Possible bad tune?
01-08-2018, 10:50 PM
#1
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Possible bad tune? I have a 2000 trans am I got tuned on Nov 28 and I have been having some problems with idling.
Mods are ls6 Intake, 5.3 ported heads, full bolt ons, 232/234 lsa 112 comp cam, 3200 stall 4l60e
First I feel like the idle is pretty high when it’s warmed up. It’s idling at 975-1000 rpms. In park or drive at red lights.
Sometimes when I start the car, or put it in reverse the rpms will drop as low as 400, go back up, go back down, then go to normal.
When driving and coming to a stop I’ll be around 10 mph and the rpms will go to about 1200-1500 and then go down. (Very weird to me) only happens at 10 mph
Should I be contacting the tuner?? It was a dyno tune, paid $500 not even 2 months ago. Do I have to repay him?? New to tuning so I wasn’t sure if you get free service if he didn’t do idle right
Mods are ls6 Intake, 5.3 ported heads, full bolt ons, 232/234 lsa 112 comp cam, 3200 stall 4l60e
First I feel like the idle is pretty high when it’s warmed up. It’s idling at 975-1000 rpms. In park or drive at red lights.
Sometimes when I start the car, or put it in reverse the rpms will drop as low as 400, go back up, go back down, then go to normal.
When driving and coming to a stop I’ll be around 10 mph and the rpms will go to about 1200-1500 and then go down. (Very weird to me) only happens at 10 mph
Should I be contacting the tuner?? It was a dyno tune, paid $500 not even 2 months ago. Do I have to repay him?? New to tuning so I wasn’t sure if you get free service if he didn’t do idle right
01-08-2018, 11:06 PM
#2
TECH Senior Member
If it's been running like that since the tune, I'd demand a refund! Or at least tune it until it runs right! Is he very far from you?
01-08-2018, 11:12 PM
#3
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
01-09-2018, 06:00 PM
#4
If you really want to have some leverage on your side, ask him for a copy of your tune, then post it here.. There are some really smart people that check these forums that can look your tune over. If your "tuner" does not know what he is doing, it will be very obvious to a knowledgeable tuner. Post it up here and you will get feedback very quickly.
If your "tuner" does not want to give you a copy of your tune, that you paid for, with your hard earned money-that's a big red flag.
If you have someone local to you that has HP Tuners they can pull a copy of the tune from your computer and then post it up for review..
Idling is one of the hardest things to get right in a tune. For those guys that have a lot of experience under their belts it's not so hard. For newbs like myself, it seems like idle tuning is most difficult-especially when dealing with cams that have 230 degrees duration, or more. I'm not trying to defend your tuner with these statements, just telling you the facts. A common trick that some tuners do with mid, to large, cams is raise the idle speed to cover up a poor, or crappy, tune. Some larger cams will require a higher idle regardless of how well they are tuned. So.. Finding someone that knows what they are doing, that can get the idle lower, and have no issues such as you are experiencing is the challenge.
My sons truck was "tuned" by 2 guys previously. It still would intermittently stall when sitting at a red light.. Timing was all over the place as the computer tried to control the idle speed (GM HOT Cam).. After the 2nd time of me paying someone to "fix" it I finally bought Hp Tuners myself and began reading all that I could. The last guy that "tuned" my sons truck raised the idle to 950RPM's!!!!!! After only playing with HP Tuners for a couple weeks, and reading (over 60 hours of reading books, forums, and watching videos), I was able to get his idle down to 650, with no stalling, and no ignition timing hunting, and man that cam sounds SOOO sweet now. Before the idle was so high that when my son let off the gas and was rolling up to a red light he said it felt like he was fighting the engine with the brakes. Now, you let off the gas and the engine just drops right back down to idle (like it should).
