?'s for those who've deleted torque management
12-10-2001, 07:29 PM
#1
On The Tree
Thread Starter
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Chesterfield,Va
Posts: 194
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
?'s for those who've deleted torque management I want to know why each of you did delete it,how long has your trans lasted since it was done,and is it worth doing?My timing is about 18 degrees thru out the 1/4 mile at 100 throttle,maybe thats the cause!I cant figure it out.I'm going 12.81 at 102 mph(thats pretty low mph compared to everyone I've seen running that)!Thanks <img src="images/icons/confused.gif" border="0">
12-10-2001, 07:42 PM
#4
Re: ?'s for those who've deleted torque management I had tq. mgt. deleted, but I haven't had the tuning long. I have around 375 miles on the car since the tuning went in. It's definitely worth doing, at least on the '01 and '02 cars. My car was falling on its face pretty hard on the shifts, and it got worse after the TransGo shift kit went in. With tq. mgt. gone, it shifts very quick and keeps on charging hard through the next gear.
If you're only getting 18 degrees of timing at WOT, then I'd guess that there's something else wrong. Tq. mgt. will pull timing on the shifts, but you will get it back once the trans has made it into the next gear. The 102 MPH says a lot. When I ran 12.7's and 12.8's it was consistently at 105-106 MPH. Have you AutoTapped to see what's going on in the PCM? Are you running a ported MAF? Have you reset the PCM?
If you're only getting 18 degrees of timing at WOT, then I'd guess that there's something else wrong. Tq. mgt. will pull timing on the shifts, but you will get it back once the trans has made it into the next gear. The 102 MPH says a lot. When I ran 12.7's and 12.8's it was consistently at 105-106 MPH. Have you AutoTapped to see what's going on in the PCM? Are you running a ported MAF? Have you reset the PCM?
__________________
12-10-2001, 08:30 PM
#5
On The Tree
Thread Starter
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Chesterfield,Va
Posts: 194
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: ?'s for those who've deleted torque management Trevor
I have A-Tapped and found the timing at 18 to 20 degrees@100% throttle and 3 KR thru out the 1/4 ml!I had my PCM fried with HPP3(battery died during programming)The dealer forgot to do the Crankshaft Learn Procedure on the new PCM,so I took it back and they did it but I have had guys say to go have them reflash it again,what do you think?I thought maybe TM was causing the prob.I just dont want to spend alot on things that wont help!Just want some knowledgable opinions first.Thanks
I have A-Tapped and found the timing at 18 to 20 degrees@100% throttle and 3 KR thru out the 1/4 ml!I had my PCM fried with HPP3(battery died during programming)The dealer forgot to do the Crankshaft Learn Procedure on the new PCM,so I took it back and they did it but I have had guys say to go have them reflash it again,what do you think?I thought maybe TM was causing the prob.I just dont want to spend alot on things that wont help!Just want some knowledgable opinions first.Thanks
12-11-2001, 07:56 AM
#6
LS1Tech Administrator
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Schiller Park, IL Member: #317
Posts: 32,040
Likes: 0
Received 1,490 Likes
on
1,072 Posts
Re: ?'s for those who've deleted torque management What is the Crankshaft Learn Procedure?
12-11-2001, 05:05 PM
#7
On The Tree
Thread Starter
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Chesterfield,Va
Posts: 194
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: ?'s for those who've deleted torque management The service manual says that you have to perform this procedure after a PCM change is made.I guess it's so the crank and the cam will be in sync and will fire properly.You need a scan tool to perform it though!
[ December 11, 2001: Message edited by: HWYRIPR ]</p>
[ December 11, 2001: Message edited by: HWYRIPR ]</p>
Trending Topics
12-11-2001, 07:59 PM
#8
TECH Regular
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Anderson, SC
Posts: 417
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: ?'s for those who've deleted torque management [quote]Originally posted by HWYRIPR:
<strong>The service manual says that you have to perform this procedure after a PCM change is made.I guess it's so the crank and the cam will be in sync and will fire properly.You need a scan tool to perform it though!
[ December 11, 2001: Message edited by: HWYRIPR ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Oh boy, ain't this just freakin' great. My PCM should be back any day now. <img src="graemlins/gr_cry.gif" border="0" alt="[whiner]" /> What is involved in doing this? Does it happen to everybody?
<strong>The service manual says that you have to perform this procedure after a PCM change is made.I guess it's so the crank and the cam will be in sync and will fire properly.You need a scan tool to perform it though!
