Anyone willing to help an F-Body out?
03-20-2019, 03:02 PM
#1
Anyone willing to help an F-Body out? After too long of a wait, I am now at the point of needing help with my tune. To put it short, 408 Solid Roller 265/272 106 lsa, M6 .410 Spool, Wide Band 02's with AEM Digital Wideband meter. (Use MAF currently, see in previous HP Tuner OS Speed Density 3x and Final MAF 1 Bar - I'm a little lost here)... All tuning previously dyno tuned in Houston, which are the base tunes I am using now. New Texas Speed PRC 247's (increase from 330 CFM to 360 CFM @ .750) Now I'm lean, Go figure!!! I'm learning here based on what a speed shop did for me where I unfortunately did not take good enough notes back in 2008/2009. I'm new to the tuning side. Car runs, idles, can drive it but really want to get the AFR under control. On my Innovate Motorsports LM 1 the Afr shows 15.7, jumps to 20.1, bounces 18, 16, 19, 13. 5 under 75% throttle.... Consistent with AFR meter on the pillar....
03-20-2019, 09:02 PM
#4
Probably not. I'm just getting this thing running and learning this system... Trying to understand where the last tuners left off and now not trying to re-engineer my car backward by installing OEM 02's unless something has changed.... I see on other graphs people showing pictures have way more information reporting than I do at this time. I need to look into the WIdeband O2 channels missing. I know I set up the Innovate Motorsports LM 1 Channel and viewed data but did not show in my log...
03-21-2019, 03:42 PM
#7
Stupid question, but since I'm super new to this and do not want to mess up a heavily modded 408, is the best way to adjust the STOICH AFR target from 14.63 to 13.5 and let other tables adjust? Or is there a better place or way to do this? Again, I am beginner starting out...
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03-21-2019, 06:15 PM
#8
12 Second Club
The other tables won't just automatically adjust. The PCM might *try* to compensate, but I think the base fueling will be too far off. I'm still too new at this to offer any good advise, but I think @Kfxguy was trying to say that you need to multiply the fueling table by 1.05. That will add 5% fuel to the entire table. From what I have seen, you need to get the fueling right before messing with anything else. That means changing the fueling tables, not the STOICH AFR.
03-22-2019, 01:21 AM
#9
TECH Fanatic
Don't change your stoich settings. Leave it at 14.63, OR you can bump it down slightly to say 14.55 or something like that. Certainly don't set it at 13.5. Under idle/cruise etc you want to target stoich. You said you are using a MAF, which is easy to tune. However, I would recommend tuning your VE table first in the normal way. You said you also have a WB, so get this input added to your scanner ASAP.
Looking at your scan I can already see you are lacking a lot of inputs. Add the following (at a minimum) to your PID list for inputs you are scanning.
Cylinder Airmass
Knock Retard
Dynamic Airflow
Injector Puslewidth
Now I haven't updated to the new software as of yet because it disables my old tune files on this computer for some reason, so I can't look at that for now. But Looking at the log tells me you are running in speed density, Open Loop. Your fuel trims are not active, which is normally how we tune the MAF. Can be used to tune VE but a WB is better for both.
So your fueling issue is going to be on the VE table since it is the default for Speed Density tunes. This also means the PCM is going to reference the Low Octane table for spark too. To see if your MAF is disabled in the tune check under Engine Diagnostics>Airflow. If the MAF fail frequency is set to 0 you are in speed density. Anyway, maybe I'll update my software later and pray it doesn't mess up my other files, but I already tried it a few times and it didn't work too well. Then and only then could I actually look at your tune and see what's up.
If you are hitting 20:1 AFR don't get into the pedal until you have a handle on how to tune the fuel. Most add 15% across the VE table and go from there. It's better to be rich than lean while tuning it. Your VE table will be under Engine>Airflow>General>Main VE. Highlight the entire table and multiply by 1.15. Then add those other inputs to your scanner, and go through the normal VE tune procedure.
There are a TON of write ups on this site even on how to tune VE, MAF, set up the scanner and so forth. Plenty of info on here. Let us know if you get stuck.
Looking at your scan I can already see you are lacking a lot of inputs. Add the following (at a minimum) to your PID list for inputs you are scanning.
