Paz

This is a bit of a long post but want to get the full story out, I've had an RXT fail on me as per the below pics, completely wiped out the outer clutch plate hub spline and inner clutch plate hub spline wasn't far behind (damaging my input shaft), why did it do it as McLeod won't give me any answers??

I contacted McLeod via email (I'm in Australia) and they told me to send the clutch plates back to them (after doing appropriate McLeod forms etc) and that the hubs would be Rockwell tested and if found to be soft they would be fixed under warranty.

Clutch plates were sent (at my cost) via post, i actually had to contact McLeod through social media (FB) to find out that the plates had finally made it to them (as the tracking system for the post had stopped working correctly and my emails again went unanswered), I was told that the plates had arrived and the hubs were being replaced, i asked were they soft and advised that the technician who does the Rockwell testing will get to them and results supplied.

Plates were finally done and i was supplied tracking info for their return, i again asked if the old hubs were tested which again the reply was no, this is when i asked what is McLeod going to do for me as i believed it was their product that was faulty costing me an input shaft and it's install, reinstall of gearbox etc etc, McLeod's answer was their standard "Warranty-Limited" cut and pasted.

Again i did not hear anything for some time (10 days) regarding the hardness test so again i emailed them only to find out that the testing still was not done and the technician who does the testing was busy but would eventually get to them and results supplied to me, this was about when i was advised to email the Director of Business as the person i had been emailing had done as much as they could.

I emailed the Director and he replied asking me to give him a day or so to come up to speed, this i agreed with, 2 days later he emailed me again saying testing still was not completed and could he have another day to which i agreed, this was over a week ago now and i still have not heard a thing hence my post here!

So why do i want to know why it failed even though i have my plates back fitted with new hubs at no cost except shipping of my plates?

Well as i mentioned it's damaged my input shaft (which btw i was told by McLeod was okay to use, normal wear!), for my particular Tremec TR6060 i had a hells own time of getting a replacement here in Aus, luckily i know a guy who works at Holden who eventually found me one in the states at a cost of $600, to get the shaft properly fitted i need to travel 430 miles one way to a Tremec specialist (who i am confident in fitting it correctly), this will cost me about $1000 to $1500 by the time I'm done then I've got to get the box fitted again not to mention the month or more the cars been off the road so it's cost me a fair amount, I really don't want to do it all again if the clutch fails again!!

Yes i I'm fully aware of McLeod's warranty but as i stated i firmly believe it was their products failure that has done the damage, car is a 6 speed single turbo 6L SS sedan, estimated 750hp at the flywheel (663hp at the rear wheels) so under their 1000hp as advertised for the RXT, the clutch has less than 5000 miles on it and was strictly fitted and broken in as per McLeods instructions, it's never been raced, never abused hell i haven't even dumped the clutch in the thing yet as I'm still having a few tuning issued!!

stevieturbo

I think there was a thread here a few months back with a similar problem ?

You'll be needing a new input shaft there too I'd say.

TBH, if I was to buy another clutch, I'd probably just buy one of the ACT options. My last one was great before I decided I needed to change for some reason I'm still baffled about lol ( Well to be fair, the twin organic started slipping )

Not really sure why they arent as common on here, because they are very good quality and pretty damn cheap compared to some.

Although as you're in Aussie land, there are Aussie based clutches too. I'm currently using one, although that itself has been a journey...

Paz

Haven't seen that thread but I'll have a search, be interesting to see what their outcome was, mine makes three McLeods that have done the exact same thing that i now know of!

Yep def need a new input shaft, actually just back from my just under 900 mile round trip from having it fitted

Up till this point I've been pretty happy with the clutches performance, sadly McLeods customer service has let it down.

stevieturbo

https://ls1tech.com/forums/manual-tr...put-shaft.html

Paz

Ahh yep that's one that i know of, did exactly same as mine and took out input shaft as well.

stevieturbo

Certainly a very strange thing to happen !

Paz

Thought I'd update you all briefly on the fun I've had since my first post, be simpler in point form cause it's even confusing me!

