sgilbert1967

iTrader: (3)

OK guys,
Im getting ready to build and install my first LS engine, it will be replacing my 505ci BBC in my 67 Camaro. Of coarse I have been obsessing and contemplating about 1000 variables from engine design to stall selection. Before I decided to do the swap, I was just going to add a 4l80e to my current combo, so while I know its not needed behind a 408ci I am probably stuck with it. I plan to buy a Yank4000 or similar converter for it.

So looking at tuning options, I recently had to move due to health reasons. Where I lived before there was a local shop dealing in LS building, tuning, and harness making/swaps. However where I live now ( Conway, Arkansas ) I havent found any shops to that level. so contemplating my options here ( and please im new so if my assumptions are wrong by all means point them out and why ).

As it stands my plans are probably a stout 6.0 ( or all forged 408 ) with aftermarket pistons/rods to open up my cam combination with a set of LS3 heads ive already sourced. initially I plan to run the edlebrock l92 intake ( maybe even with a known good carb for break in ) with a tb and/or elbow/tb with 1 7/8th headers. Cam somewhere in the range of a 23x/24x 61x/63x with a 112 ( if i run the edelbrock ) and greater lobe separation if I run like an LS3 intake. Its a mid 10 sec car with 1.4x 60 on 275/60 tires now FYI

1. As I did not get a PCM I have to source a PCM. Then I have to source getting a swap harness built for my combination ( remember I will be driving a 4l80e with it too ). Then I would have to send it off to get a start up tune and vat disabled. Then once I get running I would have to get it for real tuned somewhere or multiple attempts of mail order tunes ect. Then if i add nitrous or turbo another out of pocket for tune...This method to get up and running appears to be the more cost effective solution but as ive had my car for 20 years it occurs to me long term combo changes would require me to get software such as HPTuners and learn it as no one in my town I know does this to keep from constantly paying someone. In addition and correct me if I am run say I want to make a n20 pass, there is no input on a factory PCM to apply spark/fuel maps based on said input so I would have to load a n20 tune up, a street tune up, race tune up ect? The price of the HPtuners for instance adds to the initial investment

2. Enter the Dominator EFI, to my knowledge and please correct me if im wrong, is the only EFI system that can also control my 4l80e within the same box. So i get the main unit, main power harness, injector harness,, 4l80 harness, and the LS1 kit. I then fire up using supplied base maps and it self learns. I change something physically and it learns. I can trigger events and apply maps accordingly such as arming a n20 solenoid. I mean of coarse its more robust but as a newb it occurs to me there is much more versatility and the learning features could bail the novice out. While costing more initially or coarse might I save money being autonomous until i feel like i get it nailed then head to the chassis dyno once...when i factor in long term it seems the better investment...especially if I ever go away from LS ( I am used to 650ftlbs instantly hoping i can live with a SBC again ) the Dominator EFI could be used on any combination I may put in the future. If I stay LS initially ill run some n20 with an eye towards a rear mount turbo later....

SO for a novice tuner ( electronic I got quite of bit experience with programmable timing, wide band, and carbs ) and new LS builder/owner do you think my reasoning of the Dom EFI being a more costly initial investment but possibly wash out before all is said and done?

thanks

LSX Power Tuning

iTrader: (4)

Its hard to compare a factory pcm setup to any aftermarket one. All the aftermarket ones will have way more options than a factory but you also pay more for it. The biggest misconception about the holley, bs3, fast xfi is they are "self" tuning. They allow you to run CL using wide band sensors vs CL with stock O2 sensors like the factory. If you dont have good base maps or data in the beginning it may not be able to correct for it. There is a learning curve for any of the tuning options, but if you're willing to spend the time to learn you can get your setup tuned safety.

sgilbert1967

iTrader: (3)

Yea I figure there is a threshold where you get it close on CL and it attempts to
auto correct. However I did see a video where they just shot nitrous dry I think it was a 100 or 150 shot and in learn mode the Dom EFI CAUGHT it and adjusted the fuel maps HAHa...thats pretty sick

