Giovanhalen

Just found this article today. Was going to drain the antifreeze from my car for the summer since I plan to go to the drag strip several times. Was going to mix distilled water with hyper-lube until I visited their website to see if it would be a problem if some dex-cool mixed with the hyperlube. Now I am going be using tap water with hyperlube.


http://www.hyperlube.com/mc_images/c...ng_systems.pdf

ElkySS

iTrader: (6)

I've heard a lot of people tell me to only used distilled water with coolant. I think this misinformation started with people confusing cooling systems with serviceable batteries. Hell, I know guys that run straight tap water with no antifreeze and are just fine. Of course, I live in SE Texas so we might get 3-4 days a year below freezing.

Boxxx

I rather use distilled water and strip a small amount from the block and heads than to add a bunch of minerals and crap from using tap water, demineralized water is just as cheap as distilled if not cheaper so less than a dollar per gallon from Wally World or whoever your local grocer is. Why people don't want to spend the extra dollar or two for demineralized water to keep their cooling system clean is beyond me. Also for what it's worth I've never seen distilled water cause a problem, but I've seen tap water cause problems more times than I'd like to count...

kingtal0n

iTrader: (1)

Distilled water should go into anything you care about, electronics, cooling systems, appliances, you can also drink it. Atoms or molecules which can dissolve in water have a solubility maximum. For example if you start pouring sugar or table salt into water, the salt or sugar will dissolve until a threshold is reached and then no more can dissolve under that specific condition. It takes a LOT of salt or sugar to hit that condition, you can try this experiment at home safely. Salted water which is below that threshold is just as capable of dissolving more salt as un-salted water. In other words, it doesn't matter if you have a cup of distilled or tap water, they are both "ion hungry" and will dissolve more salt (or sugar, or whatever) until the threshold is met. The difference in the cooling system being that the water which contains more ions is more likely to conduct electricity and cause corrosive behavior associated with that activity.

I believe the pdf file you posted is somebody's attempt at selling a product, nothing more.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Junk/hyped information in that link IMO. I would much rather stick with distilled. The factory fill (GM Dexcool spec) includes 50% demineralized water added to 50% anti-freeze concentrate. My '98 car has seen nothing but this demineralized water for the last 19 years in its cooling system, and every single cooling system component is still assembly line original without a failure or leak. That's all the proof I need to dispel the "warnings" in that link.

ElkySS

iTrader: (6)

You can drink tap water too.

I think you guys are splitting hairs. Just change coolant at recommended intervals and you won't have any issues.

I'm very curious as to what problems you've encountered using a 50/50 mix of antifreeze and tap water.

Boxxx

I've never used tap water, it's other people that have and then the cooling system is full of deposits. Of course I've never come across a cooling system that was taken care of where they also used tap water. Like RPM WS6 my Firebird has had only Dex-Cool and distilled water mixed 50/50 over the last 21 years and it's the cleanest system I've ever encountered on an older car.

ElkySS

iTrader: (6)

But you've also regularly changed the coolant. Correct?

Boxxx

I've only owned it for a little over a year, but I flushed and refilled the system when I changed the water pump. The previous owner was also OCD on maintenance, it's the first time I've bought a car and didn't have to immediately change any of the fluids(or anything else for that matter) because the previous owner actually cared enough to keep up with everything.

ElkySS

iTrader: (6)

Thats my point. I doubt very seriously that using distilled water is having any effect on longevity. The only time I've ever seen deposits become an issue is when someone fails to replace the coolant. The anti corrosion properties in fresh antifreeze is what stops them from forming.

Boxxx

Tap water makes the coolant cloudy quickly though whereas distilled it stays nice and clear. It's under a dollar additional cost to every two gallons to use distilled water, so it's worth the peace of mind knowing the system will stay clean.

ElkySS

iTrader: (6)

It's just a whole lot easier no to have to go to the store to buy water every time. Especially since I've never seen an auto parts store sell distilled water. Nor have I seen a repair shop or dealership shop use distilled water for coolant.

2ToeRacing

iTrader: (5)

I have used distilled water in coolant for yrs in my motorcycle, had to do with aluminum block/radiator. I will be doing it to the Camaro because of that. I don't know the whole depth of it all I just know it works. So invest a dollar for some water and add your coolant....BAM....DONE

pantera_efi

iTrader: (1)

Hi Geo, you are CORRECT.

This is a great thread "lost" here to those who didn't pass FOURTH GRADE chemistry.

Water likes to be "happy" and it will do so dissolving the AL radiator/block/head.
This will continue until the H2O becomes Ion Balanced.

NOW, add the ability to STOP/MEASURE the cooling system voltage to your post replies.
Take your voltmeter connect one (-) probe to battery (-).
Take your voltmeter connect one (+) probe to the water coolant only.
MEASURE the voltage on the small mv scale, if over .1 volt, you have a GREAT PROBLEM. (cool engine operating)

One method I use is to fit a "Zink" in the block.
The Zink is installed into a block coolant drain port.
Another method is to "ground" the radiator core.