Cylinder Airmass
Knock Retard
Dynamic Airflow
Injector Puslewidth
Now I haven't updated to the new software as of yet because it disables my old tune files on this computer for some reason, so I can't look at that for now. But Looking at the log tells me you are running in speed density, Open Loop. Your fuel trims are not active, which is normally how we tune the MAF. Can be used to tune VE but a WB is better for both.
So your fueling issue is going to be on the VE table since it is the default for Speed Density tunes. This also means the PCM is going to reference the Low Octane table for spark too. To see if your MAF is disabled in the tune check under Engine Diagnostics>Airflow. If the MAF fail frequency is set to 0 you are in speed density. Anyway, maybe I'll update my software later and pray it doesn't mess up my other files, but I already tried it a few times and it didn't work too well. Then and only then could I actually look at your tune and see what's up.
If you are hitting 20:1 AFR don't get into the pedal until you have a handle on how to tune the fuel. Most add 15% across the VE table and go from there. It's better to be rich than lean while tuning it. Your VE table will be under Engine>Airflow>General>Main VE. Highlight the entire table and multiply by 1.15. Then add those other inputs to your scanner, and go through the normal VE tune procedure.
There are a TON of write ups on this site even on how to tune VE, MAF, set up the scanner and so forth. Plenty of info on here. Let us know if you get stuck.
03-22-2019, 02:04 AM
#10
TECH Fanatic
Tell you what man. I found a few videos on YouTube but after watching I see this is still an area that is lacking. The one video I found had some errors and didn't cover everything to turn off either. I've already been debating doing some guides and sharing some of my knowledge on this subject and tricks I've learned over the years. I also have an abundance of time since I am currently overseas, with a pretty easy job.
I have my scanner here, and obviously my laptop and plenty of old logs. I also have a camera, and am now downloading some editing software. I will make this the first video I cover, get straight to the points and cover a true "how to" as best I can for you and the rest of the community.
I am going to work on this today, and with any luck I will post it later once I am finished editing and all that stuff. So I guess prepare to hear my silky voice walk you through this lol. It's only 10am here right now so I have all day...
I have my scanner here, and obviously my laptop and plenty of old logs. I also have a camera, and am now downloading some editing software. I will make this the first video I cover, get straight to the points and cover a true "how to" as best I can for you and the rest of the community.
I am going to work on this today, and with any luck I will post it later once I am finished editing and all that stuff. So I guess prepare to hear my silky voice walk you through this lol. It's only 10am here right now so I have all day...
03-22-2019, 02:11 PM
#11
Tell you what man. I found a few videos on YouTube but after watching I see this is still an area that is lacking. The one video I found had some errors and didn't cover everything to turn off either. I've already been debating doing some guides and sharing some of my knowledge on this subject and tricks I've learned over the years. I also have an abundance of time since I am currently overseas, with a pretty easy job.
I have my scanner here, and obviously my laptop and plenty of old logs. I also have a camera, and am now downloading some editing software. I will make this the first video I cover, get straight to the points and cover a true "how to" as best I can for you and the rest of the community.
I am going to work on this today, and with any luck I will post it later once I am finished editing and all that stuff. So I guess prepare to hear my silky voice walk you through this lol. It's only 10am here right now so I have all day...
I have my scanner here, and obviously my laptop and plenty of old logs. I also have a camera, and am now downloading some editing software. I will make this the first video I cover, get straight to the points and cover a true "how to" as best I can for you and the rest of the community.
I am going to work on this today, and with any luck I will post it later once I am finished editing and all that stuff. So I guess prepare to hear my silky voice walk you through this lol. It's only 10am here right now so I have all day...