[ December 11, 2001: Message edited by: HWYRIPR ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Oh boy, ain't this just freakin' great. My PCM should be back any day now. <img src="graemlins/gr_cry.gif" border="0" alt="[whiner]" /> What is involved in doing this? Does it happen to everybody?
12-11-2001, 08:33 PM
#10
Re: ?'s for those who've deleted torque management [quote]Originally posted by RPM WS6:
<strong>What is the Crankshaft Learn Procedure?</strong><hr></blockquote>
The crankshaft learn procedure is a procedure done with a Tech-2 after the PCM is reprogrammed or replaced. It lets the PCM learn the variation of the crankshaft reluctor wheel teeth. The purpose is so that the PCM can make a better judgement between misfire detection, and normal variation in rpm calculations due to the slight differnces from engine to engine in the crankshaft reluctor teeth. You'll get a check engine light right away after changing or reprogramming a PCM if this procedure needs to be done. This feature can also be programmed out if you're doing a cam and getting rid of of the P0300 code stuff anyway.
Does that make any sense?
John
Speartech Fuel Injection Systems, Inc.
www.speartech.com
LS1_edit beta tester
<strong>What is the Crankshaft Learn Procedure?</strong><hr></blockquote>
The crankshaft learn procedure is a procedure done with a Tech-2 after the PCM is reprogrammed or replaced. It lets the PCM learn the variation of the crankshaft reluctor wheel teeth. The purpose is so that the PCM can make a better judgement between misfire detection, and normal variation in rpm calculations due to the slight differnces from engine to engine in the crankshaft reluctor teeth. You'll get a check engine light right away after changing or reprogramming a PCM if this procedure needs to be done. This feature can also be programmed out if you're doing a cam and getting rid of of the P0300 code stuff anyway.
Does that make any sense?
John
Speartech Fuel Injection Systems, Inc.
www.speartech.com
LS1_edit beta tester
__________________
91 Z28 LS2 408CI, LS9 Supercharger, LPE GT7 cam, Yank3000, 3450 raceweight.
Latest numbers: 9.71 ET, 141.42 MPH, 1.40 60' , 610 RWHP Mustang Dyno
www.speartech.com
91 Z28 LS2 408CI, LS9 Supercharger, LPE GT7 cam, Yank3000, 3450 raceweight.
Latest numbers: 9.71 ET, 141.42 MPH, 1.40 60' , 610 RWHP Mustang Dyno
www.speartech.com
12-11-2001, 08:43 PM
#11
Staging Lane
Re: ?'s for those who've deleted torque management Is there anyway to remove it on an 02? I can really tell mine is messing with my acceleration. I get my AutoTap this week so maybe I will know more then. All I want is it removed, when will LS1 edit be available for an 02? Or is there some other way to remove it?
12-11-2001, 08:50 PM
#12
TECH Enthusiast
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Johnsburg, IL
Posts: 700
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: ?'s for those who've deleted torque management [quote]Originally posted by HWYRIPR:
<strong>I want to know why each of you did delete it,how long has your trans lasted since it was done,and is it worth doing?My timing is about 18 degrees thru out the 1/4 mile at 100 throttle,maybe thats the cause!I cant figure it out.I'm going 12.81 at 102 mph(thats pretty low mph compared to everyone I've seen running that)!Thanks <img src="images/icons/confused.gif" border="0"> </strong><hr></blockquote>
HWYRIPR, I read your post and I thought I was looking into a mirror. My timing is about 22* but my numbers are at 12.91 at 103.98. Which I thought was some very low numbers. I'm curious to see what happens if you get the PCM flashed at the dealer. I was going to do the PCM relearn and see what happens as well as change the plugs and wires. Hopefully I get this ironed out. Sure would like the car to run at it's best. <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">
<strong>I want to know why each of you did delete it,how long has your trans lasted since it was done,and is it worth doing?My timing is about 18 degrees thru out the 1/4 mile at 100 throttle,maybe thats the cause!I cant figure it out.I'm going 12.81 at 102 mph(thats pretty low mph compared to everyone I've seen running that)!Thanks <img src="images/icons/confused.gif" border="0"> </strong><hr></blockquote>
HWYRIPR, I read your post and I thought I was looking into a mirror. My timing is about 22* but my numbers are at 12.91 at 103.98. Which I thought was some very low numbers. I'm curious to see what happens if you get the PCM flashed at the dealer. I was going to do the PCM relearn and see what happens as well as change the plugs and wires. Hopefully I get this ironed out. Sure would like the car to run at it's best. <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">
12-11-2001, 08:52 PM
#13
Re: ?'s for those who've deleted torque management [quote]Originally posted by franches:
<strong>Is there anyway to remove it on an 02? I can really tell mine is messing with my acceleration. I get my AutoTap this week so maybe I will know more then. All I want is it removed, when will LS1 edit be available for an 02? Or is there some other way to remove it?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I assume that you're referring to tq. mgt. Yes, it can be programmed out b/c I have an '02. <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">
There's something going on besides tq. mgt. to pull your timing on the entire run. Tq. mgt. will only pulling timing on the shifts. FWIW, I didn't have to do the crank relearn procedure when my PCM went back in, and I haven't had any problems. Just be sure to "help" it out on the first start. Until it learns, it's going to probably stall on the 1st start unless you give it some throttle.
