EGR DELETE- how to fix and pass emissions
04-06-2017, 03:03 PM
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EGR DELETE- how to fix and pass emissions So I am brand new on this forum and have never posted anything. I recently got a 98 trans am and was told that it was egr deleted. I had no clue what that meant at the time. I live in Northern va and have emissions testing here. I do have high glow cats and o2 sensors but what should I do to pass emissions? I attempted to ask a tuner but they told me I was asking them to break state and federal laws which was not my intent. What should my next step be if I have a SES light and egr codes? I'm trying to get va tags and my vehicle registered so I can actually drive the car, what ideas do you guys with more experience have for me? I read through some of the egr posts but could never get a definite answer for what Va guys and gals are doing.
04-06-2017, 06:36 PM
#2
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So I am brand new on this forum and have never posted anything. I recently got a 98 trans am and was told that it was egr deleted. I had no clue what that meant at the time. I live in Northern va and have emissions testing here. I do have high glow cats and o2 sensors but what should I do to pass emissions? I attempted to ask a tuner but they told me I was asking them to break state and federal laws which was not my intent. What should my next step be if I have a SES light and egr codes? I'm trying to get va tags and my vehicle registered so I can actually drive the car, what ideas do you guys with more experience have for me? I read through some of the egr posts but could never get a definite answer for what Va guys and gals are doing.
04-06-2017, 07:04 PM
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He was defensive from the start, which was strange. So if I find a new tuner what exactly should I ask them to do for me? I think all of them make you sign waivers for "off road only" purposes which I understand. I guess what I'm asking is what should I ask for so I can guarantee the codes are turned off?
04-06-2017, 08:22 PM
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He was defensive from the start, which was strange. So if I find a new tuner what exactly should I ask them to do for me? I think all of them make you sign waivers for "off road only" purposes which I understand. I guess what I'm asking is what should I ask for so I can guarantee the codes are turned off?
That is a 10 second job for anyone who knows how to use HPtuners. If I remember right all it is is changing a setting for the EGR to read "ok", same deal with the 02 sensors if you don't have cats.
04-07-2017, 08:33 AM
#6
This is Northern Virginia. They actually sniff the tailpipe for emissions tests (not the OBDII BS scans that we enjoy in the rest of the country.) and they have state-licensed vehicle inspection stations. The consequences for defeating emissions are significant - not quite like, but in the same theme as California.
Where did this car come from, originally? I have heard of some people installing the EGR and taking it back off after their emissions tests are done.
Your first step would be to have the car scanned, figure out what the codes are for, and then resolve them. Even then, once you resolve all those issues I would be shocked if you could pass VA emissions without an EGR system. I know people with stock cars who have failed the test just by having a working, but worn, oxygen sensor.
Where did this car come from, originally? I have heard of some people installing the EGR and taking it back off after their emissions tests are done.
Your first step would be to have the car scanned, figure out what the codes are for, and then resolve them. Even then, once you resolve all those issues I would be shocked if you could pass VA emissions without an EGR system. I know people with stock cars who have failed the test just by having a working, but worn, oxygen sensor.
04-07-2017, 12:57 PM
#7
The EGR Delete is basically worthless for horsepower gain. I would reinstall and re-enable the EGR system.
The EGR tube that extends down in to the manifold has basically no effects on airflow. The air moves along the outside walls of the intake not down the centers of plenum based on what I've read.
Back in 2000 we cut the tube off flush and that was worth nothing on the dyno.
The PCM uses EGR flow to reduce emissions and cool the cylinder temp so the mixture can be leaner for best gas mileage under cruise conditions in the cars with OEM EGR with stock cam. This reduces helps manage detonation at lean mix cruise conditions.
With Aftermarket Cams the EGR basically is irrelevant most cases
The EGR tube that extends down in to the manifold has basically no effects on airflow. The air moves along the outside walls of the intake not down the centers of plenum based on what I've read.