BLK02WS6

iTrader: (2)

I have tuned both, and prefer the factory PCM for something like what you are doing. In my opinion, the factory PCM has much better ability to nail down the driveability. I don't like the way the idle tables work in the Holley. Maybe it is just that I am more familiar with factory PCMs and tuning software, but that is my take on it. If I were doing what you are doing, I would use a factory PCM and an EFILive custom operating system - that would help out with either nitrous or forced induction down the road... just my 2 cents...

sgilbert1967

iTrader: (3)

Thanks for your input, I know this terribly frustrating when its old hat, but would you mind elaborating just a little more on the subject and why you think EFIlive is the way to go. I believe you to be saying the factory algorithms once modified for the cam and induction changes are more efficient at maintaining drivability and that makes sense with the amount of R&D GM probably has, but when you say custom operating system by EFi live do you literally mean it doesnt just flash parameters or metrics but there is a way to replace the entire OS on the PCM?

Shawn

sgilbert1967

iTrader: (3)

Question, since i plan to use the Edelbrock L92 intake with a 4150 TB I guess that pretty much forces Speed Density, which suite is better in that scenario EFILIVE or HP TUners.

I looked up some of the data and now I understand custom operating systems via efi live, it also looks like there are modules available that allow realtime scanning of the power train running that EFILive will adjust ( so basically learning ) and I see that with the COS you can indeed trigger maps with inputs awesome...Does HP Tuners have similar capabilities? Im a little foggy on what I need to purchase to get up and going with EFILIVE barebones...

Is there a particular desirable year/version of GM ECM?

LSX Power Tuning

iTrader: (4)

Give me a call tomorrow (number in sig below) and I can answer all your EFI Live & HPT questions. It will be much easier to explain on the phone than trying to type it all out.

samdogmx

iTrader: (14)

I have the holley in mine & I love it. I am by no means a very experienced tuner & I've got it up & running in no time.

As you know its a bit more up front, but since you dont already have a stock computer & harness, that saves you a bit. Plus then your paying someone to tune it everytime you make a change. Also think about all the additional products you dont have to add-on such as a 2-step box, injector driver box for low imp injectors, boost controller, progressive nitrous controller. etc....

bmf5150

Love my Holley efi,im a noob at running and with a little help from friends got my car running great!! If you go holley get 2 wide band sensors, my car ran far better with two rather than one

Slowhawk

iTrader: (12)

I agree. The factory computer always drives,idle's better. We do tuning on FAST ect. While they work and most people won't notice, I notice the difference.

68 SS

iTrader: (23)

I have the Holley Dominator set up, IMO go with the Dominator and don't look back. The factory ECU will work but it has its limits as well. The holley EFI will idle as well as the factory ecu you just have to tune it as with any system. The Holley EFI will allow you to expand as your combo changes and in the end is not that much more cost wise than a stand alone harness, HP tuners, and factory ecu.

stock48

iTrader: (17)

I have the Holley HP and overall Im pretty happy with it. I agree with the above about the idle tho. I can get this thing perfect and so much as change air filter or turbo and idle is a surging pos and has to be completely retuned. Go up in elevation a few thousand feet and same thing. Those that think it idles and drives as well as a well tuned factory pcm must not know what excellent driveability is. I do however feel the holley's ability to hold command afr at wot is well worth the picky idle and occasional hickup. Im running 20 psi on a 2 bar and thing just keeps the afr right where I have it set for 210 kpa.

jimmyblue

iTrader: (11)

I still feel that if I were swapping into an older vehicle
with a non-electronic transmission, I'd just go carb and
HEI. And I'm comfortable with tuning.

Since you want an automatic I'd recommend a HD van
powertrain, harness, PCM - cable throttle and 4L80E,
6 liter iron block that just wants better pistons if it's
LQ4 (or not - maybe you want boost or tolerance of
crappy gas).