Wanna Save GM?
11-15-2008, 05:04 PM
#21
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One of the two is going to be gone. GM or the unions. It won't be long until other companies do the same thing. You can only dictate how much you are paid, what benefits, and how many hours you work for so long and then the guy providing your job figures out that he can't afford you but he can still get employees if he gets rid of you.
11-15-2008, 06:40 PM
#22
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First of all, Unions do not Dictate what a Company pays for labor or Benefits!! Everything is Negotiated between the Company and the Union!!! If the Company is not happy with the current pay and Benifit package, Then, when a contract expires they need to negotiate a better Contract. By no means am I saying that UAW are underpaid, But they are paid on the basis of a contract that was negotiated between the Company and the Union. This being said, If your employer came to you and asked you to take a 20% pay cut and concessions on your benifit package how would you react?? Lets make sure that the Company shares some of the blame, Not just the Rank and File.
Funny you mention that. My brother is a truck driver represented by the Teamsters and he just had to take a 27% pay cut and reduced medical insurance. His company said take it or leave it. He lives in Michigan and had no choice but to take it.
As for the UAW, the workers want what any other person would want for their own job. The best pay and bennefits possible. Unfortanetly most unions are resembling politics more than ever. A select few are making money hand over fist while pulling the wool over the eyes of the actual workers.
11-15-2008, 07:27 PM
#23
One of the two is going to be gone. GM or the unions. It won't be long until other companies do the same thing. You can only dictate how much you are paid, what benefits, and how many hours you work for so long and then the guy providing your job figures out that he can't afford you but he can still get employees if he gets rid of you.
Unions arn't going away, and if it wern't for the unions the business that we work for would be paying us as little as possible while filling their pockets full.
So lets break this down, the UNION is the people, the people are the middle class, so you mean to tell me that its the middle classes fault that the big 3 are failing, GIVE ME A FRIGGIN BREAK!
And like someone else already said the union doesn't dictate the wages or pensions. Its a contract that is voted on between the union and the employer.. And I guarantee you that the Big 3's top guys are cutting a Fat hog.
11-15-2008, 11:04 PM
#24
First of all, Unions do not Dictate what a Company pays for labor or Benefits!! Everything is Negotiated between the Company and the Union!!! If the Company is not happy with the current pay and Benifit package, Then, when a contract expires they need to negotiate a better Contract. By no means am I saying that UAW are underpaid, But they are paid on the basis of a contract that was negotiated between the Company and the Union. This being said, If your employer came to you and asked you to take a 20% pay cut and concessions on your benifit package how would you react?? Lets make sure that the Company shares some of the blame, Not just the Rank and File.
Unions arn't going away, and if it wern't for the unions the business that we work for would be paying us as little as possible while filling their pockets full.
So lets break this down, the UNION is the people, the people are the middle class, so you mean to tell me that its the middle classes fault that the big 3 are failing, GIVE ME A FRIGGIN BREAK!
And like someone else already said the union doesn't dictate the wages or pensions. Its a contract that is voted on between the union and the employer.. And I guarantee you that the Big 3's top guys are cutting a Fat hog.
So lets break this down, the UNION is the people, the people are the middle class, so you mean to tell me that its the middle classes fault that the big 3 are failing, GIVE ME A FRIGGIN BREAK!
And like someone else already said the union doesn't dictate the wages or pensions. Its a contract that is voted on between the union and the employer.. And I guarantee you that the Big 3's top guys are cutting a Fat hog.
11-15-2008, 11:35 PM
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Unions arn't going away, and if it wern't for the unions the business that we work for would be paying us as little as possible while filling their pockets full.
So lets break this down, the UNION is the people, the people are the middle class, so you mean to tell me that its the middle classes fault that the big 3 are failing, GIVE ME A FRIGGIN BREAK!
And like someone else already said the union doesn't dictate the wages or pensions. Its a contract that is voted on between the union and the employer.. And I guarantee you that the Big 3's top guys are cutting a Fat hog.
