Please help me understand this issue!!
05-20-2012, 04:09 PM
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Please help me understand this issue!! About a week ago, I purchased a torque arm relocation bracket from Jesse Bankes aka Turnin20s which was listed as a 93-02 LS2/LS3/LS7/L92/LS9 part. I sent the money right away thru paypal to avoid having someone else come in and beat me to the sale.
After I received the bracket I could not fit it because it is in fact not for 93-02 but only for 93-97 LT1, which is not listed on his sale ad. I contacted him right away to state my case.
The original ad was recently removed for what he claims that all items have been sold, but nonetheless it seems like all that was done was clean up any loose ends. Luckly for him, I have a copy of the ad that was saved on my phone;
Notice how the UMI Adjustable TA Trimmed Axle Mount remained unsold on his original ad and has now magically re-appeared on a new ad;
https://ls1tech.com/forums/parts-cla...s-mounted.html
We have been back and forth a few times and he has admitted not knowing there was a difference between the LT1 and LS1. The argument now is that he posted a picture of the item and it was my responsibility to make sure the item fit.
I agree with his argument to the point that my fault rests with not doing my homework, however the fact remains that I still have a part that I cannot use.
Here is a copy of his initial response to my contact with him to let him know that I had an issue;
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Most of the parts listed would fit 93-02 cars, I honestly didn't know that there was a difference between the LT1 and LS1 cars. I did post a pic of it and you saw that before making the purchase.
I'll try to help you out, but I don't have the money anymore. I emailed UMI to see if they would take it on return and if they will I can help you, but if not I guess I'll figure that out when the time comes.
And sorry for the delay, the wife and I were out for the day.
Jesse
Quote:
Originally Posted by SS#2906
Any thoughts on this??
Quote:
Originally Posted by SS#2906
Jesse,
I have a problem, your bracket was listed for 93-02 but it is only for 93-97
98-02 is different and this will not work for me.
Sorry for the trouble but how can we work this out?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
After several other messages, he asked that I ship the part back to him at my expense and only then he would issue the refund, even after stating that he didn't have the money anymore.
After knowing that the money is gone, would any of you send the part back and risk loosing out on the part and the money?
I am trying to understand what is so complicated about the process..........
Guy sends money for part thru paypal,
Guys receives part and is wrong part,
Refund is issued by seller,
part is shipped back to seller,
I know that the last 2 may be backwards, but when dealing with individuals it is very hard to predict intentions.
I am not the type to just post bad feedback or file paypal disputes without just cause, but this is just not going to well for me.
What do you guys think?
After I received the bracket I could not fit it because it is in fact not for 93-02 but only for 93-97 LT1, which is not listed on his sale ad. I contacted him right away to state my case.
The original ad was recently removed for what he claims that all items have been sold, but nonetheless it seems like all that was done was clean up any loose ends. Luckly for him, I have a copy of the ad that was saved on my phone;
Notice how the UMI Adjustable TA Trimmed Axle Mount remained unsold on his original ad and has now magically re-appeared on a new ad;
https://ls1tech.com/forums/parts-cla...s-mounted.html
We have been back and forth a few times and he has admitted not knowing there was a difference between the LT1 and LS1. The argument now is that he posted a picture of the item and it was my responsibility to make sure the item fit.
I agree with his argument to the point that my fault rests with not doing my homework, however the fact remains that I still have a part that I cannot use.
Here is a copy of his initial response to my contact with him to let him know that I had an issue;
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Most of the parts listed would fit 93-02 cars, I honestly didn't know that there was a difference between the LT1 and LS1 cars. I did post a pic of it and you saw that before making the purchase.
I'll try to help you out, but I don't have the money anymore. I emailed UMI to see if they would take it on return and if they will I can help you, but if not I guess I'll figure that out when the time comes.
And sorry for the delay, the wife and I were out for the day.
Jesse
Quote:
Originally Posted by SS#2906
Any thoughts on this??
Quote:
Originally Posted by SS#2906
Jesse,
I have a problem, your bracket was listed for 93-02 but it is only for 93-97
98-02 is different and this will not work for me.