Thus one has stopped/measured for Electrolysis in the engine cooling system.

Lance

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

I generally agree that tap water is fine as long as the system is properly maintained, but I disagree with the idea that using distilled or demineralized in an anti-freeze mix is harmful or will cause "extreme damage" (per the link) in comparison. Fact is, the GM Dexcool spec calls for 50% demineralized water to be mixed with anti-freeze concentrate. A 50/50 coolant cannot be specifically labeled as "GM Dexcool approved" unless the water used for the mix is demineralized. If such water was harmful in this application, or if tap water was simply better, then the OEM spec would certainly call for it instead of demineralized.

cookseyb

I just tore down a 1999 5.3/4.8 that had been using water only, I will have to mill the 862 heads about .030 just to clear up the pitting from the electrolysis. the iron block isn't very pretty either. Iron, aluminum and water is a MESS!!

kingtal0n

iTrader: (1)

Tap water is absolutely horrendous, to drink or use, in anything. It may contain a myriad of substances including living organisms.


"corrosive water" can have multiple definitions, as there are multiple stages of purity and purification methods available for water, and it may be exposed to the atmosphere or not which affects it PH. Certain Aluminum alloys are capable of withstanding corrosive properties of water indefinitely (pure aluminum forms a protective oxide layer), while others erode rapidly. Water, engines, and aluminum alloys will vary from vehicle to vehicle.


Sacrificial anodes are often used in salt and fresh water applications where ions are present. Salt and natural fresh water contains ions, ions conduct electricity, ions facilitate electrical conduction and that is a way to 'corrode' metal. In order for the metal to behave as an anode it needs to be submersed in an electrolytic solution. More about anodes:
http://www.performancemetals.com/anodes/AnodeFAQs.shtml


-http://www.performancemetals.com/images/pdfs/Aluminum%20Anodes.pdf

Notice how it says, the saltier or more polluted the water, the more it will conduct electricity and the faster it will corrode the metal. Thus, the more pure water is, the farther you get from corrosion.


keep in mind:
1. the engine block, and radiator, is not clean, even when brand new. When you pour in any kind of "pure water" it will no longer be pure. The same can be said for when you drink it- the second it mixes with your saliva it is no longer pure, it will never reach your stomach as pure water, it will not cause cell lysis like it does in an isolated environment where single cells are surrounded by it.

2. Pure water has the highest resistance (OHMS) and that is one way to define it (very/ultra pure has a very high resistance, something like 18Mohm). One large danger to the automotive cooling system is electrical conduction through it's liquid, which is facilitated by ions, which lower water resistance when present. The more pure the water, the less likely it will cause erosion in the automotive cooling system.

3. The other major danger to the automotive cooling system is deposits, which can form from any impurity in the water, whether charged or not. For example, a bacterial colony might attach and grow on the engine block somewhere. Algae can live and multiply in there. Calcium and Magnesium can form deposits and build like rock "crystals". The point being, if you are pouring these things into the cooling system in the first place, then it is your own fault for doing so, and you should not be surprised when they start collecting around. The best defense to not having deposits form is to not pour these things into the cooling system with the water to begin with (do not use tap water which contains them).

4. Aluminum does not readily dissolve in water, like sugar or salt. If it did, half the cooling system would disappear instantly when you pour in the water, like sugar would. The type of dissolving we are discussing here is not the typical one where water molecules pull apart a substance through physically interacting with it- It is an electrical activity, it requires that ions be exchanged somehow, and present in the solution to begin with.


If you take anything away from this let it be that simply, the more polluted the water is, the more ions in the water, the faster the corrosion will occur.
Keep the cooling system well maintained, inspect and flush with distilled, use a little coolant for its anti-whatever properties (they probably balance PH and have other well deserved additives so the use of some coolant is advised).

http://www.performancemetals.com/ima...on%20print.pdf

SouthernRex

This is a super minor pet peeve, but you mean use a little anti-freeze. Coolant would be the generic term for your final mixture of liquids that does the cooling. It's the sum of what is actually cooling the system. Just like in phase change its refrigerant.

Boxxx

Not sure about you but I have to go to the grocery store once a week anyway, and you're only changing coolant every 100K miles or 3 years so it's not like you can't plan ahead. Or if you have to do it unexpectedly because of a failed water pump or what have you it's still not that hard to put going to the grocery store in that time frame. Yes most mom and pop shops use tap water and I cringe, dealerships(or the ones I've been with) use the o.e. 50/50 premix.

R6cowboy

iTrader: (3)

I've always used tap water mixed with antifreeze. If using demineralized water is even a tad better than tap water, I have no problem changing my ways. Like Boxxx said, I go to the grocery store once a week and walk right past distilled water every time, its not much of an inconvenience.