ShiznityZ28

iTrader: (11)

atv went 8.8 on a 275 drag radial at 3450 this year. LOL

ShiznityZ28

iTrader: (11)

I thin khis current setup is off jack ***! BTW i bet he doesn't melt anything my way and even if he ends up close to yours( i doubt much) he didn't lose anything byut a set of plugs or 2 and a few lbs of nitrous. your way he might lose a motor!

ShiznityZ28

iTrader: (11)

To many people think timing is hp and it is to a point but then it goes the other way. hell waynes car had 4* of timing in it this year on both kits. and it loved it.

I helped a guy this year with a 150 shot. took 2 degrees out and took 1 fuel jet out and picked up .3 in et. THe "kit" jetting ad timming is never perfect. just safe.

LS1 SPEED

iTrader: (22)

I have been told by some really good friends which run NMCA/NMRA + other race events to do the following .....

less timing
colder plugs
leaner A/F

I have always pulled a lot of timing and ran cold plugs with 0 issues with plugs and great performance.

for example I pull 6-8 degrees on a 150 shot and run TR7 with 100-110 fuel in both my car and my fathers

A/F is the 11.8-12.2 range

safe? sure! I have no reason to lean on them hard and chance hurting anything for a little better number to brag about.

I know from reading that ATV and Shiz have done lots of testing and found out what works and doesn't. I'm not bashing on you BLKHAWK1, but you do seem to run more on the edge IMO and most don't like to go there.

Robert56

iTrader: (2)

Obviously you do not understand the technology behind pulling timing. below is some insight in the quote. Once you getting your motor timed correctly for a larger shot, yes you can lean that bad boy out and your not going to raise cylinder temps. Most guiys run to rich because of safety and having to much timing. A correct tune includes the proper amount of timing pulled per size hit, and leaning it out allows the full power potenial of the added n2o to be had. By the way, the EGTs are great as a tuning helper, however, you must first get a proper tune on the car to see what correct EGTs should look like for any given combo. trying to tune a nitrous motor by using EGTs alone is a crap shoot. Anyway, here's an explanation I tried my best to put together to make it understandable why it's so important to pull timing on the spray:


There's more to tuning a nitrous motor once we get to the 200 and above area than many realize. keep it safe and start small, and above all, don't be afraid of asking questions. I still do and have been doing N2O cars for 30 years. Man the technology with the late model EFI cars is changing so fast, no one knows it all. that's why some of the Fastest cars are on here, it's a group effort on knowledge, with everyone helping in some way. I like the dry technology area, Shiz and ATV are hard core drag racers and know the tune stuff. with that said, I would, if I was you, look at your tune again and re think your approach, and you'll be quicker/faster we can almost guarantee. No ones busting your *****, it just is important to get the correct info out for the beginners, that's how we all learn. I have some nice pictures of some 300 shot pistons/rods and TR6s with to much timing if you would like to see them.
Robert

Robert56

iTrader: (2)

...and a dry shot.
Robert

ShiznityZ28

iTrader: (11)

ATV and i know a little but we learned alot over the last 2 years from nmra.nmca.yellowbullit and Jeff proc. one of the worlds best EFI Nitrous guys. Unlike some guys we like to help people and try to steer them form things we have done and hurt stuf.

We run waynes car @ 12.2-12.5 normally and less timing and colder plugs than most would use. But ATV made at least 300 hits on 350+ shot this season.

ShiznityZ28

iTrader: (11)

Robert your gona love atv's setup next year. Jeff Proc is Plumbing 3 dry kits on one of Cary's new CNC'd carb style intake. Im liking this dry stuff more and more....

Robert56

iTrader: (2)

Wow, i want to follow along? You guys doing any threads anywhere that we can follow along? I think he did very good with the current set-up and his time holds the second fastest dry LSx on the planet. Yea, I really think the dry tech has a grand future.

We can now progress the stock injectors also through the PCM. I am doing my dual stage fueled all by the stock PCM, and a 3rd stage on a button (stg1 DP Dry Stg 2 & 3 Plate dry). Everything is being controlled through the stock PCM: progressing stg 1; fueling all stgs in progression, pulling timing and running big injectors. Trying to get one of the new tunnel ram style Edelbrock new intakes through Steve @ Induction Solutions and want to DP dry that intake as well. We have heard good things about this intake straight out of the box and it's only about $400. Hopefully in the next couple weeks i will have the dyno results of all of the above, though not going for record numbers just making sure it works correctly. We want to see the stged timing, no need for an after market staged timing pull box anymore either, and fueling in action.
Robert

ShiznityZ28

iTrader: (11)

Nice .Well be watching the stock computer stuff. i got a few customers who don't ahv the money for an aftermarket setup and I always thouht the stock computer could do it if you just played with it enough.