Sorry for the trouble but how can we work this out?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
After several other messages, he asked that I ship the part back to him at my expense and only then he would issue the refund, even after stating that he didn't have the money anymore.
After knowing that the money is gone, would any of you send the part back and risk loosing out on the part and the money?
I am trying to understand what is so complicated about the process..........
Guy sends money for part thru paypal,
Guys receives part and is wrong part,
Refund is issued by seller,
part is shipped back to seller,
I know that the last 2 may be backwards, but when dealing with individuals it is very hard to predict intentions.
I am not the type to just post bad feedback or file paypal disputes without just cause, but this is just not going to well for me.
What do you guys think?
05-20-2012, 04:18 PM
#2
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I've sent a copy of this to the seller so that everyone can get both sides of the story.
Please give your fair opinions.
Please give your fair opinions.
Last edited by SS#2906; 05-20-2012 at 04:23 PM.
05-20-2012, 06:18 PM
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i would just do a paypal claim and get the money that way. paypal dont care if he has the money they will just take it. the only reason i would the claim is that he said he doesnt have the money.
05-20-2012, 07:17 PM
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I'm trying to give him the benefit of the doubt.
His only argument is that he posted the picture and that it is MY responsibility to make sure the part is correct. As a buyer, I expect the seller to know what they are selling, after all they are the ones trying to make a sell, not the buyer.
I even asked him to send at least half the money up front and the rest once he receives the part, but he seems to be bullshitting to no end.
He is questioning why I recently also posted the same part for sale on this forum, when I had already told him that I was going to try to resell unless he wanted to work something out. I will resell and leave bad feedback for him if I have to take this recourse.
His only argument is that he posted the picture and that it is MY responsibility to make sure the part is correct. As a buyer, I expect the seller to know what they are selling, after all they are the ones trying to make a sell, not the buyer.
I even asked him to send at least half the money up front and the rest once he receives the part, but he seems to be bullshitting to no end.
He is questioning why I recently also posted the same part for sale on this forum, when I had already told him that I was going to try to resell unless he wanted to work something out. I will resell and leave bad feedback for him if I have to take this recourse.
05-20-2012, 11:24 PM
#7
Ok 2 sides to every story I guess.
I had multiple parts listed for sale, Adj TA, LCAs, PHB, rear axle, and this TA mount. I stated that they were removed from my car due to it changing directions and that I ordered a MWC rear axle package. I did list the parts for 93-02, but I did post clear pics of all of the items.
Now the reason for removing my original post, not that it really has anything to with anything, is that I sold most of my parts and I kept getting PMs to separate my rear axle even though I said I didn't really want to separate it. And I decided to keep the axle for my Jeep. Then I relisted the TA in a post by itself and left out the 8.8, I don't see an issue with this personally and I feel it keeps the classifieds from getting cluttered with dead threads.
Now onto the actual issue.
He sends me a message that the part won't work on 5/18 at 2:24 am that it won't work and asked how we could work it out. Then at 1:34 pm saying any thoughts. Now I was out with my wife for a date and didn't have a chance to respond back right away. And then I responded back on 5/18 at 8:49 pm with:
Now at 2:00 am on 5/19 he lists the part for sale https://ls1tech.com/forums/parts-cla...n-bracket.html
Then, after seeing the for sale post, I told him if he sends the part back I will refund the money. I still have money, just not the money he sent me as I bought seats with the balance he sent me. I have been seeing people getting ripped off by this approach lately and I want to cover my bases. I contacted UMI and am waiting for a response and told him I would let him know what their response was.
Then he tells me I'm trying to resolve this issue, but he is making it near impossible to do anything. If he sends the TA back he will get a refund, but he is not going to sell it and get a refund from me. I'm an honest guy, I haven't ripped anyone off and I'm trying to resolve the issue without making a big deal about it.
BTW here's the clear pic I used of the TA Relocation Kit:
I should also add that he never asked if it would fit a 98+ car, and I'm sorry but I don't have the ability to read minds.