-Was told as above hubs would be tested within the next day and results supplied.
-Waited 2 weeks and had enough and emailed McLeod to send my hubs back so i could get them tested and some answers maybe.
-Was told they were tested and "within called out spec" but McLeod now want to give me a new upgraded hub clutch kit or a rebuild certificate for my old clutch.
-Was told if i go new kit that i should get my factory input shaft Rockwell tested.
-I asked a few questions about this new replacement kit, what's so different about it, is it just the hubs are higher Rockwell, is the spline the same driven width (as i believe this is the main issue with the McLeod kits), what Rockwell does my factory input shaft need to be for the special hubs since you suggested i get it tested, if the old hubs were fine in spec why did your hubs fail etc etc?
-Asked what specs the replacement hubs are that were fitted to my old clutch discs now fitted back into car (as at that time was all McLeod was going to do), was told they have no idea (can I say lack of confidence in a product now?).
-Answer came back that it was in fact my input shaft was the reason clutch failed as it was soft (funny how it was irreparably damaged but McLeod hubs were the ones stripped out)?
-Asked why this was and was given a spiel about "Co-Efficient of Friction"and that's why my input shaft failed (again it wasn't totally stripped), i sent this answer i received off to a few auto technicians whom are fairly knowledgeable in their field and their responses was copious amounts of laughter!
-Asked a few more questions about new kit and was given pretty much an ultimatum of either new kit or rebuild certificate as they had another trade show coming up and wanted it sorted before this.
-Said i would take new kit as honestly was my last resort.
-Asked again what Rockwell my input shaft needed to be when i get it tested as i was told to do it before fitting new kit, no answer
-Asked for old hubs back so i could get them tested, least this would give me some idea when i get new kit hubs tested and input shaft tested as no answer (as above) on input Rockwell required, was told NO as i was getting a new kit and that more then covers old hubs (but gives me no answers).
-Another week plus and another email to McLeod, finally get an email from Fedex something was coming.
-Again another email to McLeod regarding the input Rockwell requirement as they stated and was told to contact transmission manufacturer now (WTF, you told me it wasn't hard enough and get it tested?).
-Email from Fedex, another $183 of import duties i need to pay to get my replacement clutch that should have been free "for my trouble"!
-New kit finally arrives and the hubs have even a narrower driven width in the spline then the old hubs, great!

Honestly, this is not all of it but you get the idea, i shall never deal with this company again and shall never recommend the product to anyone purely on the lack of backup they give for their product, absolute joke!

stevieturbo

What width are the splines ?

The splines on the old ACT clutch I used were pretty thin, and I'd also say quite loose on the input shaft, but they never gave any issues.

The splines on my current triple are also quite thin...but then they kinda have to be. I think only around 9-10mm.

That said, I dont think the splines on my ACT twin were any thicker, even though they could have been.

As for import duties...I feel your pain. I get robbed every ******* time here, although the replacement should have been listed as a warranty replacement part at no cost. Problem with this though, is often you need to have a tracked shipment where you sent the old part to them for warranty, so they can monitor the outbound part, and then inbound return. At least that's how it's supposed to work here. A total ******* ballache.

Paz

The original (failed) spline width i measured at about 9mm, the replacement hubs fitted in old clutch plates that were sent back were about 10mm, the new ones that are supposed to be super dooper harder are about 6 to 7mm but this is only from looking at them, haven't had a chance to measure them with verniers but def look smaller.

Indecently, one of the guys who i know in the industry fitted a 6406607M McLeod twin kit just a week ago, it had a measured 19mm per disc spline width, this was one of the questions i asked McLeod about (why) and was not answered but given the ultimatum (or was it the laughable co-efficient answer, confusing myself haha).

I honestly believe this is the issue with this failure, the factory spline is about 25mm from memory, so more horsepower supposedly to be driven through less spline contact area, doesn't make sense does it?

stevieturbo

Pic of one of the ACT discs at the very bottom, you can see they're not that wide. My current triple is pretty similar thickness

Obviously when you go multiplate, this part has to be thin in order to have the number of discs. Although with a twin, you would have a lot more room than a triple for each disc, and a single a lot more than a twin.

It does seem that despite the small size...when made right it doesnt seem to need a huge thickness to do the job. I cant see how any twin disc could have 25mm spline engagement per disc....there simply isnt the room. Even 19mm per discs seems pretty huge.

I did have another twin in briefly, but I'd guess at those only being around 15mm each max. But dont recall measuring them

Other than being cheapskates, I dont get why they dont make clutches with a large single centre hub, onto which the friction discs then engage, the likes of some Exedy, OSG etc do and I mentioned some of the RPS carbon setups do.
That should be best of both worlds.
Lots of spline engagement on the input shaft, but also light and free floating friction discs on the outside. And it cant be for any nonsense cost reasons as having bought some OSG centre hubs, they are not expensive at all.

ie this.