Here's a test you can try.. With the engine idling, at operating temp, in Park, rev the motor up to about 1800RPM, then get off the gas and watch the RPM's as they fall. Is there a point where the tach needle slows, or stops, and then begins falling again as it heads towards idle rpm? If so-it ain't tuned right! The needle should fall all the way back down to idle with no slowing points in between the RPM you were holding at, and idle RPM. The longer it hovers, or hesitates, before getting back to the desired idle RPM, is an indication of how far off the idle tuning is. Idling requires getting the spark tables correct, idle air corrected, and VE table correct, and MAF tables correct. If any of them, or multiple of them, are off, you WILL have idle issues. This is what I have discerned so far as a complete NEWB.
If your "tuner" does not want to give you a copy of your tune, that you paid for, with your hard earned money-that's a big red flag.
If you have someone local to you that has HP Tuners they can pull a copy of the tune from your computer and then post it up for review..
Idling is one of the hardest things to get right in a tune. For those guys that have a lot of experience under their belts it's not so hard. For newbs like myself, it seems like idle tuning is most difficult-especially when dealing with cams that have 230 degrees duration, or more. I'm not trying to defend your tuner with these statements, just telling you the facts. A common trick that some tuners do with mid, to large, cams is raise the idle speed to cover up a poor, or crappy, tune. Some larger cams will require a higher idle regardless of how well they are tuned. So.. Finding someone that knows what they are doing, that can get the idle lower, and have no issues such as you are experiencing is the challenge.
My sons truck was "tuned" by 2 guys previously. It still would intermittently stall when sitting at a red light.. Timing was all over the place as the computer tried to control the idle speed (GM HOT Cam).. After the 2nd time of me paying someone to "fix" it I finally bought Hp Tuners myself and began reading all that I could. The last guy that "tuned" my sons truck raised the idle to 950RPM's!!!!!! After only playing with HP Tuners for a couple weeks, and reading (over 60 hours of reading books, forums, and watching videos), I was able to get his idle down to 650, with no stalling, and no ignition timing hunting, and man that cam sounds SOOO sweet now. Before the idle was so high that when my son let off the gas and was rolling up to a red light he said it felt like he was fighting the engine with the brakes. Now, you let off the gas and the engine just drops right back down to idle (like it should).
Here's a test you can try.. With the engine idling, at operating temp, in Park, rev the motor up to about 1800RPM, then get off the gas and watch the RPM's as they fall. Is there a point where the tach needle slows, or stops, and then begins falling again as it heads towards idle rpm? If so-it ain't tuned right! The needle should fall all the way back down to idle with no slowing points in between the RPM you were holding at, and idle RPM. The longer it hovers, or hesitates, before getting back to the desired idle RPM, is an indication of how far off the idle tuning is. Idling requires getting the spark tables correct, idle air corrected, and VE table correct, and MAF tables correct. If any of them, or multiple of them, are off, you WILL have idle issues. This is what I have discerned so far as a complete NEWB.
01-09-2018, 08:08 PM
#5
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you really want to have some leverage on your side, ask him for a copy of your tune, then post it here.. There are some really smart people that check these forums that can look your tune over. If your "tuner" does not know what he is doing, it will be very obvious to a knowledgeable tuner. Post it up here and you will get feedback very quickly.
If your "tuner" does not want to give you a copy of your tune, that you paid for, with your hard earned money-that's a big red flag.
If you have someone local to you that has HP Tuners they can pull a copy of the tune from your computer and then post it up for review..
Idling is one of the hardest things to get right in a tune. For those guys that have a lot of experience under their belts it's not so hard. For newbs like myself, it seems like idle tuning is most difficult-especially when dealing with cams that have 230 degrees duration, or more. I'm not trying to defend your tuner with these statements, just telling you the facts. A common trick that some tuners do with mid, to large, cams is raise the idle speed to cover up a poor, or crappy, tune. Some larger cams will require a higher idle regardless of how well they are tuned. So.. Finding someone that knows what they are doing, that can get the idle lower, and have no issues such as you are experiencing is the challenge.
