94 Supra with 421 stroker smallblock swap
12-21-2011, 05:22 PM
#61
TECH Senior Member
12-21-2011, 05:36 PM
#63
Teching In
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
12-21-2011, 06:58 PM
#65
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Please use to learn multi-quote.
why? whats the point? too hard to read?
What have you seen? That is typical (if not higher than normal) weight.
Not sure how it works in your world, but in our SBC world aftermarket stuff is usually lighter than factory, so a "built motor" is often lighter than stock...
internet or anything could help you understand some stuff.
Actually everything to do with the 2JZ, that is an engine swap forum, the 2JZ is a relatively common swap (or at least pondered on and then dropped for a lighter/smaller/cheaper/simpler LSx
)
wow, amazing considering the lsx has been swapped into everything including powerwheels lol. maybe because its so widely produced and cheap to buy and every redneck under the sun has shoved it into everything with at least 1 wheel on it. you are right, it's obviously a quality place to learn about something that didn't come in any of the cars they are transplanting it into.. correct, wow?
LMAO...
I think you are confusing "advanced" with factory over built, and simple (yet ridiculously easy to get power out of) with "shitty".
We all know the 2JZ can take a ton of peak power with stock internals (yippie!) but what does that really matter? You have to mod everything else, you still have to spend big money, so who cares?
And GM never set out to create an "advanced" engine when making the SBC, its beauty is in its simplicity (and low mass and weight with an aluminum block). You can buy off the shelf stuff from summit, install it in your garage yourself and make stupid power on 87 pump gas.
Im not saying either is better, they are very different engines, but to call the SBC shitty is plain dumb.
how "advanced" do you want to get? typically a more advanced engine is one that makes power more efficiently. in fact, without even talking about horsepower per liter, the 2j even gets a hell of a lot better gas mileage too compared to that old 70s v8..... btw. big money on what? you can spend 5k and make more than that piece of **** in this supra does, i know you guys don't really know much about other engines except for the LSX platform, but everyone tries this argument when they see people talking about spending 100k on a supra and see something like 800 hp and think that "wow, you have to spend a lot on it to make power!" what don't you understand about intake,exhaust, boost controller, intercooler, hell you dont even need a turbo kit, you can do it the cheap way and throw a 50 shot on it for 200 bucks and make that power just as easy.
fyi, i was calling the SBC from the 70s COMPARED to using the stock 2j in THAT CAR, shitty. don't confuse my argument
Even if it makes as much power (with a better powerband) and comes in around the same weight, Id say thats not too bad for an "old motor"
no, its not bad for an old motor, but it makes no sense to claim that it is just as good when its obviously not even you guys see it and more than enough members here know that the 2j is a far better option for what the OP was going for (he probably just didn't know anything about building something with less than 8 cylinders, its ok)
Did you really just... hp/l really?....
You can buy a cheap RC car today that makes more HP/L than a 2JZ, does that mean the RC engine is more advanced, and the 2JZ is **** in comparison? HP/L is ricer math at its finest, peak HP not being useful in many cases (power under the curve is what matters) and displacement shows nothing, its weight and size that matter.
Out of two engines that both make the same power, would you rather have a heavier one with less displacement, or a lighter one with more displacement? One makes more hp/l, the other make more hp/weight.
fyi, the hp per liter comes with a grand total of more hp as well. not just an rc car... congrats, you can say a motorcycle engine would be far superior too for hp/liter... you have no comprehension ability, just the ability to spout of **** you have heard before right?
Its not about who did what "right", its about a compact, reliable engine that can make gobs of power and torque very easily. This is not to say the 2JZ can't, so don't give yourself an ulcer just yet.
Hopefully you don't happen to stumble upon all the other SBC/LSx swapped Supras on the interwebs, you'll surely have a heart attack...
definately have a heart attack... maybe i just had one when i saw the price, the "cost of the build" and the owners pride about how great of an improvement he made over the stock engine and trans... which were better in the first place. good reason why you don't see a mkiii supra engine in a mkiv supra..
why? whats the point? too hard to read?
What have you seen? That is typical (if not higher than normal) weight.
Not sure how it works in your world, but in our SBC world aftermarket stuff is usually lighter than factory, so a "built motor" is often lighter than stock...
Mass
The main reason to use a cast piston is its efficient mass. It is lightweight and heat flows predictably throughout its construction. Due to its high silicon content it is easily molded and each part of the piston can be shaped to a specific thickness. The forged piston is heavier than a cast piston and its alloy is not as malleable. A forged piston is not very stable dimensionally and the rate at which it expands is not easily controlled. Even if a forged piston is modified to be similar to a cast piston, it will still retain more mass than a cast piston and thus use its mass less efficiently.
