LS7 clutch, steel FW, Tick master in 2000 TA - installed!
04-15-2012, 09:39 AM
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Staging Lane
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LS7 clutch, steel FW, Tick master in 2000 TA - installed! Well, I gotta tell you.... I'm liking this combo in my car! Here's a little history and my observations...
Have had 3 clutches in her, I installed all. The first was around '03 when I broke the stocker after racing. Car lightly modded with intent to mod further. Got a Spec stage III. Big mistake! Nice clutch but NOT for my level of mods (bolt-on power adders), chattered like a bored housewife! Took all the fun out of driving. The second was a Ram (don't remember which one) but I think I learned my lesson and put in a milder one even with the mods I had then. (Thunderracing 224 cam, I think.. Hardened pushrods, higher ratio rockers, corvette intake, racetronics gaspump setup, SLP LT equal length spagetti headers, cats and Loudmouth exhaust, AIR and EGR delete, Ford #30 injectors, ported throttlebody from a guy here can't remember who but it was excellent work!, TR mail tune, Moser rear with 3.75 gears, stock T56 and driveshaft, stock heads, lowered fully adjustable suspension, BMR suspension bolt-ons and torque arm, early aftermarket master sold by TR which worked well until now, short shifter, KB subframe connectors, and ALMOST as much HP as a stock sport sedan off the showroom floor has today!!!) my buddies laugh at me for putting soooo much money into her and they just go buy it from the dealer.... They just don't get it....
The Ram studdered too... But not as bad so when it started slipping I started looking for a replacement and since I am reduced to a road driver for work and groceries kinda guy ( too many tickets, 3 reckless, 1 conviction) and I need my job, I decided that the LS7 setup looked to be a good choice for occasional romps and spirited driving. Honestly, a Cooper lined up on me during the first test drive and lit'em up out o the light! No warning or evil looks... I just laughed my *** off and checked my 6....
So after all that...
The Ram was never shimmed ( didn't know anything about this then) and I think the Spec came with a shim. I used the same billet FW with the Ram and had it turned. Probably why it didn't last, no shim and turned FW. Corvette clutch made sense, proven setup on a car with a bit more HP than me.
So the install went smoothly enough. I bled the Tick master when in the car, level, with the new slave propped up under the car lose. I used clamps to compress the slave and bled it by kneeling on the ground, pushing the clutch and then closing the bleeder when the peddle was on the floor. Pull peddle back up and repeat. I then had the thought that the extra volume on the slave was compressed so I took the clamps off and bled again without clamps. This was probably a mistake as two times I heard a pop and on the third pop I realized it was the slave popping with fluid pressure and nothing to press against. I also wondered why I was using lots of fluid??! Well, it was in a puddle on the floor behind the slave as I guess the popping was the clave overextending. I worried much at the possibility I broke it but after carefully inspection it appears OK. We'll see.... So I disconnected to slave and went on with the install
Next mountain... Couldn't find my clutch centering tools! And could not source one locally so I looked around and found a tapered rolling pin end that just fit inside the clutch disk with a couple winds of tape to snug it up. This setup and fading eyeballing did the trick! Lucky SOB, I am.... Trans slid right in! So be creative people!
Oh yea, decided to replace the rear main bearing and gasket since I have 100 thou on the clock..
That was the first mountain as the info was there but scattered around the I-net. The new style bearing is thinner than my 2000 original so when i pressed it into the backplate on my workbench it slid in with my finger pressure until flush not knowing if this is right i used the old bearing on top of the new and tapped it all the way down. There are two little tabs in the housing that caused some grief when trying to insert the plastic ring with the back of the seal facing rearward as they seemed to bind on the seal lip. The bearing comes with a white plastic circle which fits in the center and when you press the backplate back on the white insert holds the bearing inplace until slid onto the crank. That's the idea anyway. You think it would be on every post but it took a while to just by chance come across a post and a magazine article stating the rear of the bearing seal lip faces to the REAR. It is a bigger lip than the front lip which faces front ( by rear and front I mean looking at the back of the motor, rear lip of bearing toward front of motor). Well, the plastic insert was loose in the pack from shipping, I guess so getting it on the bearing and then having the bearing slide on the crank with the lip facing the correct way was a multi try task! They say put it on dry but the lip kept rolling forward when I shimmied it onto the crank. I finally just put some silicon spray lube on it and on the third try she went on! After going through all this I had a thought that the rear lip ends up behind the big end of the crank giving it the seal and all my trials were for nothing as the question came to mind that the redesigned seal with its shallower depth might all the lip to find its seat no matter shock way it was facing when the plate was put back on??!! I had the lip facing the back of the bearing and I checked this morning, no leaks under car (oil or clutch fluid) so I guess my extra effort was needed. Oh yea, remember to use the correct torque spec on the rear bearing housing bolts (the long ones that go through the pan) as all I could find was the oil pan spec of 18lbs ft and after breaking one of the bolts and removing the cover to get it out I came across the 106inch lbs spec! It was probably a godsend as I did not have the bearing installed correctly anyway (I think...rear lip thing) and the bolt had enough threads showing that I was able to get it with plyers and screw it out. But another couple hrs lost going to dealer, yada yada...
