BeastBuster

iTrader: (1)

Hey all,

Here is the link for the original thread.

https://ls1tech.com/forums/parts-cla...wk-wheels.html

I have been waiting a long time to be able to tell this story. It has been a long time since the incident but I had not “earned the right” to post my story since I wasn’t a prominent member. Well now I can finally put this out there for people to see what 223Hawk did to me.

I am sure some of you know 223Hawk, he seems to be a prominent member here. Well, he was selling his Firehawk wheels for $650. I looked through the pictures and asked him some questions. He seemed like a nice guy so I ended up buying them. In his thread he talks about the wheels being in “great shape.”

They show up in the mail (in a timely matter) and they looked good to me. I was pleased with my purchase and left 223Hawk some positive feedback. I didn’t have the money to buy tires right away as I spent almost all my cash on the wheels. I am just a 20 year old guy and was working part time for that money. I am sure many of you know what that is like. So I put the wheels back in their boxes and saved up until I could buy tires.

Around two months later, the day finally came that I could afford to buy tires. I took my car down to Discount Tire and picked out the tires I wanted. I waited around for a couple hours before they got around to my car. They take the wheels to the machine to balance them and the employee stopped and called me over. He informed me that the wheel he was trying to balance was bent. He said he would do his best to balance it. He ended up calling me back over there two more times! 3 of the 4 wheels were bent! They said that 2 of them were really bad. They described the damage as most likely being caused by careless driving over potholes at high speeds. They also told me that there was NO chance the previous owner had no idea they were bent.

I was extremely frustrated but decided to give 223Hawk the benefit of the doubt. So I sent him a message to let him know they were bent and told him that I believed some sort of action should be taken. He seemed to be in denial and told me how the place that he had the tires balanced never told him they were bent.

I told him I would be willing to get documentation from Discount if he did not want to take my word for it and that I would be looking to get some quotes for wheel repair. He responded by saying that documentation would not be necessary. He went on to say that he believed it was caused in shipping and told me that I should contact UPS. Well despite the fact that it is nearly impossible that the wheels were bent in shipping, it is the responsibility of the seller to sort out shipping problems. But that is not really a big deal since these just simply were not damaged during shipping. He also said that simply because it had been 2 months, he felt he should accept no responsibility. He then proceeded to criticize me for not replying fast enough.

At this point I was starting to get really pissed. I explained how I did not pay for damaged wheels. Damaged wheels are not in “great shape” (as described in his ad). I also explained that it was not feasible that they were damaged in shipping. I told him I wanted him to either cover repairs or give me half my money back.

223Hawk claims to be an honest guy, and I thought he was nice when I first interacted with him. But he stopped replying after that. I still have heard nothing from him even though he is obviously still an active member.

I finally got a chance to take the wheels to get fixed and got another wonderful surprise. They fixed the lips of the wheels (wheel straightening) but they informed me that 2 of the wheels had bent spokes. This is an irreversible type of damage. I paid $390. So while they fixed the outer lip of all the wheels, two of them will never be 100% fixed. So if I ever want my car to have wheels that are not damaged, I would have to replace at least two of my wheels!

To summarize, I paid $650 dollars + $390. That is $1040 that I invested in damaged wheels. Wheels that were said to be in “great shape” even though 2 of them are permanently damaged. I realize that 2 months is awhile to wait before letting him know but there is no way I could have known before I took them to be balanced. People who install and balance wheels for a living couldn’t tell just by looking at them. Sorry I don’t have a balancing machine at home nor am I a wheel specialist. All I know is there is no way these wheels were damaged while they sat in their boxes in my garage waiting to be installed.

I just want money to cover the repairs but 223Hawk is so mature that he won’t even reply to my messages anymore. Thanks if you read through all of this, I just wanted my story to be heard. I doubt 223Hawk will own up and make it right.

02*C5

iTrader: (1)

This is the reason that I never buy from forums. There is little to no recourse. Now saying this, I would have taken the wheels to a place that works with rims and tires to have them checked out and inspected immediately. Also another piece of advise from now on use pay pal. They have many resources if you dispute the exchange of funds for merchandise and it seems they seller was not being upfront or misrepresented his items. I am also sure there is another side of the story I hope that the seller at least responds if not then we know where the truth lies.