My sons truck was "tuned" by 2 guys previously. It still would intermittently stall when sitting at a red light.. Timing was all over the place as the computer tried to control the idle speed (GM HOT Cam).. After the 2nd time of me paying someone to "fix" it I finally bought Hp Tuners myself and began reading all that I could. The last guy that "tuned" my sons truck raised the idle to 950RPM's!!!!!! After only playing with HP Tuners for a couple weeks, and reading (over 60 hours of reading books, forums, and watching videos), I was able to get his idle down to 650, with no stalling, and no ignition timing hunting, and man that cam sounds SOOO sweet now. Before the idle was so high that when my son let off the gas and was rolling up to a red light he said it felt like he was fighting the engine with the brakes. Now, you let off the gas and the engine just drops right back down to idle (like it should).
Here's a test you can try.. With the engine idling, at operating temp, in Park, rev the motor up to about 1800RPM, then get off the gas and watch the RPM's as they fall. Is there a point where the tach needle slows, or stops, and then begins falling again as it heads towards idle rpm? If so-it ain't tuned right! The needle should fall all the way back down to idle with no slowing points in between the RPM you were holding at, and idle RPM. The longer it hovers, or hesitates, before getting back to the desired idle RPM, is an indication of how far off the idle tuning is. Idling requires getting the spark tables correct, idle air corrected, and VE table correct, and MAF tables correct. If any of them, or multiple of them, are off, you WILL have idle issues. This is what I have discerned so far as a complete NEWB.
If your "tuner" does not want to give you a copy of your tune, that you paid for, with your hard earned money-that's a big red flag.
If you have someone local to you that has HP Tuners they can pull a copy of the tune from your computer and then post it up for review..
Idling is one of the hardest things to get right in a tune. For those guys that have a lot of experience under their belts it's not so hard. For newbs like myself, it seems like idle tuning is most difficult-especially when dealing with cams that have 230 degrees duration, or more. I'm not trying to defend your tuner with these statements, just telling you the facts. A common trick that some tuners do with mid, to large, cams is raise the idle speed to cover up a poor, or crappy, tune. Some larger cams will require a higher idle regardless of how well they are tuned. So.. Finding someone that knows what they are doing, that can get the idle lower, and have no issues such as you are experiencing is the challenge.
My sons truck was "tuned" by 2 guys previously. It still would intermittently stall when sitting at a red light.. Timing was all over the place as the computer tried to control the idle speed (GM HOT Cam).. After the 2nd time of me paying someone to "fix" it I finally bought Hp Tuners myself and began reading all that I could. The last guy that "tuned" my sons truck raised the idle to 950RPM's!!!!!! After only playing with HP Tuners for a couple weeks, and reading (over 60 hours of reading books, forums, and watching videos), I was able to get his idle down to 650, with no stalling, and no ignition timing hunting, and man that cam sounds SOOO sweet now. Before the idle was so high that when my son let off the gas and was rolling up to a red light he said it felt like he was fighting the engine with the brakes. Now, you let off the gas and the engine just drops right back down to idle (like it should).
Here's a test you can try.. With the engine idling, at operating temp, in Park, rev the motor up to about 1800RPM, then get off the gas and watch the RPM's as they fall. Is there a point where the tach needle slows, or stops, and then begins falling again as it heads towards idle rpm? If so-it ain't tuned right! The needle should fall all the way back down to idle with no slowing points in between the RPM you were holding at, and idle RPM. The longer it hovers, or hesitates, before getting back to the desired idle RPM, is an indication of how far off the idle tuning is. Idling requires getting the spark tables correct, idle air corrected, and VE table correct, and MAF tables correct. If any of them, or multiple of them, are off, you WILL have idle issues. This is what I have discerned so far as a complete NEWB.
01-09-2018, 08:46 PM
#6
TECH Senior Member
Keep us posted! AND put the tuner's name here as a heads-up to all of us IF he doesn't cough up your tune.
01-09-2018, 09:51 PM
#7
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
He’s very well known here in tx.. I talked to another tuner about the issue and he said he will fix it at a discounted price since he feels bad. Apparently he wasn’t surprised that I’m not able to get ahold of the tuner. He doesn’t think it’s a “bad tune” per say but that it was rushed.
Trending Topics
01-09-2018, 10:30 PM
#9
TECH Senior Member
Well, I hope you get it resolved. Sounds like the "new" tuner is a pretty good guy for being willing to right someone else's wrong. We need more people like that!