Thank you for your time,
Jesse
I had multiple parts listed for sale, Adj TA, LCAs, PHB, rear axle, and this TA mount. I stated that they were removed from my car due to it changing directions and that I ordered a MWC rear axle package. I did list the parts for 93-02, but I did post clear pics of all of the items.
Now the reason for removing my original post, not that it really has anything to with anything, is that I sold most of my parts and I kept getting PMs to separate my rear axle even though I said I didn't really want to separate it. And I decided to keep the axle for my Jeep. Then I relisted the TA in a post by itself and left out the 8.8, I don't see an issue with this personally and I feel it keeps the classifieds from getting cluttered with dead threads.
Now onto the actual issue.
He sends me a message that the part won't work on 5/18 at 2:24 am that it won't work and asked how we could work it out. Then at 1:34 pm saying any thoughts. Now I was out with my wife for a date and didn't have a chance to respond back right away. And then I responded back on 5/18 at 8:49 pm with:
Originally Posted by Turnin20s
Most of the parts listed would fit 93-02 cars, I honestly didn't know that there was a difference between the LT1 and LS1 cars. I did post a pic of it and you saw that before making the purchase.
I'll try to help you out, but I don't have the money anymore. I emailed UMI to see if they would take it on return and if they will I can help you, but if not I guess I'll figure that out when the time comes.
And sorry for the delay, the wife and I were out for the day.
Jesse
Most of the parts listed would fit 93-02 cars, I honestly didn't know that there was a difference between the LT1 and LS1 cars. I did post a pic of it and you saw that before making the purchase.
I'll try to help you out, but I don't have the money anymore. I emailed UMI to see if they would take it on return and if they will I can help you, but if not I guess I'll figure that out when the time comes.
And sorry for the delay, the wife and I were out for the day.
Jesse
Of course I put it for sale be cause you don't seem to want to do right by your sale.
Then, after seeing the for sale post, I told him if he sends the part back I will refund the money. I still have money, just not the money he sent me as I bought seats with the balance he sent me. I have been seeing people getting ripped off by this approach lately and I want to cover my bases. I contacted UMI and am waiting for a response and told him I would let him know what their response was.
Then he tells me
It's obvious that dealing with you is like trying to talk to my 5 year old, so I am also done with this conversation.
It is obvious that you need the money more than I do, so please keep it. I will buy the part I need from a decent member on this board and when your part sells I will cover my loss from dealing with you.
It is obvious that you need the money more than I do, so please keep it. I will buy the part I need from a decent member on this board and when your part sells I will cover my loss from dealing with you.
BTW here's the clear pic I used of the TA Relocation Kit:
I should also add that he never asked if it would fit a 98+ car, and I'm sorry but I don't have the ability to read minds.
Thank you for your time,
Jesse
Last edited by Turnin20s; 05-20-2012 at 11:42 PM.
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05-20-2012, 11:43 PM
#8
05-21-2012, 11:51 AM
#10
It's obvious that dealing with you is like trying to talk to my 5 year old, so I am also done with this conversation.
It is obvious that you need the money more than I do, so please keep it. I will buy the part I need from a decent member on this board and when your part sells I will cover my loss from dealing with you.
It is obvious that you need the money more than I do, so please keep it. I will buy the part I need from a decent member on this board and when your part sells I will cover my loss from dealing with you.
Jesse
Last edited by Turnin20s; 05-21-2012 at 12:01 PM.
05-21-2012, 01:51 PM
#11
My opinion:
If you're (OP) telling him to keep the money already, then what do you have to lose by sending it back to begin with? Guy has good feedback, and has been a member for a long time, and even responded in this thread without getting ugly.
I'd send it back and let him refund you.
Both of you kinda screwed up in this case.
Seller- It's not necissarily your responsibility to check component fitment, but by all means let people know it came off an LT1.
OP- Why didn't you ask for a part # or what car it came off of? That's you're responsibility. A 15 second Google search would have told you this relocation kit wasn't for you.
Squash this **** and be done with it. If you're not afraid to lose your money and you told him to keep it, then send it back. What have you got to lose at this point, right?
And YOU pay for shipping. Lesson learned, and move on.
