SS RRR

iTrader: (2)

Just read this in its entirety. What I don't like are the two specific alleged disadvantages you list regarding cooling and spun bearings. Both of those are due to operator error and nothing else. If people actually lost an engine because of air bubbles then they knew **** all when it came to properly bleeding them out. The reverse cooling does mean something. It means an old school design from the factory could run a CR that hadn't been seen in decades and was something to behold after having to deal with bullshit performance throughout the gas "crisis." That is on them. Wiping bearings after opening an engine, again, has nothing to do with parts quality. It has to do with a sloppy install in a dirty work environment. Dealer or not it doesn't matter. If the tool behind the tool can't get this right then they need to be a tool in some other work environment.
By no means is this a "better than _______..." post, but rather just clearing up some bullshit. As far as opti's.. I can't comment on what you say because I have only ever experienced two failures in the 140K miles I've driven my car. One was the rotor screws. The other was a sensor from a Delco unit. Have had a Delphi in it for the past 10+ years and it appears to be doing fine even after being shifted above 7000rpm most of its life.

BALLSS

At some point in this threads life I posted my $.02...I still own my purchased new 1996 LT1 car (Impala SS). Far from stock but has been a solid running car its entire life. Is it or the Gen 2 LT1 platform perfect, F no but neither are any of the other cars I own which span 1967 to 2021.

Agree with SS RRR that most issues are owner injected or as he said "the tool behind the tool"

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

What you like or dislike is irrelevant.

GM's tooling was worn and many of the less skilled employees frequently didn't set the bearings up correctly. This lead to a lot of early failures in trucks & cars with Gen2 Vortec/LT1 engines compared to previous small block Chevy’s. There definitely were many good engines manufactured but GM's quality wasn't consistent due worn tooling combined with lack of employee skill. Problem was due to idiot management not replacing tooling and failing to train unskilled operators at the factory properly. Very bad combination for consistent quality.

The good news is the bad bearings time bombs have pretty much self destructed over the last 25 years.

Reverse cooling for the Gen 2 SBC was a band aid to squeeze a little more life out of the obsolete the Gen 2 SBC. It definitely meant more problems, issues & headaches. GM swiped the idea as implemented from Evan's as he was a little too trusting and careless with his IP.

Even dealerships with "properly trained factory techs" sometimes had issues "burping" all the air out of the cooling systems with reverse cooling in Gen2 LT1 in the mid/late 90.

SS RRR

iTrader: (2)

And this would only rear its ugly head after a cam or head swap? C'mon, man. Complete bullshit.
I won't argue that point, but it was not obsolete in the early 90's. Do you not remember the LT1 being one of the most powerful factory engines available at that time in history? What I will argue to the death are those who don't understand how to be rid of air in the system. There really is only one correct way to do this, and if you can't get rid of the air then you're doing something wrong. I also remember reading a lot of brilliant innovators who would think it was a good idea to get rid of the return line from the heads into the radiator.
All I read are those who were inept and are blaming their failures elsewhere.

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

No spun bearings reared their ugly head on a regular basis with stock cars and trucks that weren't modified. Had long conversations with a GM service manager back in the day about the issue and other Gen2 SBC LT1 issues. Lot of it covered under warranty etc.

Doing heads and cam (more high rpm) just greatly raised the risk of those marginal LT1's had had bad bearings breaking sooner instead of later.

Sure there are idiots that made mistakes an made even bigger messes out of the bandaided lash up GM sold.

Yes the obsolete bandaided LT1/LT4 had a nice last hoorah that was impressive. Just as impressive as that of TPI era in the 1980's when TPI Corvette's very nearly ran Porsche and several others out of SCCA racing.

69PrimedC10

iTrader: (2)

Still have mine but the LT1 is gone. Doing a 6.0 LQ9 swap with a Huron Speed turbo set-up.

SS RRR

iTrader: (2)

You mean someone could modify their engine, blow it up and have GM cover it under warranty? Or are you saying there was a recall for "bad" bearings? Are you really saying a dealer would knowingly be aware an engine was modified and cover new bearings under warranty? Service managers have never been known to be full of ****.
If it is a recall you're talking about, I'd love to see the reference number.

Exactly. This is how rumors get started regarding how reverse cooling was bad and bearings are no good and service managers know all.................
Absolutely. Just like the LT4 was very comparable to a LS1 stock for stock.

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

Not at all, mean lousy quality unmodified LT1's spun bearings.

No recall was issued.

Not saying that at all, despite your efforts to twist and put words in my mouth. The service manager was a very honest to a man. As stated issue happen frequently with unmodified stock engines. GM didn't issue a recall. Engines were fixed case by case if under warranty and unmodified.

GM's worn engine tooling issue is also mentioned in All Corvette's Are Red.



...and the Gen III/IV LS1, LS2 and LS3 etc are all surpassed today by the Gen V LT1, LT2 & LT4...


Not a rumor the Gen 2 LT1 build quality was inferior to the prior generation of Gen 1 SBC engine because the tooling had worn. It was more difficult to do quality machine work with the worn tooling. Highly experienced veteran employees could do it but newer less experienced ones had issues with the worn and tooling and often produced poorer quality engines. GM didn't invest $$$ in more new tooling for an old obsolete engine.

Gen 2 LT4's are cool in their own right despite suffering from the general Gen 2 LT1's faults.

LS1 left Gen LT1 in the dust in power, build quality and design.

LS6 left LT4 in the dust in power, build quality and design

LS2 left the LS1/LS6 behind...

