EFIlive V5 demo using Autotap interface
 

I have just uploaded a demo version of EFIlive.
It works using the Autotap AT1 interface. <img src="gr_images/icons/cool.gif" border="0">
It is a demo and is therefor a cut-down functionality version.
It has been restricted to static data display. No real-time data may be logged or monitored, just things like trouble codes, test results and other static type data.

Anyway I thought you folks who already own the AT1 interface might like to see EFIlive V5 in action.

http://www.starrperformance.com.au/e...IliveV5AT1.zip

Regards
Paul

Re: EFIlive V5 demo using Autotap interface
 

I tried it and it didn't work for me. Said it didn't find a compatible adapter.

Re: EFIlive V5 demo using Autotap interface
 

Define "other static type data"? When it requested the PCM ID # the value 16239740 was returned, then it said the VIN could not be determined. I guess I don't see much to this demo. How about a demo version limited to X number of uses, or X number of days? Or a competitive upgrade for those of us who already own AT? Sorry, I don't see much here that couldn't have been represented by a few bitmaps *shrug*.

I see a lot of help windows which state "Not implemented yet", and I don't see a method to switch from Metric to Imperial units (i.e., I want vehicle speed reported in MPH, not KPH. Looks like this product hasn't passed it's alpha milestone yet.

<img src="images/icons/confused.gif" border="0">

Re: EFIlive V5 demo using Autotap interface
 

Hi Jim,

This is just a demo - not the full blown version.
A competitive upgrade is a very real possibilty, we are just working on licensing issues.
I posted it to gauge the response to a new/cheap software upgrade that uses the Atap interface.

In reply to the points you raised...

The VIN number issue is due to GM's reluctance to follow the OBD-II standards. If the PCM number is not one that is currently recognised by the software then EFIlive V5 attempts to find the VIN according to the OBD-II specifications. GM PCM's do not return the VIN when requested via the OBD-II defined VIN command. As more users report their PCM numbers we can add the PCM number to the list of known PCM numbers and the software can then customise itself based on the PCM# and the VIN number.

Your comment about the alpha milestone is noted. It is a *very* new product, only been on the market for 2 months. We can't and don't claim that the product is mature and works on all platforms. We have spared no effort to ensure that the product works as advertised and is bug free. We will continue to work hard with our customers (demo customers included) to make the product work efficiently on each particular platform.

I think the help system and the chart property editor are the only two things that are not implemented yet, if there are others please let me know. The help system is being proofed right now. The chart properties may or may not be implemented, there is no real need for a chart property editor except maybe to change the chart colors.

Each PID (parameter identifier) that can be represented with different units (not just imperial or metric) is listed as many times as it has units. For example VSS is listed twice, once as kph and once as mph. You need to select the one you want from the list of PIDS in the "PIDS (F12)" tab page - then place that selected PID onto the dash items, or a chart (using a right mouse click on the dash gauge or chart series name).

To easily find PIDS, you can click on the column headers to sort the list based on that column.

The other static data is:
- Display supported CARB mandated PIDS for your vehicle.
- Display system readiness test results
- Display non-continously monitored test results
- Display O2 sensor test results.
- Emissions Diagnostic trouble codes
- Pending trouble codes.

The above six displays are mandated by SAE-J1978, an OBD-II scantool must provide that information.
You can access them via the OBD-II menu.

- And lastly, freeze frame trouble codes.

Your idea to have a demo version that allows data logging is something I am very keen to do. But here's the problem:

A crippled version can (and will) be cracked. Our last product EFIlive V4 had an evaluation version that was cracked. look at the nature of the product and the people who will most want to use it - those folks are hackers (in the true sense), they can reverse engineer just about any hardware and software, change it and put it back so it works better/faster/cleaner than before. I think that is a good thing but I have to balance having the product cracked and pirated with the wishes of the people who have invested in this product.