If you're (OP) telling him to keep the money already, then what do you have to lose by sending it back to begin with? Guy has good feedback, and has been a member for a long time, and even responded in this thread without getting ugly.
I'd send it back and let him refund you.
Both of you kinda screwed up in this case.
Seller- It's not necissarily your responsibility to check component fitment, but by all means let people know it came off an LT1.
OP- Why didn't you ask for a part # or what car it came off of? That's you're responsibility. A 15 second Google search would have told you this relocation kit wasn't for you.
Squash this **** and be done with it. If you're not afraid to lose your money and you told him to keep it, then send it back. What have you got to lose at this point, right?
And YOU pay for shipping. Lesson learned, and move on.
05-21-2012, 02:15 PM
#12
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I completely agree with you dr_whigham^^^^^^I'd rather squash this and get my money back. I am having a hard time getting the seller to agree to send money back. As you can see from the messages posted, he wants to have UMI involved and I do not see how that would work out even IF they agree to the swap........ I send part to UMI (pay shipping), UMI sends replacement part to seller (pay shipping), and seller sends part back to me (pay shipping).
Since it is both of our faults, I want to work with the seller instead of resorting to reselling the part on my end. I posted it for sale to see if I could help the seller keep the money by me selling it to the CORRECT person who can use it.
Jesse, did I offend you by saying that your like my 5 year old?
If I remember correctly, you called me a crook by saying that I was going to keep your refund and sell the part on top of it. Here is the entire conversation that lead me to say that, so please don't try to sell yourself as the victim here because WE ARE BOTH AT FAULT. Not sure how many times I have to say that to make you understand.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: UMI TA Relocation Bracket
You are 100% correct, you SHOULD have included in your add that ALL SALES ARE FINAL, but you didn't. Just like you shouldn't have listed your parts as 93-02.
It's obvious that dealing with you is like trying to talk to my 5 year old, so I am also done with this conversation.
It is obvious that you need the money more than I do, so please keep it. I will buy the part I need from a decent member on this board and when your part sells I will cover my loss from dealing with you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turnin20s
I was willing to help you out, I emailed UMI and am still waiting for a reply, but this is a forum and I'm sorry I should have put all sales are final, or it's up to you to make sure it fits your vehicle. Like I said you never asked me if it would fit your car, so take responsibility in your actions. I posted pics, you made the purchase. I didn't misrepresent the part or anything like that, I said they were removed from my car, which is listed in my sig, as they were being replaced by MWC parts.
And I removed the post because I sold most of my parts and I got tired of people low balling me offers on my 8.8, or wanting me to separate everything after I said I wouldn't. And what does that have to do with anything??
I'm over this.
Have a good one
Quote:
Originally Posted by SS#2906
Of course I put it for sale be cause you don't seem to want to do right by your sale.
I'm not going to sit around waiting for you to make up your mind if you're going to make this right or just tell me to go f*@k myself.
I also noticed that you deleted the original thread where you had this item for sale, so there is no difference from what I did.
Based on your attitude, I cannot afford to ship this part back to you without some sort of deposit as security. I have no guarantee that you will send money back. Since you are not a business I can not treat you like one either and expect that my refund will be sent once part is received.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turnin20s
Well you are treating me like a business so I'm operating this transaction like one. And you wanted a full refund, good luck getting that from any business when you still have the part.
I also noticed that you have the Relocation Kit for sale. So what was your plan? Me to refund you your money and then you could sell it and make another $225?
Here's the deal, there has been alot of this going on here on the forum. So I don't have the part in my hands, you don't get a refund.
Good luck with your sale.
Later
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is the main reason why I posted this on LS1tech so that we can both get unbiased answers from members on this board. I have NO problem sending this back to you at MY cost.....as long as I can get you to agree to send me my money back.
And please don't try to compare trader ratings.....I have 4 times more than you.
Since it is both of our faults, I want to work with the seller instead of resorting to reselling the part on my end. I posted it for sale to see if I could help the seller keep the money by me selling it to the CORRECT person who can use it.
Jesse, did I offend you by saying that your like my 5 year old?