Well post something up for ATV's car.We are rewiring the entire car min tub, and loosing some weight. We are trying to get it to 3200 race weight. We have a 275 drag radial race just about every weekend here local. need 5.4 's to be competative.

BLKHAWK1

iTrader: (30)

First of all EGT's are not the only factor in tuning nor did I ever say so, I was using EGT to get my point across about plug heat range, and timing witch everone has over looked. cooler cyl. temps can handle more timing, And thank you for the "101 tuning guide" but I believe we are beyond that. I keep stating "IF" the engine tune up is correct and thats a big if. as far a correct info, I believe this conversation has now become for the advanced tuners.

Robert56

iTrader: (2)

Fair enough. I am not familiar with your knowledge level, however, my style I usually get into some of the details due to those reading along. On the EGTs, we first must establish a correct tune to establish temps for this combo. After that yes they are good indicators of what is going on. My opinion on your tune is that it is not correct. However, you have not stated what your total timing is, but I am assuming that you pull 3° from a standard stockish 26°. well my friend, I would love to see your logs and your dyno print outs. That's too much timing for a 300 shot and TR6 and pump gas, not only on the safety point, but certainly on power making. You say years, i have a hard time believing that unless the number of runs/pulls is not that great. that motor would not last a season of a couple hundred passes. Been there done that and have the carnage pictures to prove it: 285rwhp shot, 26°, TR6 plugs and pump gas cost me a LS6 motor. There is absolutely no room for any issue to arise with a tune like that, it's not correct. I new this, but had bumped the hit up that day, and went into my tune to pull an additional 4° of timing from my 22° but added it instead and bent a rod, broke a ring land and ate 6 of the 8 plugs.
Robert

BLKHAWK1

iTrader: (30)

I never said I run pump gas? you think my tune isn't correct but as you stated that you don't know my total timing and obviously don't know what fuel I'm running nor does anyone else, but everyone jumps the gun and starts saying im gonna blow it up. lol you don't think I've got a pile of broken parts of what not to do? anyone who dares to go faster than the next guy has a pile of broken parts

BLKHAWK1

iTrader: (30)

BTW this is a wet shot, but I love DRY SHOTS!

LS1 BU

iTrader: (13)

Some good info on this thread. Seems like dry shots have come a long way.
With the hsw interface I've been leaning towards dry with big injectors. Seems to be a better way of doing it. I've allready had a fuel solenoid good bad and hurt a motor. I also been fighting issues of a lean spike on activation. I think dry might be in my future.

Like I've said I'm no expert but learning more and more. I've followed advice fro ATV,Robert,ShiznityZ28 and it has helped me with my setup.

ATVracr

iTrader: (5)

Having a EGT and knowing if its telling you your going in the right direction is 2 different things.
All the top teams now have 02 sensors in every hole. (more accurate)

I would agree that I am novice but what does that make you?

.

You never answered the question.... how fast is your 300 shot TR6 car?

ShiznityZ28

iTrader: (11)

LOOK your setup may work my argument was with your assesment from the OP. he has 26* of timing and tr-6's going from a 150 to 200.

First off the 26* is to much for what he already has. He should pull 2 more at least. Its probably ok cause what ever out of the box kit probably has him jetted to 11.0-11.4
.
Once he pulls 2 degrees out and takes 1-2 jet sizes out of the fuel it will run harder on the shot he has. the 6 is borderline if he has a good running motor. once he adds 50 more nitrous and gets the 40 from cleaning up the other tune a 9 will be real close. probably an 8 will work but get it right first.


Again this is all a guess but a educated one from the **** ton of nitrous cars we have or built. Thats why i told him to get some plugs and get a reading.

ATVracr

iTrader: (5)

I would never post up and tell people to do the stuff we do.
We know we are close to the edge and most guys dont want to be that close.

ShiznityZ28

iTrader: (11)

Some times to close .LOL

LS1 SPEED

iTrader: (22)

and you never have that I've seen, but you do offer some good knowledge and have admitted it took hurting things to know where to go and not to

your ***** fly's and it's not by luck, but more so by learning from good people & trial and error