01-10-2018, 12:50 PM
#11
I agree with what Brandon says. That's why I will NEVER again pay someone $$$ to *attempt* a tune in a single session.
I was datalogging STFT again this morning on my LQ9/80E combo. This is week 4, or maybe 5?, that I have been "polishing" the tune. I want my FT's to be <2% and I WILL get there!
We are all dying to see what that tune looks like so please post it up when you get a chance.
I was datalogging STFT again this morning on my LQ9/80E combo. This is week 4, or maybe 5?, that I have been "polishing" the tune. I want my FT's to be <2% and I WILL get there!
We are all dying to see what that tune looks like so please post it up when you get a chance.
01-10-2018, 06:16 PM
#12
I agree with what Brandon says. That's why I will NEVER again pay someone $$$ to *attempt* a tune in a single session.
I was datalogging STFT again this morning on my LQ9/80E combo. This is week 4, or maybe 5?, that I have been "polishing" the tune. I want my FT's to be <2% and I WILL get there!
We are all dying to see what that tune looks like so please post it up when you get a chance.
I was datalogging STFT again this morning on my LQ9/80E combo. This is week 4, or maybe 5?, that I have been "polishing" the tune. I want my FT's to be <2% and I WILL get there!
We are all dying to see what that tune looks like so please post it up when you get a chance.
+- 5% is good enough.
01-10-2018, 07:35 PM
#13
Subeone posted "you will never get there. +- 5% is good enough.
WHAAAAAAATTTTTT!!!! So you mean I'm already done and I've been chasing this mythical 2% or less trim #... Thanks.. Just when I thought I knew what I was doing you come along and thump me on the head. At least you saved me posting later with "can't get my fuel trims to <2%" Ha ha. It's all good!
WHAAAAAAATTTTTT!!!! So you mean I'm already done and I've been chasing this mythical 2% or less trim #... Thanks.. Just when I thought I knew what I was doing you come along and thump me on the head. At least you saved me posting later with "can't get my fuel trims to <2%" Ha ha. It's all good!
01-10-2018, 08:25 PM
#14
TECH Senior Member
Subeone posted "you will never get there. +- 5% is good enough.
WHAAAAAAATTTTTT!!!! So you mean I'm already done and I've been chasing this mythical 2% or less trim #... Thanks.. Just when I thought I knew what I was doing you come along and thump me on the head. At least you saved me posting later with "can't get my fuel trims to <2%" Ha ha. It's all good!
WHAAAAAAATTTTTT!!!! So you mean I'm already done and I've been chasing this mythical 2% or less trim #... Thanks.. Just when I thought I knew what I was doing you come along and thump me on the head. At least you saved me posting later with "can't get my fuel trims to <2%" Ha ha. It's all good!
01-10-2018, 10:04 PM
#16
TECH Senior Member
01-14-2018, 09:29 AM
#17
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wanted to give a little update. Original tuner never did call me back. I have been trying for weeks now prior to posting on ls1tech. At first I didn’t want to bug him, but I paid and now I feel like he pushed me to the side. I found a new tuner that said he will work with me and give me a good deal. He believes from what I describe that something in the tune is off. He’s going to spend 2 days tuning it to figure out what’s going on. Hopefully all this will be worked out by this coming Wednesday!
01-14-2018, 10:07 AM
#18
TECH Senior Member
I would tell THE WORLD what a lousy tuner the first guy is/was! What he did is not right. And then ignoring your calls... FRAUD!
01-14-2018, 12:40 PM
#19
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well I was trying to give him a chance to make it right and also I want to make sure it’s his fault for the tune. Which I will find out this week!
01-14-2018, 01:22 PM
#20
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Howell & Fenton MI
Posts: 11,145
Likes: 0
Received 15 Likes
on
15 Posts
Man this sounds like what I more or less went through a few years ago lol. Long story short i had a dyno tune by a very reputable well known shop that I wasn't happy with. Ended up going with a no name independent tuner who does it on the side, and it's now so much better. Sometimes you have to wonder how the big names get such a good rep lol