Cheetoh

iTrader: (10)

Very interesting, I would really like to see what 223Hawk has to say about this.

ta-stanger

iTrader: (6)

Well I know 223hawk and saw him running those wheels. The weren't bent.

He got a new set of wheels in the mail, and when they got there one of them was bent to HELL...and this is from the company not the forums. He had to send it back and get it fixed. So apparently they can be damaged in shipping...

Idk 223 is one of my good buddies and i have a hard time believing that he sold you "bent" wheels.

Sorry for the wheels though...

223HAWK

iTrader: (11)

https://ls1tech.com/forums/user-supp...sue-buyer.html

I understand being mad and upset with something you bought and it wasnt what it was said to be. I was up front and told everything I knew about the wheels. They were a USED item. I knew NOTHING about the wheels being bent. I had drove the car the day before I took the tires off. NO vibrations and no issues ever when I had tires put on. He contacted Paypal and tryed to file a complaint against me and basically it said, tough ****, you waited too long to do anything about it. It was more than 50 or 60 days, I cant remember off the top of my head. I personally would have taken the wheels to the tire shop that day just to check them out, with or with out tires. I just spent $2600 on a set of wheels adn they showed up bent! How do you think i felt? They were BRAND NEW.

I NEVER had any issues with the wheels. The car is not my daily driver, and has not been beat on. I cant believe that the spokes of the wheels were bent also. Im not paying to fix something that took you MONTHS to come forward with an issue. Its been 4 months since he filed a complaint with Paypal. He paid for them in Feb. and shortly after that, he would have received them.

I was honest and up front about everything I knew was wrong with them. I sell everything like that. I dont try to rip people off. If he would have acted in time, paypal would have assured him he would have got some kind of refund, but Months later, who knows what could have been done to them. Theres always 2 sides to a story, but I can assure you, they were not bent while on my car, and they had ALWAYS balanced out just fine and never any vibrations.

Im done, Im not going to argue with this fool, he contacts me and says to me, WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO PAY ME??..and threatens me with taking other actions. Looks like his other actions didnt work, Im done!

PitchblackC3

iTrader: (3)

I have to agree with 223HAWK here. If the wheels were bent in shipping and you didn't check it out for months there is no chance to file a claim against UPS.
If you had let him know immediately he could have had UPS take care of it, but you didn't give him that chance.

BeastBuster

iTrader: (1)

Interesting choice of words there. You are saying you understand about buying something that was not what it was said to be. And you are saying it in relation to my story about the wheels you sold me. You are admitting that you realize what I bought and what I received were two different things. Interesting... You admit that I have reason to be upset over the fact that I bought something that arrived not as advertised. You are the seller, which means you are the one who sold me the items that were not what they were supposed to be. And yet you did not and have not done anything about it.

Although I thoroughly enjoyed your anecdote about your wheels, it hardly seems relevant to my situation for a few reasons. First, according to your buddy's post, only one of your wheels showed up bent. I received three bent wheels. I wish only one of them would have shown up bent. Also your wheel showed up visibly damaged. I did look at mine and if they had arrived noticeably damaged, you would have known immediately. I had no reason to believe they were bent since I looked at them and the boxes (this is important) showed up with absolutely no signs of damage. It would be a little difficult for the wheels to be damaged without hurting the box don't you think? Finally, in your situation, it would appear that you contacted the seller and they agreed to fix the problem. Correct me if I'm wrong but that is what I am getting from the posts. My seller refused to take any sort of action. So while you have a resolution, my situation remains unresolved over six months after the fact.

Whether you choose to believe it or not does not change the fact that I am the one who has to deal with these wheels.

I decided to go back and look at the dates of the PMs since 223Hawk says I waited "MONTHS" to come forward with the issue. All of you would be interested to know that I PMed him on February 23 to let him know that the wheels arrived. I PMed him again on April 6 informing him that the wheels were bent. It would really seem that I waited "MONTHS," huh? That is 42 days.

Please read posts before you comment. Yes it has been four months since I tried to file the dispute with Paypal but that is solely because I was not permitted to post in this forum until recently.