They even offer a sprung hub ( twin )



And with such a design, you'll never have to worry about the rivets holding the centre hub to the plate coming loose or giving issues, as happened me years ago with the Tex Exoskell triple.

stevieturbo

For comparison...but obviously there are 3 discs now, but similar width. Given the distance apart the discs are, you cant really make them any wider. I actually had to thin down one of the discs I was supplied.

And same brand showing one disc of their twin setup. A little wider, but not massively.

Paz

Their splines def look to be wider then in this McLeod kit.

Attached is not a very good pic of my original kit when new, second of the new super dooper replacement and third is the kit that the mate fitted, def differences in spline width in all three!

Fully aware that they cannot be too wide but dam, have a look at the pics of mine and there is def room for improvement, like you said, if it was done this way because it is cheaper just how much savings does it really boil down to for manufacturing?

I'm more pissed that the blame has been passed around from pillar to post, instead of just standing up from the get go and saying "yep our product has an issue and we'll help you sort it out" instead they've blamed everything but just not to own the issue, very poor form.

stevieturbo

Wow...those top two pics really do look thin. Even thinner than teh ACT ones I had concerns about, although they always worked fine

Lower looks more acceptable.

Given what happened yours previously...I would still have huge concerns there !

Sell it on while it's still new maybe ?

Paz

Yep i have huge concerns considering the cost that goes along with it if the newly fitted hubs were to go again (getting a new input fitted, if i can find one again that is etc etc), if i go to the expense of getting old clutch pulled and fitting newly sent clutch is it going to do the same as well, who knows what the correct way to go is?

Car has only been driven a couple of times since re-install and at that nursed, honestly lost all confidence in the current setup.

I tried as hard as i could to work with McLeod and get a mutually satisfying outcome but sadly they just don't care!

Guess i could sell it but I'm a bit old school, really don't want to palm my issues off to someone else!

rsmith

I had the same problems on my RXT setup. The problem was the pilot bearing / bushing was not engaguing the front drive alignment nub. It needs to be measured & put together without clutch parts to observe it has proper engagement. I had exact same wear on main drive (had to replace it) and clutch discs ( Got ahold of Mcleod & they said to send clutch discs in & they could replace the splines on my discs.) I did that & cost was not near cost of new discs & it works great W/O any prolems whatever & no clutch chatter. There are instructions of how to setup where pilot bearing needs to be measured off bellhousing & to me they were confusing. The best way is to eyeball setup W/O clutch parts. Hope this helps people on this forum,

stevieturbo

Not following what you're saying ?

The pilot bush in no shape or form should touch any part of the clutch. It should engage with the nose of the input shaft only...and if it wasnt, you have a major trans/bellhousing issue !

Paz

Not following either sorry mate.

My pilot bearing was never touched when the McLeod clutch was first installed, guaranteed to be in same spot the factory fitted it as the car only had 23000 miles on it and had never been apart, ie all parts are factory fitted, gearbox, bellhousing etc so apart from clutch all is/was stock.

Regarding the thrust bearing/slave, i spent some time measuring and double checking that it all met supplied specs from McLeod for engagement etc.

When i refitted my old discs (with new hubs that McLeod supplied a few months ago) i fitted new pilot bearing, slave/thrust as i had them because i thought that was the problem initially before pulling box out to find the stripped hubs (although my old parts were fine).

Car has been driven no more than 5 times in the last three months, still unsure of the setup sadly!

rsmith

I still say it tore up because there was no engagement of front shaft pilot stub into pilot bushing / bearing. It needs to be put together without clutch parts in to verify it has proper engagement. There are measuring specs for measuring how far the pilot bearing is placed into crankshaft for different setups and they are somewhat confusing. Some of these bushings/bearings fit flush & some of them go in too far if bottomed out. I went thru it all & had it wrong and redid all my work to correct it. I forget the differences on the parts at that cause this but do know it has to be right.

Paz

Yep i get what you mean now mate.

Unfortunately i do not think this is the case with mine, all stock parts except actual flywheel and clutch kit so everything was bolted up as per it should be.

Just took a pic of my old input shaft, can clearly see where the pilot has been running along with the two plates, plenty of engagement.

stevieturbo

I still dont get how anyone could possibly place the spigot bearing anywhere it would not marry up with the input shaft ?

That has absolutely nothing to do with the clutch either. That's entirely a bellhousing/box/install matter for the person doing it. There would need to be a bizarre mismatch of parts used for it to even be possible or some stupidity.