LT1-LT4 Modifications 1993-97 Gen II Small Block V8

Help me pass California smog, high NOx with a bolt on LT1

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 02-06-2019, 07:03 PM
  #1  
TECH Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
nitroheadz28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 435
Received 1 Like on 1 Post

Default Help me pass California smog, high NOx with a bolt on LT1

Hi gents, I picked up my 3rd fbody as well as my first LS2 GTO in the last few weeks. The Camaro is a 94 with bolt ons and lots of other goodies that I got pretty cheap, it failed smog the day that I bought it but made the choice to buy it anyway. It passed every test with the exception of exceeding the NOx measurements. NO PPM emissions results:

15 mph: 586 MAX, 342 AVG, 709 measured
25mph: 706 MAX, 320 AVG. 977 measured

The smog tech commented that the engine was running too cold, car had been driven for a good 20 minutes and taken on the freeway prior to testing with 1/4 tank of gas. I haven't ordered an ALDL cable yet but the gauge shows the engine basically never exceeding about 175-180* when fully warmed up, the smog tech said its running too cold. Previous owner said it passed just fine as is when he had it done last year. So at a minimum I'm thinking its got a 160* thermostat (My 95 T/A had one with a tune and ran about the same) along with the high speed fan coming on around that peak temp so I assume its tuned. First order of business is setting the fans back to OEM and changing to a stock thermostat, anything else I could play with to ensure it won't fail when I have it retested?

It's got: K&N CAI, some type of shorty headers (Unknown brand, surface rust makes it hard to tell but hooked up to EGR), high flow cat (Haven't lifted the car up yet to check what kind) and a full 3" catback. By the way, California sucks with this stuff..

Any suggestions? Thank you.

Last edited by nitroheadz28; 02-06-2019 at 07:56 PM.
Old 02-06-2019, 09:08 PM
  #2  
TECH Resident
 
Fast355's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Euless, TX
Posts: 900
Received 132 Likes on 113 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by nitroheadz28
Hi gents, I picked up my 3rd fbody as well as my first LS2 GTO in the last few weeks. The Camaro is a 94 with bolt ons and lots of other goodies that I got pretty cheap, it failed smog the day that I bought it but made the choice to buy it anyway. It passed every test with the exception of exceeding the NOx measurements. NO PPM emissions results:

15 mph: 586 MAX, 342 AVG, 709 measured
25mph: 706 MAX, 320 AVG. 977 measured

The smog tech commented that the engine was running too cold, car had been driven for a good 20 minutes and taken on the freeway prior to testing with 1/4 tank of gas. I haven't ordered an ALDL cable yet but the gauge shows the engine basically never exceeding about 175-180* when fully warmed up, the smog tech said its running too cold. Previous owner said it passed just fine as is when he had it done last year. So at a minimum I'm thinking its got a 160* thermostat (My 95 T/A had one with a tune and ran about the same) along with the high speed fan coming on around that peak temp so I assume its tuned. First order of business is setting the fans back to OEM and changing to a stock thermostat, anything else I could play with to ensure it won't fail when I have it retested?

It's got: K&N CAI, some type of shorty headers (Unknown brand, surface rust makes it hard to tell but hooked up to EGR), high flow cat (Haven't lifted the car up yet to check what kind) and a full 3" catback. By the way, California sucks with this stuff..

Any suggestions? Thank you.
Hard to tell from the NOx readings alone.

The last time my old G20 van had to pass a dyno test in Texas was 12 years ago and did it with a 10.5:1 Vortec head cammed TPI 383 with SLP runners and thorley tri-y headers. I had high flowing but heavy loaded cats, scoggin dickeys EGR kit with the TPI Corvette style EGR feed pipe, a new GM TPI EGR valve, new AC Delco O2 sensor, flow matched LT4 injectors and a good tune in the ECM. Correct ignition timing, good fuel delivery, good air/fuel mixture and correct EGR functi​​​​​​on as well as proper catalytic converter operation all play a part in a clean running engine.