So lets break this down, the UNION is the people, the people are the middle class, so you mean to tell me that its the middle classes fault that the big 3 are failing, GIVE ME A FRIGGIN BREAK!
And like someone else already said the union doesn't dictate the wages or pensions. Its a contract that is voted on between the union and the employer.. And I guarantee you that the Big 3's top guys are cutting a Fat hog.
I don't work for a union - I never have. My company IS paying me as little as possible... to keep me from working for someone else! If I think I can make things better for myself or my family, I will.
The point is that I am paid because I make the company profitable. When that is no longer the case or I feel that profit is not being shared with me, I will be gone.
When people join together in unions (hense the term - union), they cede their individual rights to the group. Those who contribute the most cannot be rewarded and those who contribute the least cannot be let go. What you end up with is, at best, a mediocre workforce more concerned with its own self-interest than the profitability of the business.
If union contracts were structured to pay for performance and they incented their members to be more productive, then we wouldn't be having this conversation - would we?
!
11-16-2008, 09:04 AM
#26
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I would certainly NOT disagree with this statement. I just wanted to make the point that Unions are not ALL the problem. It is just amazing to me that the Unions and workers get so much of the blame when a Company has financial problems. It certainly couldn't be that all the upper management make salaries in the 6 figures and yearly take bonuses in the 7 figures as well as when they **** up a company and get fired, they still get their golden parachutes of millions of dollars!!! The good times as well as the bad times need to be shared equally.
11-16-2008, 09:16 AM
#27
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I don't work for a union - I never have. My company IS paying me as little as possible... to keep me from working for someone else! If I think I can make things better for myself or my family, I will.
The point is that I am paid because I make the company profitable. When that is no longer the case or I feel that profit is not being shared with me, I will be gone.
When people join together in unions (hense the term - union), they cede their individual rights to the group. Those who contribute the most cannot be rewarded and those who contribute the least cannot be let go. What you end up with is, at best, a mediocre workforce more concerned with its own self-interest than the profitability of the business.
If union contracts were structured to pay for performance and they incented their members to be more productive, then we wouldn't be having this conversation - would we?
!
The better members definately get the short end of the stick in this situation.
It does seem that you are saying the same thing in both your comments. SELF INTEREST seems to be the common theme.
I think we all want our respective companies to do well.... This would seem to insure job security, Which for me would be considered self interest.
11-16-2008, 10:22 AM
#28
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I don't like unions, never have, never will! Like Don said, they don't reward performance. They used to be necessary in this country....not sure what purpose they serve aymore. And they do share in this problem.
But, they are not the root cause. Managment (or better MIS-managment) is the number 1 problem. The top guys are only worried about filling their pockets. At ANY cost! They don't care what happens to a company 10 years from now, they will be gone. While most of the workers will still be there.
CEOs lay people off, out source, whatever it takes to turn a short-term profit so they get their mega million $ bonus & then slither off to another company.
The other problem now is the oil companies & their inflated prices. Blame the Arabs or the guys in Texas, they all screwed us. But the Big 3 DID make changes & started making economy cars. But they also continued to make the cars WE buy!
Anyway, I still think this is a good idea. Bail outs are socialism, people buying cars or stock is capitalism. To quote Warren Buffet, buy stock in companies that make products you like & use....
But, they are not the root cause. Managment (or better MIS-managment) is the number 1 problem. The top guys are only worried about filling their pockets. At ANY cost! They don't care what happens to a company 10 years from now, they will be gone. While most of the workers will still be there.
CEOs lay people off, out source, whatever it takes to turn a short-term profit so they get their mega million $ bonus & then slither off to another company.
The other problem now is the oil companies & their inflated prices. Blame the Arabs or the guys in Texas, they all screwed us. But the Big 3 DID make changes & started making economy cars. But they also continued to make the cars WE buy!
Anyway, I still think this is a good idea. Bail outs are socialism, people buying cars or stock is capitalism. To quote Warren Buffet, buy stock in companies that make products you like & use....