Is this something that Atap users want - a fast software scan tool that uses their existing hardware?
What do folks on LS1Tech think would be a reasonable price for a competitive upgrade?
Remember the whole EFIlive V5 package is only $195.00

Re: EFIlive V5 demo using Autotap interface
 

If you can support Atap's cable, how about a demo that works with the cable that ships with Ease (OBDII) or TTS Datamaster (OBDI) scan sotfware.

Your package looks interesting and well laid out.
I like the "user interface" and the analog dash baord. I downloaded the demo, emailed you for the trial serial number and tried it with my Ease cable. As you most likely know, unsuccessfully.

Also, if your thinking about competitive upgrades maybe you should consider also a better deal on a combined OBDI & OBDII package and on line ordering. Sending a money order overseas is something I just can't get motivated to do.

No slam, just my couple cents worth of input.

Re: EFIlive V5 demo using Autotap interface
 

Hi John,

Both points that you raised (online ordering and better deal for purchasing both products) are currently being discussed/reviewed.

As for a demo using Ease or Datamaster interfaces, no-can-do at the moment, maybe sometime later this year.

Regards
Paul

Re: EFIlive V5 demo using Autotap interface
 

Hi Chris,

Can you post the contents of the monitor window, or send to: efilive@blacky.co.nz

Regards
Paul

Re: EFIlive V5 demo using Autotap interface
 

The 8192 baud OBDI cables (such as datamaster's) are no more than a TTL to RS232 line level converter. There's no way you can do VPW with those.

Eric

Re: EFIlive V5 demo using Autotap interface
 

Hi Paul,

Thank you for your responses...

- Re: the VIN: So if it can't find this PCM #, it can't locate the VIN number. AutoTap pulled my VIN without manually entering it...how's it different?

- I take it V5 was a total re-write from the ground up, then? I'm personally hesitant to beta test the software when you admit it's not mature yet you're selling it on the market anyway. You don't work for Microsoft, do you? <img src="gr_tounge.gif" border="0">

- I found the different units for the PID's - my bad. Sorry.

- I don't believe a demo version needs to be able to write to a real log file. Perhaps you could severely limit the PIDS one could monitor real-time. Just a thought.

- You say a crippled version can (and will be) hacked. Isn't this demo essentially a crippled version? Why are you not concerned about this demo? Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be the bad guy <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">

Personally, I want a fast interface which can basically do everything the $2000 Tech-II can do, at the same rate, for 10-20% of the cost. It'd be nice if it used the AT1 interface I already purchased. But if this interface is shown to be the bottleneck, I'd be willing to buy another reasonably priced cable which would not be a bottleneck. I personally don't like the overhead of a GUI interface either. Perhaps I would so long as the sampling rate wouldn't suffer.

I don't recall what your V5 package includes...if it comes with the cable, thats a good deal when the software matures. What would encourage me to buy it?

- An easy way to order it without sending snailmail to Oz. U.S. resellers?

- An easy method for support in the U.S. Sometimes I want to talk live to a human but I doubt I'd be calling Oz very frequently.

- How about if you buy the regular package, you could get the AT1 interface compatibility included for a reduced cost?

*shrug* Just some things off the top of my head...

Jim

Re: EFIlive V5 demo using Autotap interface
 

I'll take a screen shot tomorrow. It's a PIII-1Ghz laptop running Windows XP. Yes, it is the AT1 interface.

If the program will work on my laptop I'll buy it. The price of a competitive upgrade has to be cheap if I have to use my cable. I already have offers to buy my autotap for near the $195 price your charging.

Also I emailed a few days ago for dealer info and wanting to buy one and haven't heard anything.

Re: EFIlive V5 demo using Autotap interface
 

agreed. since we could more than likely sell our used atap for the cost of your product and turn around and buy yours for basically zero the price would have to be low. But if it turns out your software does run faster with the atap cable then it's worth considering a competetive upgrade. Nice thing about software is it costs you the same to write it and sell to 1 guy as it does 1000 so even though the competetive upgrade price would have to be very low it's still X dollars more to you than if you did not offer the competitive upgrade. at least thats how i see it anyway.

Re: EFIlive V5 demo using Autotap interface
 

You guys are keeping me awake at night <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">

Hi Eric,
You're right, but I assumed since the question was posed that Datamaster may have released an OBD-II version.