Last edited by Fast355; 02-06-2019 at 09:17 PM.
Old 02-06-2019, 09:20 PM
  #3  
TECH Regular
 
Phoenix'97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 456
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by nitroheadz28
Hi gents, I picked up my 3rd fbody as well as my first LS2 GTO in the last few weeks. The Camaro is a 94 with bolt ons and lots of other goodies that I got pretty cheap, it failed smog the day that I bought it but made the choice to buy it anyway. It passed every test with the exception of exceeding the NOx measurements. NO PPM emissions results:

15 mph: 586 MAX, 342 AVG, 709 measured
25mph: 706 MAX, 320 AVG. 977 measured

The smog tech commented that the engine was running too cold, car had been driven for a good 20 minutes and taken on the freeway prior to testing with 1/4 tank of gas. I haven't ordered an ALDL cable yet but the gauge shows the engine basically never exceeding about 175-180* when fully warmed up, the smog tech said its running too cold. Previous owner said it passed just fine as is when he had it done last year. So at a minimum I'm thinking its got a 160* thermostat (My 95 T/A had one with a tune and ran about the same) along with the high speed fan coming on around that peak temp so I assume its tuned. First order of business is setting the fans back to OEM and changing to a stock thermostat, anything else I could play with to ensure it won't fail when I have it retested?

It's got: K&N CAI, some type of shorty headers (Unknown brand, surface rust makes it hard to tell but hooked up to EGR), high flow cat (Haven't lifted the car up yet to check what kind) and a full 3" catback. By the way, California sucks with this stuff..

Any suggestions? Thank you.
I would definitely replace the thermostat with a certified stock replacement! Don't trust the autoparts store clerks, mistakes happen all too often and you end up with the wrong part despite the computer saying otherwise, it is not correct for the car! They even list some LS1 parts for our LT1s so someone confused the 1996 Corvette end year of the LT1 and listed LS1 parts for 1997 F-bodies. If the fans are turning on too soon and too often you need them set back to stock temp!

With regards to your exhaust, I have a thread on here that went horribly off topic and I ended up confessing that I was wrong to swap my factory exhaust manifolds over to the hooker shorties I now have, I lost low end torque, it melted wires including some on my computer harness, and that heat is not being retained in the headers but being released into the engine bay! From my research cast iron exhaust manifolds help with emissions by keeping those gases hot on their way to your catalytic converter which is another problem! If you have a "performance high flow" catalytic converter, this is also the likely source of your problem since it has less catalyst material to convert your exhaust gases over to less harmful gases!

I understand if you want performance exhaust headers but the best compromise is to get port matched cast iron exhaust manifolds. If you can source the original cast iron manifolds you can have a machine shop port them for you and maybe even clean up the surface rust. I am actually considering just buying the expensive and reworked exhaust manifolds from Brzezinski racing, at least that money is staying in the United States and I help the business out by buying a rather awesome upgraded cast iron exhaust manifold that flows a bit better than from the factory.

Your catalytic converter, you need to get a CARB certified one! This is the ONLY WAY to ensure you have a catalytic converter with the same amount of catalyst material that the factory catalytic converter would have had. FURTHERMORE, your oxygen sensors will function as they should since your catalytic converter is doing it's job within factory specification! This is why many people have faults with their oxygen sensors when used on high flow performance cats, those cats are not filtering the exhaust gases enough within factory specification and the oxygen sensors are in essence given bad data and the computer compensates accordingly increasing emissions and resulting in failed tests!

I hope this helps!
Old 02-06-2019, 09:26 PM
  #4  
TECH Resident
 
Fast355's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Euless, TX
Posts: 900
Received 132 Likes on 113 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by Phoenix'97
I would definitely replace the thermostat with a certified stock replacement! Don't trust the autoparts store clerks, mistakes happen all too often and you end up with the wrong part despite the computer saying otherwise, it is not correct for the car! They even list some LS1 parts for our LT1s so someone confused the 1996 Corvette end year of the LT1 and listed LS1 parts for 1997 F-bodies. If the fans are turning on too soon and too often you need them set back to stock temp!

With regards to your exhaust, I have a thread on here that went horribly off topic and I ended up confessing that I was wrong to swap my factory exhaust manifolds over to the hooker shorties I now have, I lost low end torque, it melted wires including some on my computer harness, and that heat is not being retained in the headers but being released into the engine bay! From my research cast iron exhaust manifolds help with emissions by keeping those gases hot on their way to your catalytic converter which is another problem! If you have a "performance high flow" catalytic converter, this is also the likely source of your problem since it has less catalyst material to convert your exhaust gases over to less harmful gases!