Back in 2000 we cut the tube off flush and that was worth nothing on the dyno.
The PCM uses EGR flow to reduce emissions and cool the cylinder temp so the mixture can be leaner for best gas mileage under cruise conditions in the cars with OEM EGR with stock cam. This reduces helps manage detonation at lean mix cruise conditions.
With Aftermarket Cams the EGR basically is irrelevant most cases
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04-08-2017, 12:12 AM
#8
The EGR Delete is basically worthless for horsepower gain. I would reinstall and re-enable the EGR system.
The EGR tube that extends down in to the manifold has basically no effects on airflow. The air moves along the outside walls of the intake not down the centers of plenum based on what I've read.
Back in 2000 we cut the tube off flush and that was worth nothing on the dyno.
The PCM uses EGR flow to reduce emissions and cool the cylinder temp so the mixture can be leaner for best gas mileage under cruise conditions in the cars with OEM EGR with stock cam. This reduces helps manage detonation at lean mix cruise conditions.
With Aftermarket Cams the EGR basically is irrelevant most cases
The EGR tube that extends down in to the manifold has basically no effects on airflow. The air moves along the outside walls of the intake not down the centers of plenum based on what I've read.
Back in 2000 we cut the tube off flush and that was worth nothing on the dyno.
The PCM uses EGR flow to reduce emissions and cool the cylinder temp so the mixture can be leaner for best gas mileage under cruise conditions in the cars with OEM EGR with stock cam. This reduces helps manage detonation at lean mix cruise conditions.
With Aftermarket Cams the EGR basically is irrelevant most cases
Don't really have anything to argue here, but as you go further down the road in modifications, like an LS6 or FAST air intake manifold, or longtube headers and off-road Y where emission connections are non-existent... the EGR is a waste of engine compartment space.
Not to mention, I would wager 99% of non-stock pre-LS6 manifold F-bodies deleted their EGR and AIR. I'm sure you're right about the minimal or non-existent gains. I know when they switched the intake manifolds in the F-Bodies to the LS6 they switched to a *less* effective camshaft, power wise. I have no idea if that's related to the EGR, but I know you DO GAIN TORQUE AND HP by switching to an LS6 manifold (with no EGR provisions) on a stock '98-'00 cam. So, yeah.
Last edited by SouthernRex; 04-08-2017 at 12:19 AM.
04-08-2017, 08:38 AM
#9
Where was the car titled originally? If in Virginia, it may have passed emissions without the EGR. (Everything else would need to be tuned really well.)
I recall that Virginia doesn't charge you for re-tests, so you could always get the thing fixed up, try without the EGR, and then if you fail for a gas that the EGR would mitigate - you could then put the system back in.
I recall that Virginia doesn't charge you for re-tests, so you could always get the thing fixed up, try without the EGR, and then if you fail for a gas that the EGR would mitigate - you could then put the system back in.
04-08-2017, 04:33 PM
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It was a Richmond va car. Don't have emissions there. I don't have the egr parts and I'm a little overwhelmed trying to figure out what i need. Where most people have a block off plate below the intake manifold, I don't have a hole there, it's just a plastic diamond shapeed thing. Plus my headers appear to have welded the holes instead of using block off plates as well. Any suggestions? I thought I saw someone selling their used egr with valves on here but can't find it anymore.
04-08-2017, 09:57 PM
#11
It was a Richmond va car. Don't have emissions there. I don't have the egr parts and I'm a little overwhelmed trying to figure out what i need. Where most people have a block off plate below the intake manifold, I don't have a hole there, it's just a plastic diamond shapeed thing. Plus my headers appear to have welded the holes instead of using block off plates as well. Any suggestions? I thought I saw someone selling their used egr with valves on here but can't find it anymore.
IF you can tune out the check engine light related to the EGR delete AND IF you won't fail the inspection visually if an inspector notices the delete, then you might be able to pass the sniff test with the engine as-is.
