Crank pulley bolt - cannot fully torque?
11-30-2014, 02:20 PM
#1
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Crank pulley bolt - cannot fully torque? Installing my harmonic balancer after doing a rebuild. Used a long m16x2.0 bolt and some washers to get it on, then after it bottomed out I swapped to the old bolt and used it to get the rest of the way on. Space between front cover and the lip on the edge balancer is ~0.123", so all seems good.
With that said, I went to put the new bolt on. Torqued it down to 37ft/lbs, no problem. Started to torque it down the extra 140 degrees and I just absolutely cannot get it to go past 90 degrees. I've destroyed 2 nice strong screwdrivers and it didn't turn at all past the 90 degrees.
Any recommendations or thoughts on what to do? Motor is still currently on the engine stand.
With that said, I went to put the new bolt on. Torqued it down to 37ft/lbs, no problem. Started to torque it down the extra 140 degrees and I just absolutely cannot get it to go past 90 degrees. I've destroyed 2 nice strong screwdrivers and it didn't turn at all past the 90 degrees.
Any recommendations or thoughts on what to do? Motor is still currently on the engine stand.
11-30-2014, 10:59 PM
#2
So you just need something to hold the motor from turning over? I previously used a longer than normal clutch bolt and threaded it all the way through the flywheel until it was behind an ear on the block. Same could be done with the flexplate if you are auto. I ended up doing my crank pulley in the vehicle though. It's pretty easy when you can put it in 4th or higher and just set the brake and chock the wheels.
You really should make or buy a tool to install the pulley in the future..$20 total cost. Plenty of threads about that. When applying such forces you risk messing up the threads in the crank. Better to use threaded rod(what most tools are made of) hand-tight in the end of the crank and let the "work" be done by the threads on the end of the rod that is sticking out.
There are also specific flywheel and flexplate holding tools though I have never used one.
Good luck.
You really should make or buy a tool to install the pulley in the future..$20 total cost. Plenty of threads about that. When applying such forces you risk messing up the threads in the crank. Better to use threaded rod(what most tools are made of) hand-tight in the end of the crank and let the "work" be done by the threads on the end of the rod that is sticking out.
There are also specific flywheel and flexplate holding tools though I have never used one.
Good luck.
11-30-2014, 11:05 PM
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Thanks for the reply. I'm going to be attaching the clutch and transmission probably tomorrow, so I'll just throw it in 4th and go from there.
(While I'm at it, how the hell do I get it in reverse? I would figure that I should be able to just row it all the way to the right and go up, but once it hits the 5th/6th gear row, it acts like it just hits a wall and will not go any farther to the right.)
As for the tool to install, I did make one. I got a long m16x2.0 bolt and some fender washers and used that to install it about 90% of the way, then used the old bolt for the rest of the way, same as I've seen numerous threads mention.
They mention going to 240ft/lbs, though my torque wrench only goes up to 150ft/lbs, so I just put some muscle behind it until it was back to the area where it used to be as evidenced by the weathering on the balancer, which I then followed up with checking the clearance all around to spec.
Assuming that I cannot get it to turn any more, what would be my next step of action to diagnose the issue?
(While I'm at it, how the hell do I get it in reverse? I would figure that I should be able to just row it all the way to the right and go up, but once it hits the 5th/6th gear row, it acts like it just hits a wall and will not go any farther to the right.)
As for the tool to install, I did make one. I got a long m16x2.0 bolt and some fender washers and used that to install it about 90% of the way, then used the old bolt for the rest of the way, same as I've seen numerous threads mention.
They mention going to 240ft/lbs, though my torque wrench only goes up to 150ft/lbs, so I just put some muscle behind it until it was back to the area where it used to be as evidenced by the weathering on the balancer, which I then followed up with checking the clearance all around to spec.
Assuming that I cannot get it to turn any more, what would be my next step of action to diagnose the issue?
11-30-2014, 11:57 PM
#4
The point to the threaded rod is to take it easy on the threads inside the crank. You might be is ok like some others but it's risky doing it with a bolt. Sounds like you got it on though.
O'Reilly or similar will rent you a torque wrench capable of 250.
O'Reilly or similar will rent you a torque wrench capable of 250.
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12-01-2014, 12:04 AM
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Duly noted, thank you.
12-01-2014, 10:49 AM
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Right now it's resting on the floor of my garage, I took it off the engine stand last night. If you have some idea or thought that requires me to put it back on the engine stand, I can easily do that in a few minutes time. It's still attached to the hoist right now.
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12-01-2014, 11:29 AM
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Interesting. Looks like it serves in place of the flywheel, with something easier/better to hold. Presuming you can just get a pipe over one end and use it to hold and/or lock it against the engine stand arm.
Looks like you custom made it? Just a simple rod, piece of square steel, and some holes drilled, then welded it all up together?
Looks like you custom made it? Just a simple rod, piece of square steel, and some holes drilled, then welded it all up together?
12-01-2014, 11:30 AM
#12
The plate bolts to the crank shaft, and the bar welded to the plate will rotate and jam against the engine stand when you torque the pulley bolt.