<strong>Is there anyway to remove it on an 02? I can really tell mine is messing with my acceleration. I get my AutoTap this week so maybe I will know more then. All I want is it removed, when will LS1 edit be available for an 02? Or is there some other way to remove it?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I assume that you're referring to tq. mgt. Yes, it can be programmed out b/c I have an '02. <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">
There's something going on besides tq. mgt. to pull your timing on the entire run. Tq. mgt. will only pulling timing on the shifts. FWIW, I didn't have to do the crank relearn procedure when my PCM went back in, and I haven't had any problems. Just be sure to "help" it out on the first start. Until it learns, it's going to probably stall on the 1st start unless you give it some throttle.
__________________
12-11-2001, 09:23 PM
#14
On The Tree
Thread Starter
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Chesterfield,Va
Posts: 194
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: ?'s for those who've deleted torque management What else could be making my timing that low all the way thru the 1/4 mile? <img src="images/icons/confused.gif" border="0"> Because it stays low, long after the shifts!Should I just have it reflashed for the <img src="graemlins/gr_devil.gif" border="0" alt="[devil]" /> of it?
12-11-2001, 10:05 PM
#15
Re: ?'s for those who've deleted torque management [quote]Originally posted by RyanJackson:
<strong>TM only pulls timing on the shifts <img src="images/icons/confused.gif" border="0"> </strong><hr></blockquote>
I posted this before, but here it is again for those that may have missed it.
Torque management is a function of the PCM that reduces engine power
under certain conditions. Torque Management is performed for the
following reasons:
To prevent overstressing the powertrain components.
To prevent damage to the vehicle during certain abusive maneuvers.
To reduce engine speed when the IAC is out of the normal operating
range.
The PCM monitors the following sensors and engine parameters to
calculate engine output torque:
Air/Fuel ratio
Mass Air Flow
Manifold Asolute Pressure
Intake Air Temperature
Spark Advance
Engine Speed
Engine Coolant Temperature
A/C Clutch Status
The PCM monitors the torque converter status, the transmission gear
ratio, and the engine speed in order to determine if torque reduction
is required. The PCM retards the spark as appropriate to reduce
engine torque if torque reduction is required. The PCM also shuts
off the fuel to certain injectors to reduce the engine power in the
case of an abusive manuever.
The following are instances when engine power reduction is likely to
be experienced:
During transmission upshifts and downshifts.
Heavy acceleration from a standing start.
The IAC is out of the normal operating range.
When the driver is performing harsh or abusive manuevers such as
shifting into gear at high throttle angles or shifting the
transmission from reverse to drive to create a rocking motion.
The driver is unlikely to notice the torque management actions in the
first two instances. The engine power output will be moderate at
full throttle in the other two cases.
The PCM calculates the amount of spark retard necessary to reduce
engine power by the desired amount. The PCM disables the fuel
injectors for cylinders 1, 4, 6, and 7 in the case of an abusive
manuever.
<strong>TM only pulls timing on the shifts <img src="images/icons/confused.gif" border="0"> </strong><hr></blockquote>
I posted this before, but here it is again for those that may have missed it.
Torque management is a function of the PCM that reduces engine power
under certain conditions. Torque Management is performed for the
following reasons:
To prevent overstressing the powertrain components.
To prevent damage to the vehicle during certain abusive maneuvers.
To reduce engine speed when the IAC is out of the normal operating
range.