Excellent and thanks (to all). Thanks for the advice on the channels needing to add and more additions if possible. I have way too many mods to go backwards in any way. Because I took long to get this back on the road, we know where I am.... I paid big bucks to have this car built and in 2008 / 2009 believe it to be cutting edge (at the time). Here is a list of mods: 408 (LQ4) Solid Roller (265/272 106 lsa) Original Cylinder heads - ETP Stage 3 (862's) street/strip - re-ported and polished - big mistake!!!!. New cylinder heads (2017) Texas Speed & Performance 247's increased CFM to 360 @ .750 inch lift!!! Lunati Solid Rollers, Callies Crank & Rods, Polydyne coated Wiseco pistons, rods, and rod bearings specifically for direct port NOS Octane on Demand 250 to 400 shot, separate 2 gallon fuel tank (for 116 octane NO2 runs), LSX 90 NW 90 TB, Kooks 1 7/8 headers V-Banded at collectors @ Dynoflo Outlaw muffler, single drop at rear seat and over the axle legal exhaust, Moser 12 bolt 410 spool, M6 - T-56 rebuilt, PST CM drive shaft, Innovate Motorsports fuel pump, 50 lb injectors. Suspension & other mods include UMI Chrome Moly K-Member, Upper & lower control arms, torque arm, transmission bracket, panhard bar, rear lower control arms. QA1 front and rear shocks, medium duty springs, Wideband 02's. AEM// auto meter NO2 - FUEL and Wideband AFR, MSD digital Shift and RPM light, Short throw shifter, SLP Line Lock, Air plane switches for N02 and 2nd fuel tank activation, 6 Point roll cage by DTP (Disturbing the Peace - Houston) 5 Point Harnesses. drilled rotors and hawk pads, Engine built by G&G Performance (Tomball Texas) Intake, N02, top mods and dyno tuning by Latemodel Racecraft out of Houston. I purchased HP Tuners MPV1 Pro back when my car was built, At the time just wanted a Street tune and Strip tune I could change on the fly - and would have worked great, except.... All in all I understand tough times hit the guys at LMR and I am sad to see them go. I sincerely hope Steven (Worm Boy) and the guys can some how turn things around...Would really like to talk with Steven to get better details on my car. Anyone have any contact info on LMR out of Houston? Their website is down and no one answers their phone. I'm sure I missed a mod or two but I believe we can get the idea. Funny thing is I do not see anyone from the 2008 days I knew back then...
So, I'm open to suggestions & ideas... thanks again,
03-22-2019, 09:57 PM
#12
Don't change your stoich settings. Leave it at 14.63, OR you can bump it down slightly to say 14.55 or something like that. Certainly don't set it at 13.5. Under idle/cruise etc you want to target stoich. You said you are using a MAF, which is easy to tune. However, I would recommend tuning your VE table first in the normal way. You said you also have a WB, so get this input added to your scanner ASAP.
Looking at your scan I can already see you are lacking a lot of inputs. Add the following (at a minimum) to your PID list for inputs you are scanning.
Cylinder Airmass
Knock Retard
Dynamic Airflow
Injector Puslewidth
Now I haven't updated to the new software as of yet because it disables my old tune files on this computer for some reason, so I can't look at that for now. But Looking at the log tells me you are running in speed density, Open Loop. Your fuel trims are not active, which is normally how we tune the MAF. Can be used to tune VE but a WB is better for both.
So your fueling issue is going to be on the VE table since it is the default for Speed Density tunes. This also means the PCM is going to reference the Low Octane table for spark too. To see if your MAF is disabled in the tune check under Engine Diagnostics>Airflow. If the MAF fail frequency is set to 0 you are in speed density. Anyway, maybe I'll update my software later and pray it doesn't mess up my other files, but I already tried it a few times and it didn't work too well. Then and only then could I actually look at your tune and see what's up.
If you are hitting 20:1 AFR don't get into the pedal until you have a handle on how to tune the fuel. Most add 15% across the VE table and go from there. It's better to be rich than lean while tuning it. Your VE table will be under Engine>Airflow>General>Main VE. Highlight the entire table and multiply by 1.15. Then add those other inputs to your scanner, and go through the normal VE tune procedure.
There are a TON of write ups on this site even on how to tune VE, MAF, set up the scanner and so forth. Plenty of info on here. Let us know if you get stuck.
Looking at your scan I can already see you are lacking a lot of inputs. Add the following (at a minimum) to your PID list for inputs you are scanning.