If I remember correctly, you called me a crook by saying that I was going to keep your refund and sell the part on top of it. Here is the entire conversation that lead me to say that, so please don't try to sell yourself as the victim here because WE ARE BOTH AT FAULT. Not sure how many times I have to say that to make you understand.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: UMI TA Relocation Bracket
You are 100% correct, you SHOULD have included in your add that ALL SALES ARE FINAL, but you didn't. Just like you shouldn't have listed your parts as 93-02.
It's obvious that dealing with you is like trying to talk to my 5 year old, so I am also done with this conversation.
It is obvious that you need the money more than I do, so please keep it. I will buy the part I need from a decent member on this board and when your part sells I will cover my loss from dealing with you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turnin20s
I was willing to help you out, I emailed UMI and am still waiting for a reply, but this is a forum and I'm sorry I should have put all sales are final, or it's up to you to make sure it fits your vehicle. Like I said you never asked me if it would fit your car, so take responsibility in your actions. I posted pics, you made the purchase. I didn't misrepresent the part or anything like that, I said they were removed from my car, which is listed in my sig, as they were being replaced by MWC parts.
And I removed the post because I sold most of my parts and I got tired of people low balling me offers on my 8.8, or wanting me to separate everything after I said I wouldn't. And what does that have to do with anything??
I'm over this.
Have a good one
Quote:
Originally Posted by SS#2906
Of course I put it for sale be cause you don't seem to want to do right by your sale.
I'm not going to sit around waiting for you to make up your mind if you're going to make this right or just tell me to go f*@k myself.
I also noticed that you deleted the original thread where you had this item for sale, so there is no difference from what I did.
Based on your attitude, I cannot afford to ship this part back to you without some sort of deposit as security. I have no guarantee that you will send money back. Since you are not a business I can not treat you like one either and expect that my refund will be sent once part is received.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turnin20s
Well you are treating me like a business so I'm operating this transaction like one. And you wanted a full refund, good luck getting that from any business when you still have the part.
I also noticed that you have the Relocation Kit for sale. So what was your plan? Me to refund you your money and then you could sell it and make another $225?
Here's the deal, there has been alot of this going on here on the forum. So I don't have the part in my hands, you don't get a refund.
Good luck with your sale.
Later
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is the main reason why I posted this on LS1tech so that we can both get unbiased answers from members on this board. I have NO problem sending this back to you at MY cost.....as long as I can get you to agree to send me my money back.
And please don't try to compare trader ratings.....I have 4 times more than you.
05-21-2012, 02:54 PM
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Thank you UMI, didn't think that was even possible.
Musclecarnut, I am not blaming the seller for trying to rip someone off. I think that everyone is saying that he should have been more clear on this listing of the item. I jumped up at the offer when I saw T-56 and listed for 93-02 LS2/LS3/LS7/L92/LS9
Musclecarnut, I am not blaming the seller for trying to rip someone off. I think that everyone is saying that he should have been more clear on this listing of the item. I jumped up at the offer when I saw T-56 and listed for 93-02 LS2/LS3/LS7/L92/LS9
05-29-2012, 09:01 PM
#16
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So I managed to sell the part locally. All I lost on this deal was the express shipping, but that is not the responsibility of the seller how fast I want my parts.
I never received any additional communication from the seller regarding this deal, further confirming my insecurity of the true intention. So now the question is.......what should I leave as feedback?
Since it was both our faults, should we agree to disagree and leave NO feedback or do I warn others to be cautious when dealing with this person.
I never received any additional communication from the seller regarding this deal, further confirming my insecurity of the true intention. So now the question is.......what should I leave as feedback?
Since it was both our faults, should we agree to disagree and leave NO feedback or do I warn others to be cautious when dealing with this person.
05-29-2012, 10:05 PM
#17
i would just leave it alone with no feedback since the whole sale was a BIG misunderstanding with poor communication on both ends prior to the sale. you both sound like stand up guys, and you just got caught up in a tough situation. do the right thing and turn your backs and walk away.
05-31-2012, 12:02 PM
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I would leave him negative feedback due to the fact he was clearly trying to be deceptive by not completely telling both sides of the story and trying to play himself up to be the victim.