I understand if you want performance exhaust headers but the best compromise is to get port matched cast iron exhaust manifolds. If you can source the original cast iron manifolds you can have a machine shop port them for you and maybe even clean up the surface rust. I am actually considering just buying the expensive and reworked exhaust manifolds from Brzezinski racing, at least that money is staying in the United States and I help the business out by buying a rather awesome upgraded cast iron exhaust manifold that flows a bit better than from the factory.

Your catalytic converter, you need to get a CARB certified one! This is the ONLY WAY to ensure you have a catalytic converter with the same amount of catalyst material that the factory catalytic converter would have had. FURTHERMORE, your oxygen sensors will function as they should since your catalytic converter is doing it's job within factory specification! This is why many people have faults with their oxygen sensors when used on high flow performance cats, those cats are not filtering the exhaust gases enough within factory specification and the oxygen sensors are in essence given bad data and the computer compensates accordingly increasing emissions and resulting in failed tests!

I hope this helps!
I had Tri-y long tubes, non CARB certified high flow cats, and still passed very clean here in Texas. With more cubes, more cam and an older ECM. Due to Texas being somewhat leniant, I had a X-pipe in front of the cats to even out the flow and temperature of the exhaust gases entering the cats since they were both on the driverside of the van with a long crossover pipe from the passenger side. The crossover pipe was header wrapped because it passed close to the trans pan and I was trying to keep the heat in the pipe and out of the trans pan.

Higher engine temps will only increase your NOx readings. I never ran more than a 170°F thermostat in my engine, had a 454 4-core radiator and dual electric fans that came on at 180°F.

The results above speak for themself for the setup I was running. I would be willing to bet my setup ran clean enough to pass California test standards for that 94 with ease.

Also on OBD1 O2 sensor function has NOTHING to do with cat function. You could have straight pipes after the 02 sensors for all the ECM cares. I have done numerous LT1 and LS engines into non emissions controlled cars that still ran perfectly without cats.

Last edited by Fast355; 02-06-2019 at 09:40 PM.
Old 02-06-2019, 09:39 PM
  #5  
TECH Regular
 
Phoenix'97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 456
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Fast355
I had Tri-y long tubes, non CARB certified high flow cats, and still passed very clean here in Texas. With more cubes, more cam and an older ECM. Due to Texas being somewhat leniant, I had a X-pipe in front of the cats to even out the flow and temperature of the exhaust gases entering the cats since they were both on the driverside of the van with a long crossover pipe from the passenger side.

Higher engine temps will only increase your NOx readings. I never ran more than a 170°F thermostat in my engine, had a 454 4-core radiator and dual electric fans that came on at 180°F.

The results above speak for themself for the setup I was running. I would be willing to bet my setup ran clean enough to pass California test standards for that 94 with ease.
I respect you and I have to STRESS, please don't assume you would pass California emissions and the visual inspection! You live in Texas, the standards are likely no where near as strict as in California. The original poster's best bet is to keep this car as stock and stock looking as he can! He won't go wrong with the cast iron exhaust manifolds, especially with them being ported. It's not much but given my own personal experience, he is better ditching the shorties! Fresh high horsepower GM crate engines come with cast iron exhaust manifolds so they can't be that bad for performance!
Old 02-06-2019, 09:46 PM
  #6  
TECH Resident
 
Fast355's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Euless, TX
Posts: 900
Received 132 Likes on 113 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by Phoenix'97
I respect you and I have to STRESS, please don't assume you would pass California emissions and the visual inspection! You live in Texas, the standards are likely no where near as strict as in California. The original poster's best bet is to keep this car as stock and stock looking as he can! He won't go wrong with the cast iron exhaust manifolds, especially with them being ported. It's not much but given my own personal experience, he is better ditching the shorties! Fresh high horsepower GM crate engines come with cast iron exhaust manifolds so they can't be that bad for performance!
I never once said visual inspection. I said tail pipe test. I know for a fact those numbers would pass for a 94 LT1 in california. Your high HP crate engines with cast iron manifolds are also LS based engines that have better manifold designs than the older small blocks though. Not everyone has experienced YOUR issues with shorties. I have had more cracked OEM manifolds than issues with shorties myself. I have had shorties on several vehicles with no issues and good results. My Hemi Ram went low 13s with shorty headers and factory cats. My 4.7 Dakota went high 13s with shorties and a single cat. Both saw small fuel economy improvements and more torque with the shorties. I had to pull the 4.7 out of the Dakota to remove broken stock manifold bolts which is why the logs got swapped for headers. Cast iron expands on a hard running engine and the OEM bolts break on those engines. I towed trailers with both and the difference was very noticeable with 5-8,000 lbs behind the truck. The TPI F-car I just built has shorties and runs fantastic. I had shorties on my 350 Vortec in my Express van for 2 years (after both of the manifolds had cracked at 60K miles) until I upgraded to the Tri-Ys as well. The Tri-Ys were noticeable over the shorties which were noticeable over the manifolds. The 305 in my brothers C10 had shorties as well. Not a single one had an issue.
​​​​