The PCM monitors the following sensors and engine parameters to
calculate engine output torque:
Air/Fuel ratio
Mass Air Flow
Manifold Asolute Pressure
Intake Air Temperature
Spark Advance
Engine Speed
Engine Coolant Temperature
A/C Clutch Status
The PCM monitors the torque converter status, the transmission gear
ratio, and the engine speed in order to determine if torque reduction
is required. The PCM retards the spark as appropriate to reduce
engine torque if torque reduction is required. The PCM also shuts
off the fuel to certain injectors to reduce the engine power in the
case of an abusive manuever.
The following are instances when engine power reduction is likely to
be experienced:
During transmission upshifts and downshifts.
Heavy acceleration from a standing start.
The IAC is out of the normal operating range.
When the driver is performing harsh or abusive manuevers such as
shifting into gear at high throttle angles or shifting the
transmission from reverse to drive to create a rocking motion.
The driver is unlikely to notice the torque management actions in the
first two instances. The engine power output will be moderate at
full throttle in the other two cases.
The PCM calculates the amount of spark retard necessary to reduce
engine power by the desired amount. The PCM disables the fuel
injectors for cylinders 1, 4, 6, and 7 in the case of an abusive
manuever.
12-12-2001, 04:50 PM
#16
On The Tree
Thread Starter
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Chesterfield,Va
Posts: 194
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: ?'s for those who've deleted torque management [quote]Originally posted by HWYRIPR:
<strong>What else could be making my timing that low all the way thru the 1/4 mile? <img src="images/icons/confused.gif" border="0"> Because it stays low, long after the shifts!Should I just have it reflashed for the <img src="graemlins/gr_devil.gif" border="0" alt="[devil]" /> of it?</strong><hr></blockquote>
What do ya'll think I should try? <img src="gr_sad.gif" border="0">
<strong>What else could be making my timing that low all the way thru the 1/4 mile? <img src="images/icons/confused.gif" border="0"> Because it stays low, long after the shifts!Should I just have it reflashed for the <img src="graemlins/gr_devil.gif" border="0" alt="[devil]" /> of it?</strong><hr></blockquote>
What do ya'll think I should try? <img src="gr_sad.gif" border="0">
12-12-2001, 05:02 PM
#17
TECH Fanatic
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Las Cruces, NM
Posts: 1,190
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: ?'s for those who've deleted torque management What octane gas are you running and whats the altitude were you doing the racing at. Your timing and mile hour look just like mine. But I only have 91 octane and race track is at 4500'. So I pretty much know whats causing my lack of power.
Gary
Gary
12-13-2001, 07:54 AM
#18
LS1Tech Administrator
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Schiller Park, IL Member: #317
Posts: 32,040
Likes: 0
Received 1,490 Likes
on
1,072 Posts
Re: ?'s for those who've deleted torque management [quote]Originally posted by Speartech:
<strong>
The crankshaft learn procedure is a procedure done with a Tech-2 after the PCM is reprogrammed or replaced. It lets the PCM learn the variation of the crankshaft reluctor wheel teeth. The purpose is so that the PCM can make a better judgement between misfire detection, and normal variation in rpm calculations due to the slight differnces from engine to engine in the crankshaft reluctor teeth. You'll get a check engine light right away after changing or reprogramming a PCM if this procedure needs to be done. This feature can also be programmed out if you're doing a cam and getting rid of of the P0300 code stuff anyway.
Does that make any sense?
John
Speartech Fuel Injection Systems, Inc.
www.speartech.com
LS1_edit beta tester</strong><hr></blockquote>
Ahhhh... Thanks! I just looked all this up in Helms too. It said the same thing, but I AM having the PO300 crap removed so I guess this won’t be an issue after all for me. Thanks for this info <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">
<strong>
The crankshaft learn procedure is a procedure done with a Tech-2 after the PCM is reprogrammed or replaced. It lets the PCM learn the variation of the crankshaft reluctor wheel teeth. The purpose is so that the PCM can make a better judgement between misfire detection, and normal variation in rpm calculations due to the slight differnces from engine to engine in the crankshaft reluctor teeth. You'll get a check engine light right away after changing or reprogramming a PCM if this procedure needs to be done. This feature can also be programmed out if you're doing a cam and getting rid of of the P0300 code stuff anyway.
Does that make any sense?
John
Speartech Fuel Injection Systems, Inc.
www.speartech.com
LS1_edit beta tester</strong><hr></blockquote>
Ahhhh... Thanks! I just looked all this up in Helms too. It said the same thing, but I AM having the PO300 crap removed so I guess this won’t be an issue after all for me. Thanks for this info <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">