Yes made it my self, just a 1/4 thick 4''x4'' square plate with a 18" bar of 3/4" cold roll steel.
Yes made it my self, just a 1/4 thick 4''x4'' square plate with a 18" bar of 3/4" cold roll steel.
12-01-2014, 11:31 AM
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Very nice. Looks to be pretty easy to make. If, for whatever reason, I cannot get it to work with having the transmission on, I'll make one of those and try it out. Thank you very much, sir. 
12-01-2014, 01:38 PM
#16
Yep, I understand, it's why I got the long m16x2.0. I couldn't find a matching rod, but I could find a very long bolt, so I used it in place until it bottomed out, at which point I swapped over to the old bolt. The end result is the same as the rod in preventing stress on the crank threads. Last thing I would want is to strip them out, lol.
Duly noted, thank you.
Duly noted, thank you.
#1 - using the bolt - While turning the bolt into the crank and pulling the pulley on, the threads of the bolt are working/grinding against the threads of the crank and causing additional wear and stress there.
#2 - using the threaded rod - you thread the rod into the crank by hand until it bottoms out. Then put a washer and a nut and thrust/roller bearing on the end of the rod sticking out. Now when we turn said nut and draw the pulley onto the crank, we are still applying some outward force to the threads in the crank snout but the rotational "grinding" wear is limited to the threads on the end of the rod. And rod is cheaper to replace than crank when it wears out obviously.
I actually found a neat $5 roller thrust bearing to put between the nut and washer and made the whole thing very smooth to install...but unnecessary and over-engineered--the washer itself works fine.
You did better than most by getting the longer bolt but for keeping your crank threads living as long as possible, the rod is preferred.
BTW, I hope you know that the 4th gear trick(6th, really for the best gearing) only works IN the car; otherwise you would need come method to then hold the output shaft of the transmission.
Last edited by Mercier; 12-01-2014 at 02:03 PM.
12-01-2014, 01:42 PM
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Not beating this drum just for the sake of beating it but I think I haven't properly explained.
#1 - using the bolt - While turning the bolt into the crank and pulling the pulley on, the threads of the bolt are working/grinding against the threads of the crank and causing additional wear and stress there.
#2 - using the threaded rod - you thread the rod into the crank by hand until it bottoms out. Then put a washer and a nut and roller bearing on the end of the rod sticking out. Now when we turn said nut and draw the pulley onto the crank, we are still applying some outward force to the threads in the crank snout but the rotational "grinding" wear is limited to the threads on the end of the rod. And rod is cheaper to replace than crank when it wears out obviously.
I actually found a neat $5 roller thrust bearing to put between the nut and washer and made the whole thing very smooth to install...but unnecessary and over-engineered--the washer itself works fine.
You did better than most by getting the longer bolt but for keeping your crank threads living as long as possible, the rod is preferred.
#1 - using the bolt - While turning the bolt into the crank and pulling the pulley on, the threads of the bolt are working/grinding against the threads of the crank and causing additional wear and stress there.
#2 - using the threaded rod - you thread the rod into the crank by hand until it bottoms out. Then put a washer and a nut and roller bearing on the end of the rod sticking out. Now when we turn said nut and draw the pulley onto the crank, we are still applying some outward force to the threads in the crank snout but the rotational "grinding" wear is limited to the threads on the end of the rod. And rod is cheaper to replace than crank when it wears out obviously.
I actually found a neat $5 roller thrust bearing to put between the nut and washer and made the whole thing very smooth to install...but unnecessary and over-engineered--the washer itself works fine.
You did better than most by getting the longer bolt but for keeping your crank threads living as long as possible, the rod is preferred.
I don't suppose anybody could clarify about the reverse issue while I have a few people in the thread, could they?
12-01-2014, 03:20 PM
#18
If your going to fab up your own tool use the fly wheel for your template to get the holes lined up. Also I used 2 washers inbetween the plate and the bar when I welded it in to place. This space will clear the lip on the crank so the plate sits flush and the bar isn't smashed to the the lip.
12-01-2014, 03:23 PM
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If your going to fab up your own tool use the fly wheel for your template to get the holes lined up. Also I used 2 washers inbetween the plate and the bar when I welded it in to place. This space will clear the lip on the crank so the plate sits flush and the bar isn't smashed to the the lip.
12-01-2014, 03:58 PM
#20
http://forums.corral.net/forums/gene...-good-one.html
http://www.thirdgen.org/forums/trans...e-lockout.html
I think these links will help you figure something out. Sounds like when the solenoid is unhooked it's possible but requires serious effort and risks transmission damage to try to get it into reverse. Test it by hooking a battery to it maybe? There's also the "skip shift" or second gear lockout you may or may not have and should likely check out depending on what you've got.
+1 that crank holding apparatus is simple, obvious, and really sweet.
http://www.thirdgen.org/forums/trans...e-lockout.html
I think these links will help you figure something out. Sounds like when the solenoid is unhooked it's possible but requires serious effort and risks transmission damage to try to get it into reverse. Test it by hooking a battery to it maybe? There's also the "skip shift" or second gear lockout you may or may not have and should likely check out depending on what you've got.
+1 that crank holding apparatus is simple, obvious, and really sweet.