I get to the part of measuring the clutch forks to bell housing and slave to trans and get some varying measurement for several reasons..... I could not for the life of me figure out or find out how to remove the spring on the slave so I used a metal square straightedge to bottom the bearing and measure several million times to get the best measurement I could and still had varying measurements up to 1/8 difference on the slave to trans measurement. The bell housing to forks measurement varied less ( by 1/16). I figured it was slight differences in fork height and on the slave it was the slaves roller daring front that shifted side to side a little. I determined a 1/16 shim would work and just used it since I was alone here and Tick was not available when I called. I later found several posts indicating no shim is needed with my set-up!!??
So the tranny slid right in and I torqued the tranny bolts as my son shows up to help because I promised he could drive the car when we were done ( he hasn't driven it for the past 6 years since he took it joy riding when I was out of town and I found out bacause I know people, and one of them called me to tell me who he just talked to at the light !! Haha) so all was well until we went to tighten the top bolt of the stock torque arm mount ( the bolt that threads into the trans to the side of the output shaft) and found it was stripped! Little aluminum shaving in my fingers... After much searching I found one of the bolts from my new ES trans mount (the oem mount rubber was ripped) might fit the stripped hole. The stock bolt is a 10mm 1.5 I think and the Energy bolt was course 7/16. I have no 11 or 12mm bolts lying around and could not get one from the local stores. I did not want to take the trans back out so we lowered it as far as we could, pulled it gently with force
toward the passenger side of car and I used a 7/16's tap with wd40 and thread lube to carefully cut new threads. This was difficult wih the trans tunnel and fuel lines in the way but we got through it and the bolt fit perfectly! A different trans mount might be in my future... And the Energy Suspension trans mount was used With the preload plate spacer as per the instructions and I have no more vibration than before, my seat of the pants is there is actually LESS vibration.... But this is probably due to many little factors which summed up caused a degraded drivetrain when we started this. The rest of the reassembly went well and my driveshaft angle is at -2.5 to -3 degrees which I THINK was what I had before. I was worried that the ES trans mount would change things. I'll check my notes from the rear end install for the shaft angle.
Have had 3 clutches in her, I installed all. The first was around '03 when I broke the stocker after racing. Car lightly modded with intent to mod further. Got a Spec stage III. Big mistake! Nice clutch but NOT for my level of mods (bolt-on power adders), chattered like a bored housewife! Took all the fun out of driving. The second was a Ram (don't remember which one) but I think I learned my lesson and put in a milder one even with the mods I had then. (Thunderracing 224 cam, I think.. Hardened pushrods, higher ratio rockers, corvette intake, racetronics gaspump setup, SLP LT equal length spagetti headers, cats and Loudmouth exhaust, AIR and EGR delete, Ford #30 injectors, ported throttlebody from a guy here can't remember who but it was excellent work!, TR mail tune, Moser rear with 3.75 gears, stock T56 and driveshaft, stock heads, lowered fully adjustable suspension, BMR suspension bolt-ons and torque arm, early aftermarket master sold by TR which worked well until now, short shifter, KB subframe connectors, and ALMOST as much HP as a stock sport sedan off the showroom floor has today!!!) my buddies laugh at me for putting soooo much money into her and they just go buy it from the dealer.... They just don't get it....
The Ram studdered too... But not as bad so when it started slipping I started looking for a replacement and since I am reduced to a road driver for work and groceries kinda guy ( too many tickets, 3 reckless, 1 conviction) and I need my job, I decided that the LS7 setup looked to be a good choice for occasional romps and spirited driving. Honestly, a Cooper lined up on me during the first test drive and lit'em up out o the light! No warning or evil looks... I just laughed my *** off and checked my 6....
So after all that...
The Ram was never shimmed ( didn't know anything about this then) and I think the Spec came with a shim. I used the same billet FW with the Ram and had it turned. Probably why it didn't last, no shim and turned FW. Corvette clutch made sense, proven setup on a car with a bit more HP than me.