Last edited by Fast355; 02-06-2019 at 09:56 PM.
Old 02-07-2019, 01:26 AM
  #7  
TECH Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
nitroheadz28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 435
Received 1 Like on 1 Post

Default

Thank you gentlemen for your thoughts, I'll continue as planned for the time being since the car passed every other test. I attached a picture of the full test results so you can have a better idea of whats going on and if anyone has any other input. Thanks again!



Old 02-07-2019, 04:56 AM
  #8  
TECH Regular
 
atlantadan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Tucker, GA
Posts: 472
Received 14 Likes on 12 Posts

Default

I have a cammed 383, 160 degree t-stat, longtube headers, shorty high-flow cats, x-pipe, etc and my car would pass CA smog. (I have to smog here in ATL too.) There seems to be some confusion here regarding temperatures and NOx. High combustion temps increase NOx. You can have a 160 degree stat and combustion temps that are too high, which will knock your NOx out of spec.

Check your EGR system for functionality first. In CA, a good EGR system is vital because it lowers combustion temperatures by introducing exhaust gasses into the a/f mix which has the effect of cooling combustion. If you have a cam with enough overlap - it will create a 'self-egr' sort of function so that's why some can ditch the EGR system (like me) and be ok with NOx. There are some easy tests you can do to ensure that your EGR system is functioning and they are laid out on Shbox site. If EGR has been confirmed good, then pull a plug and look at the heat-range of the plug. If you don't see any knock on a datalog, try going up a heat-range. This will have a very minute effect on combustion temps, but it may be enough when combined with other things to help you pass. Then I'd check (or just replace) every single rubber line connected to the emissions system off of the intake manifold. A vac leak anywhere will effect how much that EGR valve is pulled in. Then check the entire exhaust system for leaks and repair any that are found. Finally, give the car a complete tune-up, dump in some premium fuel, and roll the dice on some of that "Guarantied to Pass" stuff you dump in the tank.

The rest of your #'s look really good - so I'd start with the EGR system since that holds the most promise.

Last edited by atlantadan; 02-07-2019 at 01:25 PM.
Old 02-07-2019, 01:03 PM
  #9  
TECH Regular
 
Phoenix'97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 456
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by atlantadan
I have a cammed 383, 160 degree t-stat, longtube headers, shorty high-flow cats, x-pipe, etc and my car would pass CA smog. (I have to smog here in ATL too.) There seems to be some confusion here regarding temperatures and NOx. High combustion temps increase NOx. You can have a 160 degree stat and combustion temps that are too high, which will knock your NOx out of spec.
When I was researching leaning out the air-fuel mixture for better fuel economy I came into the problem of increased NOx emissions. Leaner fuel ratio is a good contributor. So what components or devices would result in a lean burn? Are the oxygen sensors being fooled by the high flow catalytic converter?! Other things that can cause this are: vacuum leak (emissions equipment), bad MAF sensor or dirty sensor, and bad coolant temperature sensor.

Old 02-07-2019, 01:22 PM
  #10  
TECH Regular
 
atlantadan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Tucker, GA
Posts: 472
Received 14 Likes on 12 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by Phoenix'97
When I was researching leaning out the air-fuel mixture for better fuel economy I came into the problem of increased NOx emissions. Leaner fuel ratio is a good contributor. So what components or devices would result in a lean burn? Are the oxygen sensors being fooled by the high flow catalytic converter?! Other things that can cause this are: vacuum leak (emissions equipment), bad MAF sensor or dirty sensor, and bad coolant temperature sensor.
CTS is a super easy thing to test. Put a voltmeter on it and check. Also, when a CTS goes bad, most of the time the PCM goes rich - not lean. It flatlines and the PCM things the engine is cold. Again, stupid easy to test with a voltmeter or by watching live data on a scanner.