EGR reduces NOx gasses, which are formed at higher temperatures in the engine. One thing you could do to lessen the possibility of these forming is to make the engine colder - you could try installing a colder temperature thermostat, for instance.
04-09-2017, 09:23 AM
#13
The same type of car with the stock emissions gear on it. It sounds like the cost to convert your current car back to an EGR system could rival the better part of what it could be worth.
Although, a failed attempt at emissions may be worth a try if you can get the EGR code tuned out. Who knows? Maybe you will have a good day at the emissions station? If you try it, I'd definitely go in the morning, on a cool day, and run a low-temp thermostat in the engine. Those things should help reduce the NOx formation that the EGR system also fights.
If you wait and go in the middle of the summer on a 110 degree day with the stock thermostat, you will probably not have a good chance of passing.
Although, a failed attempt at emissions may be worth a try if you can get the EGR code tuned out. Who knows? Maybe you will have a good day at the emissions station? If you try it, I'd definitely go in the morning, on a cool day, and run a low-temp thermostat in the engine. Those things should help reduce the NOx formation that the EGR system also fights.
If you wait and go in the middle of the summer on a 110 degree day with the stock thermostat, you will probably not have a good chance of passing.
04-10-2017, 08:20 PM
#15
This is Northern Virginia. They actually sniff the tailpipe for emissions tests (not the OBDII BS scans that we enjoy in the rest of the country.) and they have state-licensed vehicle inspection stations. The consequences for defeating emissions are significant - not quite like, but in the same theme as California..
Now, I have seen that there's an exception to that rule. If the car is visibly blowing smoke, the inspector can hook it up to the sniffer.
Is this not the case? Please let us know - I'm in the process of a build now lol.
04-10-2017, 08:28 PM
#16
I'm curious about this, as I'm in NOVA, too. From what I've read, even on the Virginia DEQ website (the body that writes the test), is that OBD2 vehicles will be only be scanned for CEL/SES codes - only OBD1 cars will get the sniffer test.
Now, I have seen that there's an exception to that rule. If the car is visibly blowing smoke, the inspector can hook it up to the sniffer.
Is this not the case? Please let us know - I'm in the process of a build now lol.
Now, I have seen that there's an exception to that rule. If the car is visibly blowing smoke, the inspector can hook it up to the sniffer.
Is this not the case? Please let us know - I'm in the process of a build now lol.
I wonder if taping some green paper to the exhaust pipes might make the emissions tech less likely to stick the sniffer in???
04-10-2017, 08:54 PM
#17
That would make things smoother. My experience with this state is dated, so this would be worth researching and this would be even more reason to get the OBDII situation cleaned up and give it a shot.
I wonder if taping some green paper to the exhaust pipes might make the emissions tech less likely to stick the sniffer in???
I wonder if taping some green paper to the exhaust pipes might make the emissions tech less likely to stick the sniffer in???
My 2 ¢ - get the lights cleared through your tuner, go for the test, then let us know what happens. Worst case scenario is that it fails and you get two weeks to try again for $1. In all honesty, you bought the car from another party, and shouldn't be held accountable for mods you didn't know about. That said, no way I would try it if the car is pouring smoke, which shouldn't be the case unless something much more is wrong.
Best of luck!
04-11-2017, 04:29 PM
#18
Regarding the sniffer test, my 91 RS has to deal with that for many years.
The sniffer PPM limit is 220. An old car in good tune will test just as clean as a new car, IF the engine oil if fresh, clean air filter, pvc working correctly and in a good state of tune. My old RS with 276,000+ miles could score 8's same as a new car, the same thing it scored as a new car.
The sniffer PPM limit is 220. An old car in good tune will test just as clean as a new car, IF the engine oil if fresh, clean air filter, pvc working correctly and in a good state of tune. My old RS with 276,000+ miles could score 8's same as a new car, the same thing it scored as a new car.