RTT bug with new HPT?
07-05-2006, 10:31 PM
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RTT bug with new HPT? I seem to have uncovered a bug or some odd nuance in the new HPT RTT software.
I have been having a devil of a time tuning using the RTT. I have isolated the problem I believe.
When tuning the VE table.....say I flash my car, a given cell value is 65. After I flash it, I use the RTT to get the RAM contents, and the values do not match at all. They are off by quite a bit.
Does anyone have any ideas? Is this a glitch in the OS/software? I am very frustrated with tuning my car. As you can imagine, the tune is all over the place, usually extremely rich.
I should mention I'm running an OL SD with an 01 corvette.
I have been having a devil of a time tuning using the RTT. I have isolated the problem I believe.
When tuning the VE table.....say I flash my car, a given cell value is 65. After I flash it, I use the RTT to get the RAM contents, and the values do not match at all. They are off by quite a bit.
Does anyone have any ideas? Is this a glitch in the OS/software? I am very frustrated with tuning my car. As you can imagine, the tune is all over the place, usually extremely rich.
I should mention I'm running an OL SD with an 01 corvette.
07-05-2006, 10:51 PM
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Please make a post on the hpt forum, http://www.hptuners.com/forum or e-mail support. Be sure to include your serial # if sending an e-mail, and your HPT file.
- Keith, HP Tuners
- Keith, HP Tuners
07-05-2006, 10:55 PM
#3
Theres a calculated PID in EFIlive that lets you see volumetric effeciency %.. I think RTT is just a fancy set of bi-directional controls that logs that effeciency % and puts it in a histogram. The final piece of the puzzle is when they let you make bi-directional fueling controls per cell in that histogram.
Thats my theroy anyway.
Is there anything that can be thowing off yoru VE% calculation? Have you changed your cylinder volume constant for the larger displacement? Those are constants that must be known by the scanner to correctly calcualte VE%
Thats my theroy anyway.
Is there anything that can be thowing off yoru VE% calculation? Have you changed your cylinder volume constant for the larger displacement? Those are constants that must be known by the scanner to correctly calcualte VE%
07-05-2006, 11:05 PM
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Alvin, please take a look at our help files,
http://www.hptuners.com/help/vcm_editor_rtt.htm
You'll see that RTT is much more than "bi-directional controls". Its an operating system enhancement, a VCM Enhancement.
It allows tuning of much more than just a VE table. You can tune idle tables, VE, Spark, MAF, Knock, etc.... all through our real time tuning solution.
- Keith, HP Tuners
http://www.hptuners.com/help/vcm_editor_rtt.htm
You'll see that RTT is much more than "bi-directional controls". Its an operating system enhancement, a VCM Enhancement.
It allows tuning of much more than just a VE table. You can tune idle tables, VE, Spark, MAF, Knock, etc.... all through our real time tuning solution.
- Keith, HP Tuners
07-06-2006, 12:18 AM
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Ok, thanks Keith!
One more 'problem' I'm having. To get my VE's dialed in....I have to increment the values fractionally. IE say a cell is 16:1 afr, and the VE value is 40. I have to make it 40.3 to make it 14.5.
Why is my car so dang touchy? This will make it pretty durned hard to tune. Also, FWIW, the few cells I do have dialed in fairly well, are way different than other bins i've seen. i looked at a stocker, and a buds heads/g5x3 VE tables and they are way higher. Also, my bud seemed to think my wideband seemed to bounce around quite a bit.
When I ordered my injectors (lucas 42.5s) from speed inc, i had them sent directly to ARE when they did my motor. I'm wondering know if I even have 42.5's in it, maybe they put 60's in or something? That clown-show really did a number on my motor, they have/had no clue whats in the motor. I redid it recently and hardly anything was what they told me it was supposed to be.
One more 'problem' I'm having. To get my VE's dialed in....I have to increment the values fractionally. IE say a cell is 16:1 afr, and the VE value is 40. I have to make it 40.3 to make it 14.5.
Why is my car so dang touchy? This will make it pretty durned hard to tune. Also, FWIW, the few cells I do have dialed in fairly well, are way different than other bins i've seen. i looked at a stocker, and a buds heads/g5x3 VE tables and they are way higher. Also, my bud seemed to think my wideband seemed to bounce around quite a bit.