Furthermore, let it be known that I offered to get a letter from Discount Tire showing documentation of the bent wheels or whatever proof he wanted me to get. He said he believed that they were bent.

There he goes with the "Months" thing again. Leave gross exaggerations out of arguments where time actually means something.

The fact that they balanced out on your car is completely irrelevant because they definitely did not balance out when put on my car and they were confirmed to be damaged. Whether they came off your car bent or they were bent in shipping is not really my concern. It is the responsibility of the seller to remedy situations with damaged items. Either way, it has been agreed that what I received is different from what was advertised. Still, you have taken no action.

Yes I am a fool for doing business with you, that much is clear. Say what you will but do not slander me. I challenge you to show me exactly where I said, "WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO PAY ME??" I can assure you I did no such thing.

I did say I would take other actions. Unfortunately, I was out of the time frame for the Paypal dispute. Though it is ironic that if the time frame for the dispute would have been measured after the date I received the wheels and not based on the purchase date, I would have been within the 45 day limit.

223HAWK

iTrader: (11)

What I was meaning by starting off my post was I see Why your mad. Iv bought a lot of stuff online and know what its like to get something messed up. I paid $350 for a set of tail lights for my old car and they showed up broke, and junk. I tryed getting ahold of the seller and he never replyed. Anyway To my knowledge I knew nothing about the wheels being bent. I told you they had the typical bubbling that they all have.That was the only thing that was wrong with them when I had them. I continue tosay I NEVER had an issue with the wheels being blanced or vibrating going down the road. Sorry I was incorrect in quoting your exact words, you were asking when was I going to do something about this. I dont feel its my place to help you after all this time. If this was done in a timely fashoin maybe, I do not know what YOU could have dont with the wheels. You say they were in boxes and never on the car, Well You dont believe me when I say the wheels were not bent when I owned them All 4 were in great shape. I dont need a letter telling me they are bent, because they very well could be but I cant not prove that something didnt happen to them in shipping or that you have had them on your car and get in a wreck, and Iv read that your car was in one, after the fact that you bought my wheels. Im not saying thats what happend, just doing some digging like you have. Ask anyone that knows me personally, I wouldnt rip off anyone just to do it, I hated to sell the wheels and wouldtn have if they would have fit my new rearend. Honestly I have been looking to find another set and run spacers on the back just so I can drive the car and not worry if its raining. My car gets drove maybe 5000 miles a year. I dont beat on it and never drive ruff roads. Acually I had to send two OTHER wheels of mine back because the tire shop said tehy were bent, after doing so, the wheel company says, they are not bent, it was the tires I was using, Changed tires and never had an issue with them balancing out. I would have taken them to another tire shop and see if they could have balanced them out before you try to make me pay and say I ripped you off. I clearly did not and had NO intension of doing so..

heres a few of our PMs:



When are you going to do something about this?


Quote:
Originally Posted by 223HAWK
Austin, Im still in the air about this. I cant believe the wheels are bent. Its not that I dont believe you or need a letter from a tire shop. Iv had a car (87 Trans Am) That the GTA wheels were bent, Yeah that sucked but who I knew a guy back then that could balance tires and take most of that out. I truly think they may have been bent in shipping! I think you need to contact UPS. I just dont know! The day they came off my car, I had drove the car, and NEVER any vibration at all. Not to be a Dick but you waited 2 months to get tires, then tell me they are bent. Im sorry but I dont feel I should pay for the repairs. If something would have came up sooner, I might be a lot more flexible, but this is more than 2 Months AFTER purchase. You got the Firehawk wheels at a VERY good price! If this was me, and I was very concerned about this, I would not wait days in between emails(Messages on ls1tech) and stay on top of this.

Thanks
Joey




Quote:
Originally Posted by BeastBuster
I cannot think of any reason why the people would not tell you that your wheels were bent... But the people over here at Discount Tire told me that there was no way you could not have known these were bent. But you seem to be an honest guy so I believe you were unaware but I find it very hard to believe that the people at Big-O could have missed it if they tried to balance them. I understand that you might not want to just take my word for it so if there is anything you want me to do (Letter from Discount, etc) let me know. I do need to get these fixed soon though, as vibrations are actually very noticeable... And they put the least bent wheel up front. I am gonna try and find some shops that straighten wheels and get back to you on what they quote me.

