Need opinions! USED afr 195cc or Lloyd Elliot?
 

Hey guys so I'm need of opinions! I came across a deal for some afr 195cc heads. Problem is I was dead set on sending my heads out to Lloyd for a le2 package with my own springs (comp 978). Now my goal is 420-450whp. I'm going 383 and porting my intake with all supporting bolt ons. Long story short the guy wants $750 but he also stated the valves need a cleaning and along with new valve seals. Is it worth it? I know Lloyd has had some awesome results but I'm just leaning towards the better bang for my buck here.

What generation are the AFR heads? If they're the older LT's, run away from them. None of the bolt holes in my AFR LT 195's were deep enough for stock bolts. They were all too shallow and as a result, all of the bolts had to be cut down. If they were willing to send them out with that level of QC, it made me question the rest of the head. Plus, the LT's are simply outdated tech now and Lloyd can do far better to just about anything you supply him with.

not exactly sure on what gen heads. I know he claims that tpis did some work and they started off as 55cc and are now 65cc. To how true that is I'm not sure he doesn't have a receipt on the work that was done so I'm a little unsure about it. I'd rather have the reassurance of brand new parts amongst the quality that comes with it. The price is a little tempting to pass up though.

There are identification numbers stamped into the front / rear of the heads. Ask the seller to send you images of them. Then ask AFR what you have, they're generally quick to reply. In my case, it was obvious because "LT" was stamped right on them, but AFR was able to give me a lot more data on them after I sent them the numbers.

thats not a bad deal at 750 especially if they are already assembled. you mentioned having valves in it. do you know what dize they are? springs? i would scoop them up and send them le to look over. chances are he can work his magic on them and youll have more potential than with his factory le2's

202 and 160 valves he also said their the .650 lift springs. Hard going of people's claims rather than printed receipts.

thanks man! I'll def ask him and do a little more digging.

I paid 2 grand for my LT4 AFR's 195cc's if someone told me they wanted to sell me a pair for $750... those things would already be sitting in my garage ready to go to a machine shop. Lloyd elliot is good but lloyd elliot isn't AFR. The tech and precision they put into their heads is ridiculous and you can always send them out to him to get every little last bit out of them. Lloyd is the go to guy for LT1 guys because he port works your pre existing heads which saves you money and now matches them to cams for them which makes setting up your engine easier and saves you time. In the olden days lloyd was the port work go to guy and people would get their custom cams from Joe. Overton.

Now a days just about every stock casting LT1 has been ported by lloyd and is running one of his cam packages. The LE1 and LE2 packages mainly and his stuff puts up good numbers but If you want to go with a 383 go with the bigger casting period and get the AFR's and send them to Lloyd and have them finish and touched up.

The LT4 heads will flow more than the LT1 castings. If you're trying to squeeze every drop out of that LT1 you're going to need LT4 heads.

Look for the casting on the front they should have numbers like mine.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/ls1tech...d2bba01220.jpg


If the heads check out and all they really need are valve seals, I would change the springs out altogether to Beehives if he has the stock AFR springs on there. They're crap.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/ls1tech...03ced69d97.jpg

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/ls1tech...8f77782a34.jpg

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/ls1tech...5972f33bcd.jpg

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/ls1tech...4bf87a3002.jpg

I wouldn't be afraid to call Lloyd and ask him, believe it or not he'll give you an honest answer he understands you want what's best for the car.

If it was me I would probably pick up the AFR if you can be sure there in good shape other than what you mentioned. The AFR heads will flow better on the exhaust port the intake port will be similar to the LE2

[QUOTE=Heatmaker;19716565]I paid 2 grand for my LT4 AFR's 195cc's if someone told me they wanted to sell me a pair for $750... those things would already be sitting in my garage ready to go to a machine shop. Lloyd elliot is good but lloyd elliot isn't AFR. The tech and precision they put into their heads is ridiculous and you can always send them out to him to get every little last bit out of them. Lloyd is the go to guy for LT1 guys because he port works your pre existing heads which saves you money and now matches them to cams for them which makes setting up your engine easier and saves you time. In the olden days lloyd was the port work go to guy and people would get their custom cams from Joe. Overton.

Now a days just about every stock casting LT1 has been ported by lloyd and is running one of his cam packages. The LE1 and LE2 packages mainly and his stuff puts up good numbers but If you want to go with a 383 go with the bigger casting period and get the AFR's and send them to Lloyd and have them finish and touched up.

The LT4 heads will flow more than the LT1 castings. If you're trying to squeeze every drop out of that LT1 you're going to need LT4 heads.

Look for the casting on the front they should have numbers like mine.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/ls1tech...d2bba01220.jpg


If the heads check out and all they really need are valve seals, I would change the springs out altogether to Beehives if he has the stock AFR springs on there. They're crap.



LOL yea I was thinking the same thing. I'd be a fool to pass something like this up regardless of the seals. I'll def talk to Lloyd about what more I could do to get the most out of these. Hopefully I could throw my 978 springs and titanium retainers I have on these as well. Here's a couple shots of the heads

Thanks for the insight man I'm really hoping it all checks out

I had no problems with my AFR dual valve springs.. They are made by PAC..

Depends on what cam you're running them with. The ones I took off had a max .550 lift. the hives I replaced them with had a .600+ lift. I was a matching it with a Joe. O custom grind for a 383 so it would of really pushed those stock afr springs but if you have the heads off the car and they're used it's just cheaper and easier to swap em out when you're cleaning up or replacing the valves. I would never use someones old springs anyway. My AFR LT4 heads are older versions though I think they upgraded the springs since then.

Talk to Lloyd. You won't be sorry. If you're going to use your factory intake, send that to him also.

afr no need to make the head huge for a flow #, work on those all the time.

Had this on my dart heads too.