Hi Jim,
When I released the demo software I only included one PCM# in the list of know PCM#'s. If your PCM# does not match then a few things are disabled - including the ability to retrieve and display the VIN#. This was not intentional, just an oversight. The software in its current form (not the demo version) will try to obtain the VIN number regardless of PCM#, only if it fails will it then try specific VIN number techniques based on the PCM#.

I didn't realise people would take the demo/AT1 version so seriously. I underestimated the interest.

V5 had to be a total re-write, ALDL and OBD-II couldn't be more different.
Having said that, it uses the same serial comms code, the same dashboard gauges, the same data extraction and scaling and various functionality from V4. Because it was built using O-O code a lot of the internals of V4 were reused.

There are a number of ways to "cripple" software. This demo version has been crippled by completely removing the code that does the data monitoring/logging. So no amount of hacking is going to restore full functionality.

If a demo version was released that allowed, say 5 PIDs and 30 seconds log time then that code would be present in the executable and protected by "settings" that could be changed by changing a few bytes in the executable. I had a (very honest) user send me an email showing me which bytes to change in one of my previous crippled demo versions to turn it into a full version.

But I hear what you are saying and I will see if we can release a demo version that does demonstrates the data logging features of EFIlive V5.

The AT1 interface is not the bottleneck. It appears Autotap have a very good hardware interface. EFIlive V5 will still grab 10 frames per second with the AT1 interface. It's just Autotap's software is slow - I believe they limit themselves to the generic OBD-II functionality so they can remain compatible and consistent across all manufacturers. Since EFIlive V5 is only designed for GM it can (try to) take advantage of all the tricks GM use.

The GUI is also not the bottleneck. I am running EFIlive V5 with only an average of 24% CPU used. Just about all functions that you might use while collecting data are keyboard controlled so you don't even need to touch the mouse. Mice are impossible to use in a vehicle (moving or not).

Don't forget that OBD-II SAE J1850 VPW communicates at a nominal 10.4Kbps that's just a little over 1K per second. If a Pentium 500Mhz PC can't keep up with 1K per second of data then the software is poorly written (or it's written in VB).

EFIlive V5 comes with the cable and interface.

I think people will want to buy EFIlive V5 for the following reason alone:
Our goal has never been to build JUST a scan tool. Scan tools DO NOT help you tune your car. They just tell you what is right/wrong with it.
EFIlive V5 has been designed to allow the user to construct spark and fuel maps (based on any parameters, usually MAP/MAF v's RPM) that not only display the spark and fuel in the map but also allow temporary overrides of the spark and fuel for any given cell in the map. So you can sit your car on the dyno and "tune" it on the fly by changing individual cells up or down. Once the values have been worked out you can use something like LS1Edit to apply those changes permanently.
The ability to change spark/fuel will be available in the next release.

The ordering/purchasing over the net is being addressed.
We are talking to several US suppliers to sell and support our products in the US.

If we do an AT1 interface version:
- purchasing the full version may also include the AT1 version.
- purchasing the AT1 version will be significantly (more than 50%) cheaper.
- The AT1 version will be locked to a particular PC (or PC and laptop combo)
Unfortunately we must lock down the AT1 version as we lose hardware control. And even that lock will be hacked one day.

Well you all better sell your Atap's before people realise they can get a new version of EFIlive V5 for the same price as a second hand version of Atap.

But seriously, Chris and Blackbird, you make a good points about the cost of the upgrade.

Regards
Paul

Re: EFIlive V5 demo using Autotap interface
 

well I just tried it out.
It connected just fine to my pcm with my autotap hardware <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0"> .
And it looks nice with a lot of features.
But to be brutally honest it is not worth the time to download it and try it out it is so limited in use.
I can't do anything but look at screen shots and see that it is connected to my pcm.
A-tap windows version looks nice also when you just look at screen shots. But once you start actually using it you find a lot of bugs and flaws.
I don't know about all this hacking stuff but anything and anybody can be ripped off.