Thanks,

-Austin


Quote:
Originally Posted by 223HAWK
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeastBuster
Hey man I just had the wheels mounted today and unfortunately there is a problem... 3 of the wheels are bent. The employee balancing them called me over just so he could show me how bent they were. I am not looking to stir any trouble but I believe some sort of action needs to be taken. I paid a lot of money for wheels in really good condition. I will say that I do plan on keeping them so I am not looking to return. Just looking for some cooperation since I was told that fixing them will most likely cost more than I paid for them.

Thanks,

-Austin

Hey,

Really? I always took them to a Big-O Tire, its my local store, they all know me very well and I have had 2 different sets of tires mounted on them. NEVER have they told me they were bent nor did I feel any vibrations. I would always ask EVERY time they were off the car if they balanced out fine and the answer was Yes every time! I really dont know how to work this out because when they were shipped they were in great/ non bent shape??Maybe it was something that happend in shipping. Never once has my car had a vibration or odd feeling from bent wheels. The tires I used were a name brand tire (Nitto) and all mounted by professionals at a Big O Tire! Iv seen very shitty Firehawk wheels go for more than what I got out of these..


Thanks
Joey

Jim_PA

iTrader: (9)

What a mess. I doubt I would have checked them for straightness right away either, but I will know to do that if I ever buy wheels.

Even if you would have filed a UPS claim... Unless they were in bullet-proof boxes with 12" of high density foam padding on every side, they'd probably write it off as insufficient packaging. Which in that case, it would be between you, the seller, and paypal (if necessary) to work out a resolution, which probably would have resulted in you getting all your money back, or having him foot the bill for all the repairs.

The seller refunding you half of the cost for repairs seems fair based on the fact that it did take you quite a while to have them inspected, but in reality, he isn't obligated to do anything.

Judgement in favor of the plantiff for $195 <smacks gabble>

223HAWK

iTrader: (11)

I thought about this, when my wheels showed up, they were my front wheels for my car. The box had NO damange anywere, inside or out and both wheels were bent bad. One you could see the other you could no see. The boxes were brand new and still could not tell that they had been dropped or beat on in anyway..

BeastBuster

iTrader: (1)

Thank you for the support. Yes I have learned a lot from this experience and will be a lot more careful in the future.

Yes that does suck and I'm sorry the seller did that to you. It was wrong of him to do that just as it was wrong what you did. It seems that you have had a lot of experience with people screwing you over, so you should understand how I feel. Just as you wanted resolutions for your situations, that is all I wanted.

All this time? I told you all the way back in April they were bent. The time that has passed since then is not my fault since you are the one who started ignoring my messages.

I continuously said in my PMs that I believed you were an honest guy and that I believed you were unaware. It was not until you made it clear that you weren't going to do anything about it and then ignored me that I started to believe otherwise.

The seller is responsible for shipping damages. So if they were indeed damaged in shipping, it's on you.

As for my car being in a wreck, whatever obscure source you got that information from is completely false. I literally have no idea where you could have possibly even read that. Since I have owned my car in 2007, it has been in one accident. It was the winter of that same year. So I can guarantee my car being in a wreck did not damage these wheels. Besides, if that were indeed the case wouldn't it make sense that I would have insurance cover it instead of paying for the repairs out of my own pocket? If you are going to try and post theories, at least make sure they make sense first.

I have done no 'digging.' There is a big difference between 'digging' and going off information that is presented to me. Everything I said was based off things you and your friend, ta-stanger, posted in this thread.

The fact that you did not mean to rip me off or what other people say about your character has no weight on this case. What does matter, however, is that when told the wheels were damaged, you refused to do anything about it and stopped replying to my messages. That says more about your character than other people's opinions about you.

For the record, three different shops saw the wheels. Discount Tire, when I went to have the wheels mounted. A tire shop/wheel repair shop in Aurora IL when I was looking for repair quotes. Then finally Chicago Wheels where I paid for the repairs and was informed of the two bent spokes. By the way, it wouldn't have made a difference if I would have only taken them to Discount because the employee called me over to the balance machine. I saw with my own eyes that they were bent. It became very apparent when they were spinning on the machine.