SS RRR

iTrader: (2)

There's no "twisting" of words when asking questions, my guy. I dunno... I lived through a time where modding LT1/4th gen. f-bodys and going to the track and comparing ET's and talking **** to each other was commonplace both here and at the track. The first internal mods done during the mid 90's was a cam swap. It was cheap/easy power rather than spending money on heads and cam. Locally, in the DFW area when I lived there I'd never witnessed a "bad" bearing after a cam swap. The bearings I did see spun were done by those who did not know what they were doing including one dealership in Virginia. Never have I ever heard of a dealership warrantying excessive bearing wear. That's ******* comical!
What this sounds like are people who fucked up their install, or along with a cam installed a high pressure oil pump, spun the engine to the moon and ran the pan dry. They then went back to stock, found a dealer who didn't necessarily care, and with hat in hands, "I have no idea what happened! hOneSt!11"
Did your honest service manager also tell you the Borg Warner T56 is inferior to the Tremec?

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

Congratulations 🎊 👏
I've been around the car scene since the early 1980's.

Nice speculation. Always blaming the customers who didn't mod car or truck for a build quality issue that occured at one of GM's engine assembly plants.

He'd moved on and opened his own shop around in the early 2000's. I've known him for 20+ years. He always proved credible and honest.

440_Stroker

I've yet to witness an LT1 spin a bearing if stock. I have seen a few LS's do it when stock. I prefer the LS but the LT sounds better. I'd be proud to own an LT car again.

pdxmotorhead

IIRC,, the same vintage (early to later 90's) fords and mopar products had about the same amount of issues as a GM(lt or not) , regardless of engine model.
The early 90's and the advent of "gasohol" and a few other things all contributed. the oil at the time didn't deal well with the fuel. Cost cutting on assembly was rampant.

SS RRR

iTrader: (2)

I'm not sure where you were since the 80's, but you certainly were not around those who would modify and race their LT1's, which were also their daily drivers. It's not speculation when it did not happen as much as you claim. I don't know where you're getting your info regarding the spinning of bearings and the reverse cooling and how chronic of an issue they were straight from the factory, but you're wrong. Plain and simple.

It did happen, but was not a common occurrence as has been claimed. This is how vicious wives tales get started.

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

We clearly have different perspectives on the Gen 2 LT1. Never said ALL LT1's had bearing issues. They had a higher percentage of bearing issues and problems from poor machine work at factory due to worn tooling and inexperienced labor.

Yes, it did happen. 👏


BTW - do you still have your LT1? 396?

BALLSS

The gen 2 LT1 in its various forms (F, B & Y body) was in 100's of thousands (millions??) of cars 93-97. Did they suffer any higher percentage of spun bearings than previous or post versions of SBC...IDK or care. Maybe through the lens of a particular Service Mgr they did but that is a very small % of the total Gen 2 LT1/4 #'s so not really a valid perspective on the total number of LT1's of that era. FWIW the Service Mgr, Denny, at a dealership in Montebello, CA gladly did head/cam swaps and warrantied the work. They did 1:6 RR, valve springs and rear end gears for me when I started mods back then

Like others I raced and modded my 96 and did see carnage for several reasons from drag race use. Part of the game regardless of engine. Did see a LT1 spin cam bearings. It was a done in driveway, pulling radiator, stab cam, spin to 7k rpm boom thing. Lets say the install was not done in a sanitary engine build environment which likely "contributed" to the boom but more of a factor was spinning 7k rpm on 80+ k mi cam bearings that previously never saw much over 5500 rpm use

The gen 2 LT1 is considered the red headed stepchild of SBC but in its day was the **** and like any SBC could be modified to easily make over 400 hp NA for not huge $. Not saying it is or was the best ever motor made but very advanced for its time and can still hang with more modern SBC if modified well.

SS RRR

iTrader: (2)

LOL.. mkay. They had a "higher percentage" because people didn't know what they were doing when opening an engine. This has been covered many many many times before. Where were you?
You would think after the internet came out and about everyone who was anyone had a geocities website, there would have been writeups galore just like there were for about every other issue, but nope. I can't recall not one on how to avoid spinning bearings and bad tooling and bad reverse cooling and such. Did you experience several of these first hand or are you simply regurgitating what you've been told over the years?
Absolutely. Just drove it this morning.

LTX

What are your guys thoughts on your LT1’s with this EV (electric vehicle) market getting ready to pop off? I know my plans won’t change and I’ll still be investing in my LT1. I currently own 2 LT1 cars. 1000-1500hp end game for me. Then I’ll retire the LT1 & buy an EV.

I’m currently a technician for Tesla and drove a plaid model S today. Gave me a taste of what 1000hp feels like. They are fast almost nauseating but have already gotten use to it since I’ve driven about 15 of them in the 2 months I’ve been working here.

SS RRR

iTrader: (2)

Would love an EV for a 'goin' to town' rig, but the cost of the vehicle doesn't justify the means for my short commute.

BTW, drove that LT1 396 again today. What do I win?

440_Stroker

The probability of replacing bearings? jk

N20Dave

iTrader: (7)

I don’t know about all the bearing stuff but I like mine because I like the front end better. I like that the LT1 get’s bagged on so I can dish out a little crow (a bit more now.)

Granted mine’s pretty far from an LT1 but I still have a factory block

With a dry sump, SB2 heads Fueltech ecu and 98mm turbo I can accept that my opinion doesn’t count.