flyingbrick88

To be honest its you that seems butthurt (01SS)

I didn't name anyone, was relatively vague and yet you still associated my comment with your remarks and felt damaged enough to send me a PM, HAHA.

Ps, To the original poster- keep it up. I may not understand what you are doing or have a use for it BUT I definitely do agree with your comments about these engines lack of cost effective software and i feel that any available information on the subject is a great step in the right direction.

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

No, the issue comes when you take the time to be honest, arent shitty about it, people retaliate, and others feel inclined to be upset along with them. Its the internet. Its a place of massively different opinions. I wish the guy the best of luck, he sounds intelligent and im sure he will accomplish what he is after. The point of discussion in his two threads was WHAT exactly it was he was trying accomplish and the usefulness of it, which is what I chimed in on.

PeteS160

Your right, something like this is doesn't help anyone.......
The following video's demonstration is for for education and research purposes only



The commercial companies clearly have made every thing in the PCM accessible with their software. Wait.....nope they left out a few things.

And it's not like any one's ever had to re-license a pcm before.........

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

I tune cars. One further, I tune cars for money, one further I teach people to tune their cars. You're preaching to the choir. The real negativity is scanning right past a genuine compliment and focusing on what you don't want to hear.

truckdoug

iTrader: (25)

so the point is to spoof a vin so you can tune a pcm without paying for credits?

BUT THATS ILLEGAL BRO

gametech

iTrader: (1)

A tool is a tool. You can use a shovel to dig up a potato for french fries, or to cut off a guy's head. Let's see if a tool even materializes before lamenting the possible ill uses.

PeteS160

Have you ever had a pcm crash while writing a calibration and left the pcm corrupted? When this happens the OS is still 100% recoverable but information such as the vin, serial number, and segment numbers for each system can be corrupted. If you use a tech 2 to recover and flash the pcm in a lot of cases it will alter the serial number and flash the latest calibration segments into it. Depending on your tuning tool you may of may not be SOL after this happens and have to re-license the SAME pcm again that you've already paid to tune once. Now how is that fair?

In terms of legality none of this any different then using any commercial product to setup and run a pcm in a standalone setup. Serial number, Vin number, Calibration number, Segment numbers, even the checksum values are all just arbitrary bits of data with in the PCM that make up it's program.

Every pcm is factory locked, the minute you unlocked the pcm with any aftermarket tuning tool you you've done the same thing..... you bypassed the lock put in place by the manufacturer. What I've show being done is no different. I am not in any way interacting with another companies product; now that would be illegal.

If you look at any of the 2017+ controllers you'll notice that you have to contact the company of your tuning tool to have them provide you the information to unlock the pcm. It's because GM changed the security algorithm in these pcm's and the formula for the seed/key has not yet been discovered/hacked so a MDI is used and spoofed into flashing a pcm to "see" what the key that matches the seed being used is so that the company can send you the information needed to unlock and tune your pcm is.

I'm just a two bit hack and what I'm doing is child's play compared to what a number of people; that are still around, are capable of creating.... but won't. I have spoken in great lengths with a number of these people that are more than capable of writing full read/write programs and at commercial quality levels of programming.... some of them have created such program....and never released them while others abandoned the project because it didn't live up to their expectations or they moved on and sold their hobby car that was the inspiration for their work.

Look at TunerPro RT, it's capable of tuning car's up until the E38 pcm and only a couple of real xdf files have ever been released for the LS pcm's and those where limited to the 512K pcm version. I have yet to come across an Xdf for a 1mb LS pcm, I'm sure someone has created at least one in-depth Xdf for a 1mb version..... but was unwilling to share it. It's the mentality of greed and perfection that's kept the LS pcm form ever being opensource tuned.