So the install went smoothly enough. I bled the Tick master when in the car, level, with the new slave propped up under the car lose. I used clamps to compress the slave and bled it by kneeling on the ground, pushing the clutch and then closing the bleeder when the peddle was on the floor. Pull peddle back up and repeat. I then had the thought that the extra volume on the slave was compressed so I took the clamps off and bled again without clamps. This was probably a mistake as two times I heard a pop and on the third pop I realized it was the slave popping with fluid pressure and nothing to press against. I also wondered why I was using lots of fluid??! Well, it was in a puddle on the floor behind the slave as I guess the popping was the clave overextending. I worried much at the possibility I broke it but after carefully inspection it appears OK. We'll see.... So I disconnected to slave and went on with the install
Next mountain... Couldn't find my clutch centering tools! And could not source one locally so I looked around and found a tapered rolling pin end that just fit inside the clutch disk with a couple winds of tape to snug it up. This setup and fading eyeballing did the trick! Lucky SOB, I am.... Trans slid right in! So be creative people!
Oh yea, decided to replace the rear main bearing and gasket since I have 100 thou on the clock..
That was the first mountain as the info was there but scattered around the I-net. The new style bearing is thinner than my 2000 original so when i pressed it into the backplate on my workbench it slid in with my finger pressure until flush not knowing if this is right i used the old bearing on top of the new and tapped it all the way down. There are two little tabs in the housing that caused some grief when trying to insert the plastic ring with the back of the seal facing rearward as they seemed to bind on the seal lip. The bearing comes with a white plastic circle which fits in the center and when you press the backplate back on the white insert holds the bearing inplace until slid onto the crank. That's the idea anyway. You think it would be on every post but it took a while to just by chance come across a post and a magazine article stating the rear of the bearing seal lip faces to the REAR. It is a bigger lip than the front lip which faces front ( by rear and front I mean looking at the back of the motor, rear lip of bearing toward front of motor). Well, the plastic insert was loose in the pack from shipping, I guess so getting it on the bearing and then having the bearing slide on the crank with the lip facing the correct way was a multi try task! They say put it on dry but the lip kept rolling forward when I shimmied it onto the crank. I finally just put some silicon spray lube on it and on the third try she went on! After going through all this I had a thought that the rear lip ends up behind the big end of the crank giving it the seal and all my trials were for nothing as the question came to mind that the redesigned seal with its shallower depth might all the lip to find its seat no matter shock way it was facing when the plate was put back on??!! I had the lip facing the back of the bearing and I checked this morning, no leaks under car (oil or clutch fluid) so I guess my extra effort was needed. Oh yea, remember to use the correct torque spec on the rear bearing housing bolts (the long ones that go through the pan) as all I could find was the oil pan spec of 18lbs ft and after breaking one of the bolts and removing the cover to get it out I came across the 106inch lbs spec! It was probably a godsend as I did not have the bearing installed correctly anyway (I think...rear lip thing) and the bolt had enough threads showing that I was able to get it with plyers and screw it out. But another couple hrs lost going to dealer, yada yada...
I get to the part of measuring the clutch forks to bell housing and slave to trans and get some varying measurement for several reasons..... I could not for the life of me figure out or find out how to remove the spring on the slave so I used a metal square straightedge to bottom the bearing and measure several million times to get the best measurement I could and still had varying measurements up to 1/8 difference on the slave to trans measurement. The bell housing to forks measurement varied less ( by 1/16). I figured it was slight differences in fork height and on the slave it was the slaves roller daring front that shifted side to side a little. I determined a 1/16 shim would work and just used it since I was alone here and Tick was not available when I called. I later found several posts indicating no shim is needed with my set-up!!??
So the tranny slid right in and I torqued the tranny bolts as my son shows up to help because I promised he could drive the car when we were done ( he hasn't driven it for the past 6 years since he took it joy riding when I was out of town and I found out bacause I know people, and one of them called me to tell me who he just talked to at the light !! Haha) so all was well until we went to tighten the top bolt of the stock torque arm mount ( the bolt that threads into the trans to the side of the output shaft) and found it was stripped! Little aluminum shaving in my fingers... After much searching I found one of the bolts from my new ES trans mount (the oem mount rubber was ripped) might fit the stripped hole. The stock bolt is a 10mm 1.5 I think and the Energy bolt was course 7/16. I have no 11 or 12mm bolts lying around and could not get one from the local stores. I did not want to take the trans back out so we lowered it as far as we could, pulled it gently with force
toward the passenger side of car and I used a 7/16's tap with wd40 and thread lube to carefully cut new threads. This was difficult wih the trans tunnel and fuel lines in the way but we got through it and the bolt fit perfectly! A different trans mount might be in my future... And the Energy Suspension trans mount was used With the preload plate spacer as per the instructions and I have no more vibration than before, my seat of the pants is there is actually LESS vibration.... But this is probably due to many little factors which summed up caused a degraded drivetrain when we started this. The rest of the reassembly went well and my driveshaft angle is at -2.5 to -3 degrees which I THINK was what I had before. I was worried that the ES trans mount would change things. I'll check my notes from the rear end install for the shaft angle. 