Read more: Forged Pistons Vs. Cast | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/about_5325625_fo...#ixzz1hDiNVhQi
The main reason to use a cast piston is its efficient mass. It is lightweight and heat flows predictably throughout its construction. Due to its high silicon content it is easily molded and each part of the piston can be shaped to a specific thickness. The forged piston is heavier than a cast piston and its alloy is not as malleable. A forged piston is not very stable dimensionally and the rate at which it expands is not easily controlled. Even if a forged piston is modified to be similar to a cast piston, it will still retain more mass than a cast piston and thus use its mass less efficiently.
Read more: Forged Pistons Vs. Cast | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/about_5325625_fo...#ixzz1hDiNVhQi
Actually everything to do with the 2JZ, that is an engine swap forum, the 2JZ is a relatively common swap (or at least pondered on and then dropped for a lighter/smaller/cheaper/simpler LSx
)wow, amazing considering the lsx has been swapped into everything including powerwheels lol. maybe because its so widely produced and cheap to buy and every redneck under the sun has shoved it into everything with at least 1 wheel on it. you are right, it's obviously a quality place to learn about something that didn't come in any of the cars they are transplanting it into.. correct, wow?
LMAO...
I think you are confusing "advanced" with factory over built, and simple (yet ridiculously easy to get power out of) with "shitty".
We all know the 2JZ can take a ton of peak power with stock internals (yippie!) but what does that really matter? You have to mod everything else, you still have to spend big money, so who cares?
And GM never set out to create an "advanced" engine when making the SBC, its beauty is in its simplicity (and low mass and weight with an aluminum block). You can buy off the shelf stuff from summit, install it in your garage yourself and make stupid power on 87 pump gas.
Im not saying either is better, they are very different engines, but to call the SBC shitty is plain dumb.
how "advanced" do you want to get? typically a more advanced engine is one that makes power more efficiently. in fact, without even talking about horsepower per liter, the 2j even gets a hell of a lot better gas mileage too compared to that old 70s v8..... btw. big money on what? you can spend 5k and make more than that piece of **** in this supra does, i know you guys don't really know much about other engines except for the LSX platform, but everyone tries this argument when they see people talking about spending 100k on a supra and see something like 800 hp and think that "wow, you have to spend a lot on it to make power!" what don't you understand about intake,exhaust, boost controller, intercooler, hell you dont even need a turbo kit, you can do it the cheap way and throw a 50 shot on it for 200 bucks and make that power just as easy.
fyi, i was calling the SBC from the 70s COMPARED to using the stock 2j in THAT CAR, shitty. don't confuse my argument
Even if it makes as much power (with a better powerband) and comes in around the same weight, Id say thats not too bad for an "old motor"
no, its not bad for an old motor, but it makes no sense to claim that it is just as good when its obviously not even you guys see it and more than enough members here know that the 2j is a far better option for what the OP was going for (he probably just didn't know anything about building something with less than 8 cylinders, its ok)
Did you really just... hp/l really?....
You can buy a cheap RC car today that makes more HP/L than a 2JZ, does that mean the RC engine is more advanced, and the 2JZ is **** in comparison? HP/L is ricer math at its finest, peak HP not being useful in many cases (power under the curve is what matters) and displacement shows nothing, its weight and size that matter.
Out of two engines that both make the same power, would you rather have a heavier one with less displacement, or a lighter one with more displacement? One makes more hp/l, the other make more hp/weight.
fyi, the hp per liter comes with a grand total of more hp as well. not just an rc car... congrats, you can say a motorcycle engine would be far superior too for hp/liter... you have no comprehension ability, just the ability to spout of **** you have heard before right?
Its not about who did what "right", its about a compact, reliable engine that can make gobs of power and torque very easily. This is not to say the 2JZ can't, so don't give yourself an ulcer just yet.
Hopefully you don't happen to stumble upon all the other SBC/LSx swapped Supras on the interwebs, you'll surely have a heart attack...
definately have a heart attack... maybe i just had one when i saw the price, the "cost of the build" and the owners pride about how great of an improvement he made over the stock engine and trans... which were better in the first place. good reason why you don't see a mkiii supra engine in a mkiv supra..
what multiquote?
12-21-2011, 08:08 PM
#68
On The Tree
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Waffle Land
Posts: 119
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Its not about who did what "right", its about a compact, reliable engine that can make gobs of power and torque very easily. This is not to say the 2JZ can't, so don't give yourself an ulcer just yet.
Hopefully you don't happen to stumble upon all the other SBC/LSx swapped Supras on the interwebs, you'll surely have a heart attack...
Hopefully you don't happen to stumble upon all the other SBC/LSx swapped Supras on the interwebs, you'll surely have a heart attack...