BeastBuster

iTrader: (1)

Well apparently 223Hawk has nothing more to say.

To anyone who might consider doing business with him I ask that you think twice. He has not owned up to this and as such has cost me a lot of money.

blackmagicturbo

iTrader: (2)

i see both stories and heres my conclusion... beastbuster you bought used wheels that are bent.. 223hawk sold wheels that were bent without knowing... i worked for the tire company for 7 years (discount tire ,americas tire etc) and we never checked wheels when or after dismantling tires from the rim or removing from the vehicle unless we balanced them again with new TIRES... 223hawk probably didnt ask the workers to test spin the rims on the balancer before he sold them nobody usually does...223hawk learned his lesson from this and beastbuster will know that you should check things right away now since this experience...ive been buying things off the internet for a long time and its my responsibility to not get burned !!! oh yeah beast buy some used tires for your used rims and run the damn things, you probably wont even notice.. bent rims are exaggerated sometimes versus what you feel..

Donohue96M6Z28

iTrader: (64)

Yeah, have you even tried to get the wheels mounted/balanced? It's likely that you wont even notice. Also, I know neither of you. But I'm with 223Hawk on this one. If a seller sent me a message after 40+days of having a set of wheels that I sold them, I would have a hard time refunding any sort of money bc they are "now" bent. Who knows what happened to the wheels in that time frame. Also, if you spent $390 getting 2 of the wheels repaired, and then the shop came back saying that the spokes were bent and the wheels actually aren't repairable. I would personally be seeking a refund from the wheel repair shop. Bc whyTF are they going to "repair" the wheels and charge you $390, then come back and say they're damaged beyond repair. Could they not figure that out before having you pay the $390? Sounds like a shady MF shop to me.

badcompanygwd

iTrader: (4)

sounds like a shady consumer to me lmao

Mguncowboy

iTrader: (2)

I call for a cage match, looser eats the cost of the wheels! LOL. Both buyer and seller have good points. I'd say it's a good chance seller sold bent wheels without knowing and hopefully would have rectified the problem if it had been brought to his attention in a timely manner. Unfortunatly buyer didn't check the wheels when he got them. You have to check these things right away or you cant really blame the seller for being skeptical - I mean wouldn't you be if the shoe was on the other foot?

BeastBuster

iTrader: (1)

I have been running them. It was when I went to Discount and bought new tires that I found they were bent. I had them put the wheels on my car anyways and yes I could feel it as soon as I got on the road. Even my passenger felt it.

First off, I received and repaired three wheels, not two. Second, They repaired the part of the wheel that was repairable (the outer lip). All the wheels had lip damage and two had bent spokes. All of this was explained in the first post. They managed to get the wheels to balance (after repairing all the lips) but they still informed me that there was nothing that they or anybody could do about bent spokes.

I do not blame him for being skeptical. I do blame him for the way in which he has handled this situation. I offered to get him any kind of proof he needed to show him that this was not my doing. Discount Tire took the wheels out of the box they were shipped in and put them right on my car. What could I have possibly done to them? If 223hawk wanted proof he should have asked for it instead of telling me that it wasn't necessary and then ignore me so that it had to get to this point.

Lanaue

iTrader: (3)

That f ing sucks!!

Donohue96M6Z28

iTrader: (64)

I read your posts whyTF would you pay $390 to "repair" wheels that couldn't be repaired 100% bc of the bent spokes??

BeastBuster

iTrader: (1)

Well the way rim straightening works is that there is mainly one type of damage that is repairable and other types that are not (I am no expert but this is what I have picked up from the various shops I talked to). Wheels that are bent on the outer lip are repairable whereas any damage to the spoke is not. The service that the shop offered pertains to straightening. And since all three wheels needed straightening they did their job. It sucks that they can't fix bent spokes but they still did the job they offered so at 130 per wheel it came to $390. So yeah I am pissed that I had to pay to repair bent wheels that I didn't damage and that two of them have bent spokes. But at least now they balanced out and do not cause my car to vibrate like hell.