04-15-2012, 09:39 AM
#2
Staging Lane
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Join Date: Feb 2002
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PART II
We did all this with the car about 18 to 20 inches off the ground on 4 boxes I made many moons ago out of 2x10 wood.... Laying on our backs crawling around... I need a lift!
After pumping the clutch slowly when the car was back on the ground I felt it pressure-up firmer and decided to just start her up and check it. I did cut a hole in the trans tunnel where I thought the bleeder would be after putting the bellhousing on but forgot the engine was angled down since the tranny was out so my hole did not line-up with the bleeder. Plus, the bleeder is more inline with the notch cut out of the trans than the notch in the bell housing. I cut another hole higher and a little more toward the seat to better line-up with the bleeder. The hole ends up rearward of the gass peddle through the rubber and foam insert under the carpet. So measure twice and cut once and don't make the same mistake I did! After a drive the car today I will determine if I need to bleed again and the hole is a lesson learned in work smart and not hard when one man operations are the rule ( all the kids got their own lives now!)
So first impressions.... Not sure how far below the brake peddle the clutch should sit but it looks to be about 1/2 inch. When released the clutch engages very shortly after the peddle leaves the floor and after 20 minutes of driving it seems to have come up a little but this might be me getting used to it. The engagement of the clutch is smooth and i need to feather it a little probably just getting used to the feel but not anywhere near as grabby as the last two I had! This is what I wanted! And after 2 blasts to 90 with aggressive shifting ( no clutch dumps) the whole setup feels nice! The Tick master has a lighter feel than I expected with a little notch in its feel about halfway to the floor. Like the pressure required to push it changes slightly. This feeling is hard to describe but I will pay attention to it as the days pass... Won't do much driving with the gass prices as they are ( will be on the bike) but will monitor here for comments, questions and ribbing...
I consider myself more of a jack(***) of all trades, master of none and am not afraid to tear it up os PLEASE post to confirm or deny my experiences and impression so the next person will hopefully have less headaches..!
Happy installs peps!
We did all this with the car about 18 to 20 inches off the ground on 4 boxes I made many moons ago out of 2x10 wood.... Laying on our backs crawling around... I need a lift!
After pumping the clutch slowly when the car was back on the ground I felt it pressure-up firmer and decided to just start her up and check it. I did cut a hole in the trans tunnel where I thought the bleeder would be after putting the bellhousing on but forgot the engine was angled down since the tranny was out so my hole did not line-up with the bleeder. Plus, the bleeder is more inline with the notch cut out of the trans than the notch in the bell housing. I cut another hole higher and a little more toward the seat to better line-up with the bleeder. The hole ends up rearward of the gass peddle through the rubber and foam insert under the carpet. So measure twice and cut once and don't make the same mistake I did! After a drive the car today I will determine if I need to bleed again and the hole is a lesson learned in work smart and not hard when one man operations are the rule ( all the kids got their own lives now!)
So first impressions.... Not sure how far below the brake peddle the clutch should sit but it looks to be about 1/2 inch. When released the clutch engages very shortly after the peddle leaves the floor and after 20 minutes of driving it seems to have come up a little but this might be me getting used to it. The engagement of the clutch is smooth and i need to feather it a little probably just getting used to the feel but not anywhere near as grabby as the last two I had! This is what I wanted! And after 2 blasts to 90 with aggressive shifting ( no clutch dumps) the whole setup feels nice! The Tick master has a lighter feel than I expected with a little notch in its feel about halfway to the floor. Like the pressure required to push it changes slightly. This feeling is hard to describe but I will pay attention to it as the days pass... Won't do much driving with the gass prices as they are ( will be on the bike) but will monitor here for comments, questions and ribbing...
I consider myself more of a jack(***) of all trades, master of none and am not afraid to tear it up os PLEASE post to confirm or deny my experiences and impression so the next person will hopefully have less headaches..!
Happy installs peps!
04-15-2012, 10:01 AM
#3
Staging Lane
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PS - I don't spell worth a damn and the iPhone I used to write this isn't the best input device so apologies...
And sorry so long... Just hope it helps someone...!
And sorry so long... Just hope it helps someone...!
