davith

iTrader: (9)

I will most likly be buying a clean black 99 T/A today. Is there anything I should look for in the car before I buy it? I used to have a 2004 GTO however had to find something less expensive and this is still a sweet looking fast car with an LS1! I am a little concerned becuase I have never had a sports car with an auto and this car is a A4. Is there any weak links with the A4's in these cars?

Any info is appreciated

Thanks,

Dave

Thule

the weak link is the A4 it self, the just.. dosnt seem to handle the power, but that problem has bin solved many time

davith

iTrader: (9)

Thanks, from what I have seen on here it has a 4L60E? Does anyone know what the stock capabilities of this transmission are? How does it handle a converter? I know I will not keep this car stock for very long…….

Intense

iTrader: (8)

You can do it but you will need a transmission cooler or a lot will go wrong really fast.

darrensls1

Look at my car. 12.4 @ 109 on the stock tranny. I have been running these times for two years now. I would say 100 track passes if not more and the transmission is still going strong.

The stock 4L60E should be fine with just bolt-ons (300-350 rwhp). A tranny cooler is a must and a shift kit is highly recommended with any stall upgrade.

Now if you get a little more serious in power (350-450 rwhp) then a stock 4L60E will be hit or miss. That's when a stage 2 or 3 built 4L60E from a sponsor becomes a good idea. If you get real serious in power (450-550 rwhp) a stage 4 / max level 4L60E/4L65E becomes a very good idea. Beyond 550 rwhp a max stage 4L65E is hit or miss IMO. That's when I would consider a TH400 or 4L80E as an alternative.

darrensls1

Another thing to consider is the gears. Look at the inside of the drivers door for a white sticker. Look to see if it saye GU2 or GU5. If it's GU2 then it has 2.73 gears which is good for gas mileage but bad for performance (especially off the line).

If it says GU5 then it has 3.23 gears which are actually pretty decent gears. I'm not saying to pass up this TA if it has 2.73's but just bare in mind that it'll make you a little slower and a little more likely to want to change them out sooner rather then later.

Good luck and post pics if you buy the car.

XpEdItIoUs

iTrader: (44)

Moding is addicting *Beware*

davith

iTrader: (9)

darrensls1

What kind of MPG do you get with your mods and a stall?

ChocoTaco369

the A4, in general, is the more reliable car than the M6. yes, the M6 is a stouter transmission, but the A4's driveline itself is more reliable. if the car is bone stock, the A4 will likely see 120,000-150,000 miles. in a full bolt-on car, the auto will likely easily see 100,000+ miles. the only time the auto becomes unreliable is when you go FI, heavy nitrous (spraying through shifts) or cam it and raise the shift points (duh, you're over 100 rwhp over stock!). RPM's are the A4's biggest enemy. if you up the shift points, it's only a matter of time before it grenades. in stock form, it can't spin much higher than 6,000 rpms before it burns up internally. it has high RPM lubrication issues.

if you want to go heads and cam or heavy FI, you will need a built 4L60E. however, in stock form, the M6's are a time bomb. the rear end isn't strong enough and neither are the clutches. M6's require much more maintenence because they break things much more easily. the driveline in an A4 car can carry you pretty easily into the 11's - some even 10's. the clutch and rear in an M6 can barely hold up to stock power under abuse, making the A4 a generally more reliable and cheaper to maintain choice.

davith

iTrader: (9)

Thanks everyone thanks for the info! I bought it today, Here is a link and yes I was able to talk him down on the price a little:

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...ce=&cardist=15


I can't wait to start modding it with the money saved on my GTO payments!

Blk97WS6

iTrader: (19)

I disagree with a couple things. Yes, the M6s are obviously harder on the rear-end because of the shifts, but the part about a A4 being more relieable and cheaper to maintain isnt all true.
Yes, the stock clutch's in the M6 suck, and require a stronger clutch for anything more then bolt-ons.(cam, H/C, FI, nitrous, etc.). But look at an auto. If you want to cam an auto your going to have to swap out the Stall(most people still stall it, even if they are keeping the stock cam), with that you MUST have a trans cooler, and most people decide to install a shift kit at the same time. Also a T-56 can handle a HELL of alot more abuse with just a stronger clutch, then stalled 4l60E could anyday. So to me a A4 is just as expensive, if not more, then an M6 in a car with anything more then bolt-ons.

Also about the M6 breaking the 10-bolt. If you put a sticky tire on any F-body, regardless of the transmission, you are rolling the dice. The 10-bolt is a ticking bomb waiting to explode. Yes, an auto is going to be a little easier on it, but you cant relay on that, thats why most people go ahead and swap in a 12-bolt, 9", etc. anyway. An auto with slicks, shift kit, and 4000rpm stall is going to launch on the 10-bolt, just as hard as a 4k dump in an m6. Its only the shifts that are going to be a little harder on the rear in an M6.

-Derek

r3dberry

wow that is a good deal. stealerships here in california would be asking $14,000 for the same car

darrensls1

About 13 city and maybe 20-22 HWY. Not great but not bad either. The highway mileage is no different then it was stock since my converter locks up at 40. But my city mileage went down a tad after the stall since it revs higher at slower speeds and I use a little more throttle to get moving.

I could probably squeeze a 24 or 25 out of the highway if you could convince me to drive 60 mph

davith

iTrader: (9)

Looks like I lucked out it has the 3.23 gears………..