12-21-2011, 08:11 PM
#69
On The Tree
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Waffle Land
Posts: 119
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dude look at my join date and posts kiddo. It's not like I just got here. And you are correct LS motors are technically SBCs, the context I was referring to were the old School, carburated SBCs.
12-21-2011, 08:12 PM
#70
TECH Senior Member
More of a pain to copy/paste rather then just hit "quote" to capture all of your babbling nonsense all at once, this isn't rocket science.
Seems like you need to do some digging yourself:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/3019859-post5.html
All their 2JZ info is copied directly from Supra forums, or first hand experience with the engine (like having it on a scale).
You can't be serious...
Compare the two engines a car with the same weight and gearing and you will see damn near the same gas mileage. A lowly 93 LT1 6 speed Corvette (OMG SBC based old tachnologeeee) gets better gas mileage than a 6 speed 93 TT Supra. Does this mean the engine is more efficient, or the gearing is better for gas mileage?
Pot meet kettle...
So bolt ons and a 50 shot get you 800hp huh?
Just as good engine? Yes, if not better. Just as "good" for that car, arguably no, because of added complexity of putting the engine in and getting everything to work properly.
How do you know what the OP was going for? How do you know that he didn't get tired of the turbo lag, or exhaust note, or lack of torque compared to a bigger displaced V8?
Not saying that I would have done the swap either, but I wouldn't buy a Supra either. (although if I did Id be SO tempted to put an LSx in it just to see the Supra fanboys like yourself rage out).
Not if comparing two different engines like you were doing, saying one is "better" because it has more hp/l.
So you have no argument for hp/l then huh? Just some ricer math to try and make the 2JZ look better?
care to post the thread?
internet or anything could help you understand some stuff.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/3019859-post5.html
wow, amazing considering the lsx has been swapped into everything including powerwheels lol. maybe because its so widely produced and cheap to buy and every redneck under the sun has shoved it into everything with at least 1 wheel on it. you are right, it's obviously a quality place to learn about something that didn't come in any of the cars they are transplanting it into.. correct, wow?
how "advanced" do you want to get? typically a more advanced engine is one that makes power more efficiently. in fact, without even talking about horsepower per liter, the 2j even gets a hell of a lot better gas mileage too compared to that old 70s v8.....
Compare the two engines a car with the same weight and gearing and you will see damn near the same gas mileage. A lowly 93 LT1 6 speed Corvette (OMG SBC based old tachnologeeee) gets better gas mileage than a 6 speed 93 TT Supra. Does this mean the engine is more efficient, or the gearing is better for gas mileage?
btw. big money on what? you can spend 5k and make more than that piece of **** in this supra does, i know you guys don't really know much about other engines except for the LSX platform
, but everyone tries this argument when they see people talking about spending 100k on a supra and see something like 800 hp(and them running 12s) and think that "wow, you have to spend a lot on it to make power!" what don't you understand about intake,exhaust, boost controller, intercooler, hell you dont even need a turbo kit, you can do it the cheap way and throw a 50 shot on it for 200 bucks and make that power just as easy.
no, its not bad for an old motor, but it makes no sense to claim that it is just as good when its obviously not even you guys see it and more than enough members here know that the 2j is a far better option for what the OP was going for (he probably just didn't know anything about building something with less than 8 cylinders, its ok)
How do you know what the OP was going for? How do you know that he didn't get tired of the turbo lag, or exhaust note, or lack of torque compared to a bigger displaced V8?
Not saying that I would have done the swap either, but I wouldn't buy a Supra either. (although if I did Id be SO tempted to put an LSx in it just to see the Supra fanboys like yourself rage out).
fyi, the hp per liter comes with a grand total of more hp as well. not just an rc car...
congrats, you can say a motorcycle engine would be far superior too for hp/liter... you have no comprehension ability, just the ability to spout of **** you have heard before right?
definately have a heart attack... maybe i just had one when i saw the price, the "cost of the build" and the owners pride about how great of an improvement he made over the stock engine and trans... which were better in the first place. good reason why you don't see a mkiii supra engine in a mkiv supra..
12-21-2011, 08:22 PM
#71
On The Tree
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Waffle Land
Posts: 119
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
More of a pain to copy/paste rather then just hit "quote" to capture all of your babbling nonsense all at once, this isn't rocket science.
Seems like you need to do some digging yourself:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/3019859-post5.html
All their 2JZ info is copied directly from Supra forums, or first hand experience with the engine (like having it on a scale).
You can't be serious...
Compare the two engines a car with the same weight and gearing and you will see damn near the same gas mileage. A lowly 93 LT1 6 speed Corvette (OMG SBC based old tachnologeeee) gets better gas mileage than a 6 speed 93 TT Supra. Does this mean the engine is more efficient, or the gearing is better for gas mileage?
