen.
04-22-2017, 10:04 AM
#59
Not the worse advice. I'd rather be $10k upside down on a 60k Vette then $10k upside down on a $5k Z28 
. In the mean time you have something more reliable and with a warranty. Don't even try to mod these cars if you are not willing to lose your *** if you decide to sell it, or willing to part it out and bust your knuckles recouping your money bit by bit.
No platform is cheap for 600rwhp. You either pay up front for the car, or pay for it in engine and supporting mods. If that wasn't true then everyone would have 600rwhp street cars.
Best performance street car for the money right now among any make or model is probably a C5. A streetable cam and bolt-ons make ~430-450rwhp, they only weight ~3200-3300, and can be had for $10-15k now. Still won't make anywhere near 600rwhp for cheap, but in that car you don't need that to go fast as hell. Hope you don't need a back seat though.
. In the mean time you have something more reliable and with a warranty. Don't even try to mod these cars if you are not willing to lose your *** if you decide to sell it, or willing to part it out and bust your knuckles recouping your money bit by bit.No platform is cheap for 600rwhp. You either pay up front for the car, or pay for it in engine and supporting mods. If that wasn't true then everyone would have 600rwhp street cars.
Best performance street car for the money right now among any make or model is probably a C5. A streetable cam and bolt-ons make ~430-450rwhp, they only weight ~3200-3300, and can be had for $10-15k now. Still won't make anywhere near 600rwhp for cheap, but in that car you don't need that to go fast as hell. Hope you don't need a back seat though.