Looking at the rest of the smog readings, the A/F mix looks pretty damn impressive so I would probably rule out a CTS. But a scan would tell for sure.

I strongly suspect this is all related to EGR. There are passages in the intake that can get gummed up with crap and decrease gas-flow, lessening the cooling-effect of the exhaust gasses. That, or a vacuum leak. Or both.
Old 02-08-2019, 09:07 AM
  #11  
TECH Veteran
 
BALLSS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,903
Received 87 Likes on 78 Posts

Default

Have dealt with CA emissions for 23 years and with H/C/Shorty Header, high flow CATS, etc 383 LT1 and always passed. Aside from motor and emission components being in perfect working condition, the tune needs to be spot on

Op's case high cyl temps are likely pushing NO to far. EGR and CAT need to be working right.

Scan tool to read STFT and 02 function help determine if those are solid

with engine running reach behind EGR and push in diaphragm, if car stumbles it is working

If the car has a 160 stat and lower fan temps you can just put in a 185 stat and leave fan temp in PCM alone. Just let the car idle for about 5 min before you pull into shop and temps will climb back up. They will drop back down once you start driving but for the smog test without car moving they will be up in the stock operating range. Higher temp motor will get the CATS to lite off better
Old 02-08-2019, 11:04 AM
  #12  
TECH Resident
 
Fast355's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Euless, TX
Posts: 900
Received 132 Likes on 113 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by ******
Have dealt with CA emissions for 23 years and with H/C/Shorty Header, high flow CATS, etc 383 LT1 and always passed. Aside from motor and emission components being in perfect working condition, the tune needs to be spot on

Op's case high cyl temps are likely pushing NO to far. EGR and CAT need to be working right.

Scan tool to read STFT and 02 function help determine if those are solid

with engine running reach behind EGR and push in diaphragm, if car stumbles it is working

If the car has a 160 stat and lower fan temps you can just put in a 185 stat and leave fan temp in PCM alone. Just let the car idle for about 5 min before you pull into shop and temps will climb back up. They will drop back down once you start driving but for the smog test without car moving they will be up in the stock operating range. Higher temp motor will get the CATS to lite off better
Actually just because you manually open the EGR valve does not mean it is working. The vacuum diaphragm could be torn, the internal back pressure valve stuck open or closed, the egr control piping damaged or leaking or the solenoid valve bad etc. The valves can and do go bad. The passageways get plugged. Exhaust back pressure or the lack of can also prevent enough EGR from reaching the intake. If the OP has ability to tune the PCM, he could pull about 6-8* of timing across the whole timing map which would drop the NOx reading substantially. Retarding the ignition timing also tends to cause greater heat in the exhaust which heats the cat up hotter and helps burn up the hydrocarbons as well.
Old 02-08-2019, 05:53 PM
  #13  
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (7)
 
Spartan7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Spring, TX
Posts: 1,714
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes on 5 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by Phoenix'97
Your catalytic converter, you need to get a CARB certified one! This is the ONLY WAY to ensure you have a catalytic converter with the same amount of catalyst material that the factory catalytic converter would have had. FURTHERMORE, your oxygen sensors will function as they should since your catalytic converter is doing it's job within factory specification! This is why many people have faults with their oxygen sensors when used on high flow performance cats, those cats are not filtering the exhaust gases enough within factory specification and the oxygen sensors are in essence given bad data and the computer compensates accordingly increasing emissions and resulting in failed tests!!
Jeez, you're long-winded. CARB doesn't mean anything, unless the tech wants to be picky and look for the EO number on an aftermarket cat. Any quality aftermarket brand can pass CA smog. When I still lived there years ago, I passed with high flow cats and a small cam. And the cats have nothing to do with the front O2's, which are the only ones used for fuel trim. The rears are ONLY used to verify a working cat.
Old 02-09-2019, 08:36 AM
  #14  
TECH Veteran
 
BALLSS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,903
Received 87 Likes on 78 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by Fast355
If the OP has ability to tune the PCM, he could pull about 6-8* of timing across the whole timing map which would drop the NOx reading substantially. Retarding the ignition timing also tends to cause greater heat in the exhaust which heats the cat up hotter and helps burn up the hydrocarbons as well.
Quite likely the PO of the OP's car has a "tune" in the PCM. Yes pulling some timing and restoring the fan on temps to stock will greatly reduce NO & HC.