Cylinder Airmass
Knock Retard
Dynamic Airflow
Injector Puslewidth
Now I haven't updated to the new software as of yet because it disables my old tune files on this computer for some reason, so I can't look at that for now. But Looking at the log tells me you are running in speed density, Open Loop. Your fuel trims are not active, which is normally how we tune the MAF. Can be used to tune VE but a WB is better for both.
So your fueling issue is going to be on the VE table since it is the default for Speed Density tunes. This also means the PCM is going to reference the Low Octane table for spark too. To see if your MAF is disabled in the tune check under Engine Diagnostics>Airflow. If the MAF fail frequency is set to 0 you are in speed density. Anyway, maybe I'll update my software later and pray it doesn't mess up my other files, but I already tried it a few times and it didn't work too well. Then and only then could I actually look at your tune and see what's up.
If you are hitting 20:1 AFR don't get into the pedal until you have a handle on how to tune the fuel. Most add 15% across the VE table and go from there. It's better to be rich than lean while tuning it. Your VE table will be under Engine>Airflow>General>Main VE. Highlight the entire table and multiply by 1.15. Then add those other inputs to your scanner, and go through the normal VE tune procedure.
There are a TON of write ups on this site even on how to tune VE, MAF, set up the scanner and so forth. Plenty of info on here. Let us know if you get stuck.
Channels above added. Thanks for letting me know based on my log I'm running in speed density. Here is another stupid question: Under the OS tab I have 3 different level of CODE Modifications levels in Speed Density and the a 1 Bar MAF with Apply Code Modifications. As I am learning, if I am wanting to tune in 1 speed density mode, would I apply the code modifications to that type of tuning and then can I switch to another Code Modifications to tune in MAF?
I am using the latest MPV1 Pro V 4.2.12
03-23-2019, 03:25 AM
#13
TECH Fanatic
I don't think there is any need to mess with the OS mods in your case. That's mainly useful for boost when you need more than 1 bar on your VE table. I would say if you are not comfortable with the rest of the tuning process, these options should be avoided. It's basically a built in "segment swap." Back in the day we had to send off to have the tune changed to 2 or 3 bar for boost applications, but this allows you to do it yourself. Pretty neat feature, but nothing you need to play with, especially since you are new at tuning. That can brick your PCM, in which case you'll be starting all over.
I worked on a video yesterday most of the day. Not pleased with the overall results as I would like to make it better, since I'm kind of a perfectionist. But I did learn that you can get Vegas 16 Pro for free and use Powerpoint to record your screen lol. I will be working on it more today and hopefully I'll have a guide you and other new guys can use to get started in the right direction understanding the tables, and where and how to make adjustments. Sorry I didn't finish it, but it wasn't for lack of trying. Just though 30 minutes was way too long for a video on this. Now that I have Vegas again I'll be able to make a quality product.
I worked on a video yesterday most of the day. Not pleased with the overall results as I would like to make it better, since I'm kind of a perfectionist. But I did learn that you can get Vegas 16 Pro for free and use Powerpoint to record your screen lol. I will be working on it more today and hopefully I'll have a guide you and other new guys can use to get started in the right direction understanding the tables, and where and how to make adjustments. Sorry I didn't finish it, but it wasn't for lack of trying. Just though 30 minutes was way too long for a video on this. Now that I have Vegas again I'll be able to make a quality product.
03-23-2019, 07:56 AM
#14
^^ Exactly why I'm taking extra careful steps to not "brick" my pcm.", run it way too lean, burn or blow something up. I can also be quite the perfectionist with classic over thinking everything - blame it on my ADHD - lol.... It's driving me nuts not knowing exactly how my car was dyno tuned and disappointed I did not ask enough questions when it was built.. Back to videos, help topics and learning.... Nothing like jumping in at a more difficult level instead of baby steps. Thanks again, waiting until at least 8:30 AM to start my car as to not upset my neighbors.. Working all this weekend, next day off - Monday!!!!!!
03-23-2019, 08:28 AM
#15
TECH Fanatic
I finished the video, rendering it now. Still ended up being a little longer than I wanted, but it really is a complete walk through on how to tune VE, set up the tables, make sure your inputs are right, switch off the correct parts in the tune, so forth. Even how to do the adjustments, how to log them, basically everything you need to know to start doing it yourself. It's not super difficult.