I would like to see some sort of demo with a little more function so I can see what this is capable of.
Steve
www.tech-ls1.com

Re: EFIlive V5 demo using Autotap interface
 

I know this is not the same as running it live on your vehicle, but to see EFIlive "running" you can load the logged data files and play them back. Select a playback speed of 1 and it is *exactly* what it looks like when you are logging data.
You can zoom in/out the charts, use the keyboard arrow keys to step through the logged data frame by frame.

I am looking into doing a more "useful" demo version.

Re: EFIlive V5 demo using Autotap interface
 

Just curious here:

1. Will this work with ATAP 123 cable? Or is that totally impossible? Just wondering because I had to upgrade so that I could scan the parents minivan <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">

2. Will this work with an OBD2 LT1? It says designed for the LS1 on your site, but I thought I would ask as there is a gaping hole between your pre 96 stuff and then the LS1/OBD2 <img src="gr_sad.gif" border="0">

How much faster than ATAP can this thing go? It looks like its still dependent on number of items being monitored, right?

Re: EFIlive V5 demo using Autotap interface
 

[quote]
I know this is not the same as running it live on your vehicle, but to see EFIlive "running" you can load the logged data files and play them back. <hr></blockquote>
Are you saying I can playback a-tap logs with this demo?

Or are there just some included logs in the demo to watch it work?

Re: EFIlive V5 demo using Autotap interface
 

We have concentrated development and testing on LS1 so we can state that it works and works well on LS1. It may also work on LT1 but we haven't officially certified it on the LT1 platform yet.

EFIlive V5 should work with the AT123 interface - the standard interface (MPA) that ships with EFIlive V5 handles more protocols than the AT123 cable. The AT123 cable handles, I believe VPW, PWM and ISO-9141-2, the EFIlive V5 MPA interface handles those three plus two more. So the software is configured to automatically select the right protocol.

The frame capture rate is not dependant on the number of items being logged. If you log 1 item or 24 items you will still get 10 frames per second.

EFIlive V5 will not read Autotap log files. There are a number of EFIlive V5 log files that have been made available.

Regards
Paul

Re: EFIlive V5 demo using Autotap interface
 

What are the minimum system requirements? I have an old pentium 133 laptop. Will this be sufficient to run EFIlive V5?

Thanks,
Jeff

Re: EFIlive V5 demo using Autotap interface
 

Hi Jeff,

Recommended:
P4 1Ghz, 32Mb free RAM, 10Mb free Disk, RS232 serial port, SVGA 1024x768, Win2K, MPA.

Minimum:
PII 500Mhz, 16Mb free RAM, 5Mb free disk, USB with serial adapter, VGA 800x600, Win95/98/Me/NT, MPA.

The minimum spec is probably more highly spec'd than absolutely necessary but we need to cover ourselves.

The best way to find out if your laptop will run the software is to download the software. Then load and playback the sample log files. You can adjust the playback speed in the properties section, set it to 10 (10 times faster than realtime).

The time is displayed in the lower right corner of the charts tab-page. If this "time" clicks over faster than realtime then your laptop has processing power to spare and will run EFIlive ok. If this "time" clicks over slower than realtime then your laptop is struggling and probably won't run EFIlive V5 to its full potential.

For example a P4 1.5Ghz will easily playback a logfile at greater than 10 times normal speed, so a 150mhz laptop should be able to keep up.

Your 133Mhz, may do it, it may not - best to try it and see.

A word of warning, the dashboard gauges soak up the most cpu processing, so if you do not have them displayed, (i.e. you have the charts tab-page showing or the parameter's tab-page showing) then the laptop won't spend any time "drawing" the dash gauges. The tab page to display for the best performance is the first one.

Regards
Paul

Re: EFIlive V5 demo using Autotap interface
 

Ummm, they don't make a 1Ghz P4, nor do they make or ever made a 500Mhz P-II.

Eitherway those are some pretty steep requirements for a laptop IMO for a very slow data logging interface.

I'd love to try it and maybe even buy it but I'd like a little more detailed explanation on the requirements.