I had my tuner do a "smog tune" for my spare PCM which was using my regular tune, just pulling the timing and setting the fan on temp to stock. I have always passed with my regular tune but at some point I may not as the thresholds for smog test gets lower and as the motor ages emissions get higher so at some point those two factors will cross. If or when that happens I can swap PCM's for smog test every 2 years. You can also have your IM monitors set to read ready all the time in the tune so swapping PCM's or having to disconnect battery for any reason does not require the car to go through all the "drive cycles" so the IM monitors show ready for smog test. As of 1/1/18 you are only allowed 1 IM monitor to show not ready vs what used to be 2 here in CA

Of course all emission equipment (02's, EGR, CATS), no vac leaks, etc need to be in good working order.....

Old 02-10-2019, 10:58 AM
  #15  
Teching In
 
JimCT_9C1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

+1 on EGR as the cuplrit -

I have had more than my share of NOx emissions test fails, and it was always EGR related.
Just use methodical troubleshooting as described above and on shbox. I generally start at the valve and work back toward the intake manifold.
If you find a problem, don't stop there - keep checking as there can be multiple contributors (e.g., valve frozen since the solenoid failed).

My standard approach:
1. Engine Off - Check the valve can be moved manually with finger or tool (valve not frozen)
2. Engine Off - Test valve diaphragm by disconnecting vacuum line at EGR valve. Move valve by hand and place finger over vacuum port, or apply vacuum with pump (valve should hold position and vacuum, should move then hold position and vacuum using pump)
3. Engine Idling - Move the valve manually or with vacuum pump while idling to see if you get a stumble (yes is good - internal EGR passages open)
4. Drive Test - Disconnect vacuum line at EGR valve, attach vacuum gage and place where you can see it while driving. At light/med cruise should see the gage move from zero to near manifold vacuum. May have variable vacuum since this is not just an on-off solenoid but is rapidly pulsed by PCM. Will drop back to zero under other conditions. Scan tool is great here to see the PCM commands and the vacuum gage response. (problems here could be the solenoid valve, wiring, vacuum lines, or PCM programming).
5. Continue with basic vacuum, mechanical, electrical checks as needed to isolate problems in those areas (again see shbox).

Since you mentioned adjusted fan temps, you should confirm the EGR function has not been disabled in your tune.

Hope this helps, and good luck -

Jim
Old 05-03-2019, 04:41 PM
  #16  
TECH Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
nitroheadz28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 435
Received 1 Like on 1 Post

Default

Hey guys, thank you all so much for your help and advice. I've been crazy busy and haven't gotten around to do much with the car other than getting another temp tag extension.

So where I'm at now in regards to this issue. I changed the T-stat to an OEM 180*. Confirmed I have no intake or exhaust leaks. Partially checked EGR function, engine stumbles when the diaphragm is depressed and it holds vacuum. I have not hooked it up to a vacuum gauge yet, still trying to figure out what I need for this.

I'm at now is trying to set my fans to come on at a higher temperature but still trying to figure out all the constants/ tables to adjust. If anyone would knows that would be a BIG help because I need this to pass smog yesterday.

Originally Posted by Fast355
Actually just because you manually open the EGR valve does not mean it is working. The vacuum diaphragm could be torn, the internal back pressure valve stuck open or closed, the egr control piping damaged or leaking or the solenoid valve bad etc. The valves can and do go bad. The passageways get plugged. Exhaust back pressure or the lack of can also prevent enough EGR from reaching the intake. If the OP has ability to tune the PCM, he could pull about 6-8* of timing across the whole timing map which would drop the NOx reading substantially. Retarding the ignition timing also tends to cause greater heat in the exhaust which heats the cat up hotter and helps burn up the hydrocarbons as well.
I'd also consider doing this if anyone has any pointers for a newbie tuner. I don't want to mess anything up of course.
Old 05-03-2019, 09:40 PM
  #17  
TECH Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
nitroheadz28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 435
Received 1 Like on 1 Post

Default

I rented a Mityvac from Autozone since I didn't trust my beaten up Harbor Freight unit, checked EGR valve again with vacuum and it didn't hold too well. I bought a new one and installed it. Then I tried what Jim suggested here because the shbox troubleshooting method seems to be for OBD2 LT1s only? OBD1 doesn't seem to have a field service mode where you can jump the pins and engage the solenoid. I connected the vacuum pump to the outlet from the EGR valve and nothing? When I pull vacuum it holds, I start the engine with vacuum and it drops to zero. I took it for a quick drive and under no conditions did the gauge move. Am I missing something? Anything else I can do?

