3rdGenFireFox

Hello world

I have some questions about propane + nitrous.
I've done quite a bit of research but i have not been able to find reliable information on jetting for the propane. So I'm going to test out some ideas I have, unless NX or NOS can post up some real world numbers they have


I've found these number's some guy posted up about 11 years ago which he made with a speadsheet. Not to sure on the numbers:/


I've done some chemistry equations and come up with this.

With n20 as the air it takes it to 9.98 to 1 stoichiometric air-fuel ratio for propane and 9.382 to 1 for gasoline.

Based on the above, I plan to shoot for 8parts nitrous per 1 part propane to keep it safe...
To test before trying it on the car, I'm going to put a nitrous bottle and propane bottle on 2 different scales and "run" the system into the air, as you would on the car, and shoot for 8 parts nitrous sprayed per 1 part propane sprayed by weight. Basically tune the fuel jetting until i use 2 oz of propane per pound on nitrous.


This will be on 82 firebird running a built 400 small block chevy with a pro comp plate and NX Iceman nitrous solenoids for both fuel & nitrous.
2 10lb NX nitrous bottles and a steel nitrous bottle converted over to propane use.

going to progressively ramp up from a 50 shot to a 250 shot.

Why propane instead of Gasoline?
-Dual cooling of nitrous and propane
-The 110 octane
-No fuel pooling/better atomization
-No need for fuel regulation since the bottle is fuel pump, pressure regulator and fuel tank in one package.


To Nitrous Express: I love your products and was wondering if you guys have plans for propane or currently have any product or info on this subject?




Soooo what do you guys think and if anyone has anything on the subject, feel free to add to this.

Fbodyjunkie06

iTrader: (10)

Awesome.

Try it and let us know how it works.

NitrousExpress

iTrader: (4)

It is possible to use the propane as the fuel. We have not done any research personally on using it as the fuel, However one of our dealers specializes in doing it and from what I understand it is a 1:1 mixture however i do not no that for a fact. The only reason that we haven't done it is because a lot of people do not like the fact that there will be a pressurized fuel source next to a pressurized oxidizer. But like i said we do have a dealer that does it.

Here is a link to his website.
http://www.btrviper.com/

I'm sure if you were to give him a call he will be more than happy to help you out.

Trey

Sadden

Cool thread. Keep us updated.

w3s1c0a5t

iTrader: (3)

Couple of things to add.


There is a need for fuel pressure regulation. Just because it is under pressure doesnt change that. You will still need a regulator and if you want it to run consistently the pressure will need to be whatever you are using during flowing our it will not be close.

Fuel does not really "pool". Fuel also atomizes very nicely when you spray 1000psi worth of nitrous through the stream. Which is why you will notice the way the fuel outlet and nitrous outlet share a similar relationship on plates nozzles etc.

More octane is always better but that can come from e85, or simply higher octane conventional fuels.

The biggest reason why you do not see it is there really is not much of an advantage over easier to tune fuels. Have you any idea how to read a plug when using propane as the enrichment fuel?

It is certainly a cool idea and a feasible one, but it is not as simple as you are wanting it to be.

Also NX and NOS will be zero help on this. I would not start this unless you are comfortable doing nitrous tuning and reading plugs.

3rdGenFireFox

thanks for the info

I've been looking into the BTR jetting but found they run a dry propane setup for which he recommends 1:1 jetting for the base line jetting and tuning the fuel down until the plugs read right.

As for the fuel-oxidizer mix, that's why I bought a steel nitrous bottle just in case worst case scenario.


For pressure regulation, nitrous doesn't have regulation (other then solenoid orifice size) so i figured propane wouldn't need it. If the pressure drop in the propane tank is too drastic then I will have to regulate it, but I don't think it will be a problem since I'm running a bottle heater with a 200 psi switch.


Tuning is going to be the big challenge but I have a wideband and I'll be plug chopping often.

hobbesnmina2001

iTrader: (1)

There are pressure variations in in lpg tanks similar to nitrous pressure variations, similar is not the same because they each have different characteristics liquid pressure and vaposization rates so unregulated the output flow of each will vary. People do try to regulate nitrous pressure thats why ZEX has a regulator, Nano has a bottle pressure compensating system and bottle heaters where created.
You don't have to run regulators but the results will not be optimal or consistent and if you run lean for a tad too long you will not like the results.
LPG has been used, but the variations in pressure have given users a challenge in part because pressure regulators can creep and crawl meaning they don't react quick enough for the short time you need them. Nano works because it is controlling the downside flow via the upside pressure and even though it is not as drastic as bottle pressure loss during a run it may still lag a tad in pressure, just not enough to erase it's bennefits. Both liquid gases will vary in pressure differently depending on the volume of liquid in the vesel and temperature. Both will drop in pressure as soon as liquid volume is being removed via boiling and latent heat of vaporization.
The reason many prefer gasoline, e85, or methanol is because liquids do not change state as easily before delivery so it can be more of a constant to manage delivery if there are no liquid dropout issues. The issue with a liquid gas like LPG is that you now have 2 liquid gasses, each with different charecteristics to manage during delivery off.
You can make it work, however it does not mean t works easier, better or without issues.