It will be a few hours before I can post it, since once it's done rendering, I have to upload it, and I also have to pick someone up at the airport tonight, so it's going to be a while. If you have any questions don't be afraid to ask. It's not easy to learn all this stuff. I've just realized that I've been doing it long enough that it's like second nature now lol. Thought I would share my methods. Might as well.
It will be a few hours before I can post it, since once it's done rendering, I have to upload it, and I also have to pick someone up at the airport tonight, so it's going to be a while. If you have any questions don't be afraid to ask. It's not easy to learn all this stuff. I've just realized that I've been doing it long enough that it's like second nature now lol. Thought I would share my methods. Might as well.
03-23-2019, 11:29 PM
#17
Here's the video. Hop this helps. Let me know what you think of it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAQh...ature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAQh...ature=youtu.be
Perfect! Thanks.....Your Video is excellent, brought everything together and great ending. A stroked 427 - Nice! Noticed a huge difference in tables for sure...Will have time to adjust things tomorrow and then hope to get logs posted on Monday..
Will keep y'all updated...
03-24-2019, 12:12 AM
#18
TECH Fanatic
Thanks. Glad you liked it. The tables from that video are actually all stock tables, cause I figured guys watching that would probably be just starting out, didn't want to throw any wrenches in there. Yeah that's a really old video when it was just the crate LS3/480 in there (which is now stroked and a bunch of other stuff lol). Still fast at the time, but now that thing is just plain retarded.
Yes, definitely post your logs and keep us updated. Here to help.
Yes, definitely post your logs and keep us updated. Here to help.
03-24-2019, 08:17 PM
#19
Alright - followed the video and wow what a difference!!! INNOVATE LM1 Wideband 02's consistently read between 12.5 to 13.7 to 14.7 but after warming up stayed at the 12.5 to 13.2 range. For some reason the Channels I added as mentioned above show on my Scanner, but do not show on log file. I know there is definitely some smoothing that needs to go on but this is a great start.. Thanks again to ChopperDOC for putting together a terrific video. I've attached my latest tune with the latest log file. Getting to late to run my car around the neighborhood so tomorrow will be my day. I accidentally disconnected my Auto Meters except the AEM AFR which is reading about 1 above the Innovate LM1... I seriously do not know how LMR had the meters connected and I have a single wire connecting with a male fitting and cannot find the other end.... My MSD shift light & rpm gauge, Fuel pressure gauge and Nitrous Meter all do not work now - dab nab it... When I replaced my PCM taking the old out is what disconnected it.. I do not know if they had it plugged in the PCM some how.... I'm still looking for the connection point. Thanks again to all with more to come.....
03-25-2019, 12:06 AM
#20
TECH Fanatic
I'm really glad this got you moving in the right direction. Definitely motivating me to do more now lol.
In your log I noticed a few things missing on the PID list but I know you said you added them. Still very strange they didn't show up on the log. That's really weird. So long as you are logging the WB err vs. commanded through the VE table you'll be making progress. I also noticed that Knock Retard isn't being logged either, make sure you log that if you aren't already.
You can still use the WB gauge output wire to log into you HP tuners unit too. Not sure if this is how you're doing it. I have several of them now, a couple I've perm installed and another portable setup I use just for tuning. Have it wired up to plug into the standard 12v outlet for power, and I have all the wires wrapped with performance braid. Just need a clip or something to add to the gauge so I can mount it easily in different cars.
Here's a video on it from The Tuning School.
In your log I noticed a few things missing on the PID list but I know you said you added them. Still very strange they didn't show up on the log. That's really weird. So long as you are logging the WB err vs. commanded through the VE table you'll be making progress. I also noticed that Knock Retard isn't being logged either, make sure you log that if you aren't already.
You can still use the WB gauge output wire to log into you HP tuners unit too. Not sure if this is how you're doing it. I have several of them now, a couple I've perm installed and another portable setup I use just for tuning. Have it wired up to plug into the standard 12v outlet for power, and I have all the wires wrapped with performance braid. Just need a clip or something to add to the gauge so I can mount it easily in different cars.
Here's a video on it from The Tuning School.