Seems like you need to do some digging yourself:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/3019859-post5.html
All their 2JZ info is copied directly from Supra forums, or first hand experience with the engine (like having it on a scale).
You can't be serious...
Compare the two engines a car with the same weight and gearing and you will see damn near the same gas mileage. A lowly 93 LT1 6 speed Corvette (OMG SBC based old tachnologeeee) gets better gas mileage than a 6 speed 93 TT Supra. Does this mean the engine is more efficient, or the gearing is better for gas mileage?
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/9637.shtml
http://www.carsdirect.com/1993/toyota/supra/specs
LOL 1 mpg on the highway, really? And even the sticker on the MKIVs read 24 highway. Thats what the sticker on my Supra had when I purchased it from the last owner
But on an honest note, OP is going to have a really hard time selling it without parting it out, because:
A) Its a salvage title
b) Its a swap (swaps in general are hard sales, even generally approved ones like LS1 RX7's)
c) And there are very few fans of the combination of parts ( its easy to find fans of the old school SBC and fans of the supra but not many fans of the overall combination that would buy)
Also dude your comment on 800hp Supras running 12's is so 90's. Welcome to 2011.
Last edited by TheHitman; 12-21-2011 at 08:36 PM.
12-21-2011, 08:39 PM
#72
What? GM has produced over 100 million small blocks. 100 million!! They're still in production over 65 years later!!!!!!!!!
The 2JZ is a one trick pony - you can put a big turbo on it and make big power, and that's it. You can almost DOUBLE the displacement of a SBC. You can build a SBC from a 100hp to over 3000hp. It works naturally aspirated, or with nitrous, or supercharged, or turbocharged, or any combination of those. It's the most versatile and ubitquitous engine the world has ever seen, and probably ever will. Can the 2JZ make over 1000hp naturally aspirated? Can it make over 3000hp in any form? Can it turn over 12500rpm? The SBC accomplished all of that LONG before your precious little engine did.
12-21-2011, 08:52 PM
#73
On The Tree
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Waffle Land
Posts: 119
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The SBC has been continually updated since it's introduction in 1955. You obviously have no clue what the **** you're talking about. GM hasn't put this "exact style" as you call it in a car for a long time. Yet they still sell more of this "exact style" engine per year than Toyota sold Supras period.
The 2JZ is a one trick pony - you can put a big turbo on it and make big power, and that's it. You can almost DOUBLE the displacement of a SBC. You can build a SBC from a 100hp to over 3000hp. It works naturally aspirated, or with nitrous, or supercharged, or turbocharged, or any combination of those. It's the most versatile and ubitquitous engine the world has ever seen, and probably ever will. Can the 2JZ make over 1000hp naturally aspirated? Can it make over 3000hp in any form? Can it turn over 12500rpm? The SBC accomplished all of that LONG before your precious little engine did.
The 2JZ is a one trick pony - you can put a big turbo on it and make big power, and that's it. You can almost DOUBLE the displacement of a SBC. You can build a SBC from a 100hp to over 3000hp. It works naturally aspirated, or with nitrous, or supercharged, or turbocharged, or any combination of those. It's the most versatile and ubitquitous engine the world has ever seen, and probably ever will. Can the 2JZ make over 1000hp naturally aspirated? Can it make over 3000hp in any form? Can it turn over 12500rpm? The SBC accomplished all of that LONG before your precious little engine did.
Comparing to such a broad range anyway is stupid at best.
12-21-2011, 09:12 PM
#76
On The Tree
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Waffle Land
Posts: 119
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Also I visit tech frequently to educate myself about Small blocks including the one I own.
12-21-2011, 09:22 PM
#78
Furthermore, a 421 is based upon a 400. That carbed 421 would put most LSx stuff to shame. Carbureted SBCs have done alot more than the LSx probably ever will. You guys need to understand that 421 isn't a low compression smogger from the 70s.
12-21-2011, 09:28 PM
#79
On The Tree
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Waffle Land
Posts: 119
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No, it's a SBC, not a 350. A 350 is a small block, but a small block isn't necessarily a 350. Stop using the 350 term to describe the SBC! Furthermore, a 421 is based upon a 400. That carbed 421 would put most LSx stuff to shame. Carbureted SBCs have done alot more than the LSx probably ever will. You guys need to understand that 421 isn't a low compression smogger from the 70s.
Furthermore, a 421 is based upon a 400. That carbed 421 would put most LSx stuff to shame. Carbureted SBCs have done alot more than the LSx probably ever will. You guys need to understand that 421 isn't a low compression smogger from the 70s.