PeteS160

An Android data logging solution is progressing fairly well. The UI is setup for testing purpose as I verify the formulas for each data pid and work out the maximum possible refresh rate of the data pids. This clip was done on a "Black Box" Vortec 5.7 pcm since it was easy.....the Elm bluetooth signal in the truck reached my computer room and I was able to start/stop the truck with my remote start to get data readings off a running vehicle. It's 20 degree's outside so give me a break

Refresh rate on the black box pcm using a BAFX Elm(19 bucks on Amazon) now it's a bit slower then the LS pcm/ ObdLink MX combo I'm testing with on a bench but it's still able to pull 7 to 8 readings for each data pid every second

With a 1mb pcm and the MX device I've been able to pull more then 20 readings per second on each pid with out getting any data collisions on the bus...now that may be a bit excessive for most but you never know LOL





Sample from the data log recorded on my phone from the black box pcm

Log uploaded to https://www.datazap.me/u/loud/log-15...hg=2-3-4-5-6-7

fst100

iTrader: (5)

interesting project you are working there pete! keep it up, I'm interested in the results. I too wish tuning/logging/flashing via smartphone be available but also be able to open to multiple brands (gm/ford/Toyota/audi etc). i'm currently tuning via laptop and scan/log via bafx Bluetooth obd2 with my smartphone.

PeteS160

What app are you using to scan and log with?

fst100

iTrader: (5)

Torque app pro
I typically use the real time parameter readings via the gauges. like you had mentioned there is a slight lag less than half a second and long as I don't use more than 7 parameters per window it wont bog.

PeteS160

Now I know Torq can create a data log file but I have never really looked into it....I just don't like the app. Have you ever used the log Torq records and used any type of log viewer to go back over the data or do you just do it in real time?

fst100

iTrader: (5)

it saves them as *.csv so I can view the logs when I email it to my laptop and view in excel. I mainly use their app in real-time since it has a feature in its display to show min/max on parameters that I need to check such as KR, RPM, and MAF (hz).

the torque app sometimes glitches when saving logs time to time but I haven't used it lately/often as I should.

WreckerOEF

Pretty good idea, I just would like to add that flashing via Bluetooth wouldn't be as preferred as using a MicroUSB to OBD2 cable. The 2.4Ghz signal of BT just leaves too much potential data to be lost during transfer as well as the slow read-write speeds.

I've used a similar thing before with flashing my transmission on a BMW via Android app, as well as rewriting BCM's via Bluetooth.

gametech

iTrader: (1)

I would never even think of trying a write via bluetooth. Then again, I don't even use the WIFI for any mods on a Mercedes SDS because there is too much RF interference in my neighborhood. I have yet to find a PCM that is cheap enough to trust to a non-cabled connection.

truckdoug

iTrader: (25)

PeteS160

And when I buy a pcm it is my property to do with as I see fit. If I flash my pcm with a tech 2 and it changes something that I don't like...well I can just change it back.

So if I license a pcm with tuner brand X and a tech 2 changes the serial number during an update you think I should pay to license the same pcm again? Well that's what they want you to do....fork out even more money for something you've already paid for.

No...... I think I'll just change the serial number back to what it was prior to the tech 2 update.

A good example of companies manipulating the system to their advantage is shown with the E38 pcm. Segments 7 and 8 in the E38 contain boot sector....they also contain the serial number. The reason you can not take a 2008 Pcm truck pcm and flash say a 2012 car OS onto it is because the boot sector OS would also need to be changed....and that would compromise the ability they have to license the pcm's if people had access to those sections.

Did you know the E38 can NOT be fully bricked to the point it's unrecoverable? But wait......recovering the pcm requires flashing blocks 7 and 8 so let's just pretend like these blocks can't be flashed and tell people they need to buy a new pcm and buy another license to tune it.

qweedqwag

You go Pete.

pantera_efi

iTrader: (1)

Hi Pete, do you have the ability to change the order/call the order of the .csv columns ?

I will use my Log Viewer with more features than Datazap.

This may be interesting to some here ?

Example : Over Speed "time spent" log able to be selected, min/max, etc.

The E-38 crashes when Flashed (power interrupt), thus no .comm's.
Does this PCM have a internal J-TAG header ?

Lance

PeteS160

Yes the data can be put in any order the way I have it setup to parse.

As for the E38 as far as I know it does not. I personally have very little experience inside the e38 style pcm but have a couple of contacts that have gone as far as reverse engineering every circuit in them. I have also seen a home brew style interface and program that can recover the E38 even if you plug pulled it in the middle of a full OS write flash. Unlike the LS1B style pcm(99-07) the E38 bootloader can not be corrupted to the point it's unrecoverable regardless of what you do during a flash.