Thule

i must disagree, my opinion is the the 4L60E is not reliable at all.. in almost every A4 car that i hafe bin araound they have bin nothing but trouble.. the m6 car does brake the Rear end more.. but i rather want broken driff then auto..

maybe if you drive the A4 like a normal car the auto is reliable, but who does? not me at least..

ChocoTaco369

with an M6, you can break the rear and the clutch in stock form. that's $3000+ in parts and install for a 12-bolt/9 inch/S60 and a decent clutch. if you want a textralia, it could run you $4,000+ for parts and install. with an A4, you're unlikely to ever have trouble with the rear end. not only that, but most people don't cam their cars. most people keep them stock or stockish. that means that you're much less likely to actually break the trans, meaning an A4 will likely never break anything. when an A4 does go, you can get a stalled, built trans that will hold more power than an M6 AND be still gentler on the rest of the drivetrain, installed for $2500, sometimes less. this is what i'm basing my opinion on. you're less likely to break anything with an auto, and when something does break, it's cheaper in total.

not many people with A4's break the rear, even with drag radials. stock 10-bolts have seen 10's many a time. i'd have more confidence in a 10-bolt behind an A4 w/sticky tires than i would an M6 with street tires...but that's just my opinion. M6's still beat the **** out of the 10-bolt during shifts. autos don't.

ChocoTaco369

you must know a lot of those guys that put full bolt-ons and a cam in their car, effectively raising the horsepower level 100rwhp+ over OEM, then increase shift points 800+rpms and say "duh, why did my auto break? what a piece of ****."

look, most people are complete idiots when it comes to modding. how many of these people's A4's broke because they modified engine internals? the transmission WAS NOT DESIGNED to hold 400rwhp @ 6800 rpm's. the documentation on the transmission SPECIFICALLY SAYS MAX RPMS 6,000! this is what breaks them. they can't get lubrication over 6,000 rpms because the OEM pump spring isn't good enough, among other things.

anyone that mods their engine internals, then complains that their A4 breaks is an absolute idiot and deserves every bit of headache they get. you can't increase power 33% over stock, increase shift points 1,000 rpms and keep your driveline stock. you need to be smart and keep the rest of the car strong. this is why so many people on this site are pushing 400-450+ rwhp and are still stuck in the 12's. they're obsessed with peak numbers, that is all. they'll have a power curve that looks like mount everest and a stock driveline, then bitch that their car isn't turning the times it should and things keep breaking. no kidding?

stock 4L60E's consistently live over 150,000 miles. full bolt-on and stalled 4L60E's consistently see 100,000+ miles. that's a ~50rwhp increase over stock - and they take it like a champ. bad transmission? only to the ignorant. would you rather have a mustang automatic?

/rant

Blk97WS6

iTrader: (19)

You cannot say that. Breaking the 10-bolt varies from car to car. I snapped the carrier in half, and broke 3 teeth off the ring-gear in my A4 LT1. This was on street tires, and the only mods were a 2800 stall, and borla cat-back.

On the other hand, the 10-bolt in my nearly 400whp(without spray) M6 LS1 w/4.10s, is STILL holding up after taking alot of abuse. And a good friend of mine, has run many mid 11 second passes on his 10-bolt with a M6 and 4.30s.
By the way, the only thing ive done with my trans, is replace the original 70k mile clutch, with a LS7 clutch, and LS2 flywheel for a cost of $450, and now it can hold my power, even with spray, all day long.

Im not trying to say that a M6 isnt harder on the rear, because it is. But i want to point out that just because you have an auto, you cant run 11's with the stock rear all day long. You cannot say that all 10-bolt's are going to hold 10 and 11 or even 12 second passes with ease, just because a few people have been lucky.

Anyway, this doesnt need to get into a pissing match, because we all know that the 10-bolt sucks ***, no matter what motor/trans/mods you have.

darrensls1

I sure don't drive mine normal. 10-15 track passes once a week with a lot of 30 mph wot runs getting onto highways inbetween. Add the times in my sig to the mix and nearly full weight. Then factor in that this abuse is being done to a stock 4L60E (not even a shift kit) with 77K on the clock.

No problems here. Of course that could be because I understand and avoid the three main killers of a stock 4L60E.

1). RPM's. I keep my shiftpoints at 6,200 and my stock tranny thanks me.

2). Heat. 24K B & M supercooler was cheap and effective insurance.

3). Manual shifting. I keep her in D or OD at all times and let the computer do its job. I also avoid a 3 to 4 shift at WOT.

I'll take my unreliable 4L60E anyday of the week and twice on TnT Friday night

darrensls1

And I have run mid to low 12's with mine on 1.69-1.71 60's for over two seasons and well over 200 track passes. Add to that mix the fact that many people have gone 11's and 10's on a 10 bolt through an auto for multiple seasons and you start to see a pattern here.

And many M6 guys with just basic bolt-ons and drag radials have busted them while running high 12's. M6's can't preload the drivetrain like autos can and that is why they brake more often behind them.

Not true. The 10 bolt is the perfect rearend for my car because it can take 1.6X 60's all day without flinching and does it more effiecently then a 12 bolt could. It's not just a few people. 10 bolts have been lasting for years behind thousands of A4's ranging from 13 second bolt-ons to 10 second heads/cam/N20 cars.

Here are some 10's on the stock 10 bolt:

https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...highlight=bolt

If 5 out of 100 autos breaks the 10 bolt while running 12's with 1.7 60's and 5 out of 100 M6's don't break the 10 bolt while running similair numbers then that proves nothing more then there are exceptions to the rule.

But it doesn't change the rule.