Edit- Apparently you jump pins A & B to get into field service mode on the OBD1 cars. Will try that test tomorrow morning, otherwise I forgot to mention that I checked vacuum at the feed coming from the intake and its plenty.

Originally Posted by JimCT_9C1
+1 on EGR as the cuplrit -

I have had more than my share of NOx emissions test fails, and it was always EGR related.
Just use methodical troubleshooting as described above and on shbox. I generally start at the valve and work back toward the intake manifold.
If you find a problem, don't stop there - keep checking as there can be multiple contributors (e.g., valve frozen since the solenoid failed).

My standard approach:
1. Engine Off - Check the valve can be moved manually with finger or tool (valve not frozen)
2. Engine Off - Test valve diaphragm by disconnecting vacuum line at EGR valve. Move valve by hand and place finger over vacuum port, or apply vacuum with pump (valve should hold position and vacuum, should move then hold position and vacuum using pump)
3. Engine Idling - Move the valve manually or with vacuum pump while idling to see if you get a stumble (yes is good - internal EGR passages open)
4. Drive Test - Disconnect vacuum line at EGR valve, attach vacuum gage and place where you can see it while driving. At light/med cruise should see the gage move from zero to near manifold vacuum. May have variable vacuum since this is not just an on-off solenoid but is rapidly pulsed by PCM. Will drop back to zero under other conditions. Scan tool is great here to see the PCM commands and the vacuum gage response. (problems here could be the solenoid valve, wiring, vacuum lines, or PCM programming).
5. Continue with basic vacuum, mechanical, electrical checks as needed to isolate problems in those areas (again see shbox).

Since you mentioned adjusted fan temps, you should confirm the EGR function has not been disabled in your tune.

Hope this helps, and good luck -

Jim

Last edited by nitroheadz28; 05-03-2019 at 09:53 PM.
Old 05-06-2019, 05:34 AM
  #18  
Teching In
 
JimCT_9C1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Post back what you find.

To be clear I plug the vacuum gage into the line from the solenoid where it normally connects to the EGR valve. Normal operation should look like I described.
If you have a good vacuum signal and no broken/leaky/plugged lines but the gage still doesn't move, it's the solenoid, wiring, or PCM/tune.

Hope this helps -

Jim
Old 05-06-2019, 04:03 PM
  #19  
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (4)
 
99 Black Bird T/A's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,583
Received 1,432 Likes on 992 Posts

Default

We used to sniffer test smog to California standards in North Carolina before ODB-2 scan replaced the sniffer.

1) My 91 RS would have the NOx creep up if the EGR valve was full of carbon build up and blocked.

2) Most TBI/TPI and LT1 cars have an Air pump that injects air into the exhaust to help burn pollutants. The extra air in the exhaust helps reduce NOx levels. I think most of the LT1 engines had an electric pump, might be worth making sure it's working if the other stuff doesn't get the car to pass. Most LT1 cars except the fbody got an exemption for replacing failed air pumps.

3) a good treatment of GM X66 decarbon can help too.
Old 05-07-2019, 01:17 PM
  #20  
TECH Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
nitroheadz28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 435
Received 1 Like on 1 Post

Default

It finally passed! But not without some drama in the process.. So it passed the sniffer, but they headers were too rusty for them to read the EO number needed for CARB. They had to fail me for that while I was on hold with Edelbrock for a while. I finally received a callback with the number, they re-smogged it and its all done now. Before the test I beat the **** out of it and ran the tank down to 1/4, and poured a gallon of denatured alcohol in the tank. It produced the following results:




For anyone in the same situation that needs the EO number for Edelbrock shorties, it is: D215-58

Last edited by nitroheadz28; 05-07-2019 at 01:23 PM.


Quick Reply: Help me pass California smog, high NOx with a bolt on LT1



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:23 AM.