When I ordered my injectors (lucas 42.5s) from speed inc, i had them sent directly to ARE when they did my motor. I'm wondering know if I even have 42.5's in it, maybe they put 60's in or something? That clown-show really did a number on my motor, they have/had no clue whats in the motor. I redid it recently and hardly anything was what they told me it was supposed to be.
07-06-2006, 12:37 AM
#6
at a minimum please post any issues you have in the bugs section on hptuners site this thread sums it up http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4143 start by contacting support...if for some reason they dont respond(highly unlikely) if you have a problem post in their bugs section...mods will notify hpt of any serious issues.
Thanks
Bill
Thanks
Bill
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07-06-2006, 02:49 AM
#8
Originally Posted by Alvin
Theres a calculated PID in EFIlive that lets you see volumetric effeciency %.. I think RTT is just a fancy set of bi-directional controls that logs that effeciency % and puts it in a histogram. The final piece of the puzzle is when they let you make bi-directional fueling controls per cell in that histogram.
Thats my theroy anyway.
Thats my theroy anyway.
it is emulating the hardware(just like teh moates does-only on a smaller scale)
it is very fast and has no issues with keeping up...
07-06-2006, 09:20 AM
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Dude its nowhere near the same as the moates system. Speed is many orders of magnatude slower in hpt.
Yeah it works and yeah its useful no doubt. But its not a replacement for the full road runner system, anyone with half a clue about how both work can see that.
Yeah it works and yeah its useful no doubt. But its not a replacement for the full road runner system, anyone with half a clue about how both work can see that.
07-06-2006, 09:27 AM
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HPT has identified this as a slight flaw in their software.
From HPT....
We have a small bug in the scanner. You will need to change your cylinder volume in the editor to 0.71249 for a 5.7L
The scanner defaults to 5.7L, and that volume number is used to calculate the % for the VE table. You can change the value back to the correct cylinder volume when you are done with RTT. The cylinder volume is only used on the cranking VE table, so it will not affect your main VE tuning.
From HPT....
We have a small bug in the scanner. You will need to change your cylinder volume in the editor to 0.71249 for a 5.7L
The scanner defaults to 5.7L, and that volume number is used to calculate the % for the VE table. You can change the value back to the correct cylinder volume when you are done with RTT. The cylinder volume is only used on the cranking VE table, so it will not affect your main VE tuning.
07-06-2006, 09:38 AM
#11
Originally Posted by Greg Fell
HPT has identified this as a slight flaw in their software.
From HPT....
We have a small bug in the scanner. You will need to change your cylinder volume in the editor to 0.71249 for a 5.7L
The scanner defaults to 5.7L, and that volume number is used to calculate the % for the VE table. You can change the value back to the correct cylinder volume when you are done with RTT. The cylinder volume is only used on the cranking VE table, so it will not affect your main VE tuning.
From HPT....
We have a small bug in the scanner. You will need to change your cylinder volume in the editor to 0.71249 for a 5.7L
The scanner defaults to 5.7L, and that volume number is used to calculate the % for the VE table. You can change the value back to the correct cylinder volume when you are done with RTT. The cylinder volume is only used on the cranking VE table, so it will not affect your main VE tuning.
07-06-2006, 09:58 AM
#13
Originally Posted by ringram
Dude its nowhere near the same as the moates system. Speed is many orders of magnatude slower in hpt.
Yeah it works and yeah its useful no doubt. But its not a replacement for the full road runner system, anyone with half a clue about how both work can see that.
Yeah it works and yeah its useful no doubt. But its not a replacement for the full road runner system, anyone with half a clue about how both work can see that.
what he just said is that the cable (aka bidirctional control) is too slow for the "VE table" lookup.. true.
and that they're emulating the hardware (the flash memory ) in the ram... true.
and you might not realize it, but the basic way Moates system, including his other emulator systems, work... is by using ram to emulate the chip or flash memory.... but moates does the ENTIRE bin... they're doing it on a "smaller scale" with only the table.
the last thing he said is that its more then fast enough.. and it is more then fast enough, the ram hardware is capable of actually being quicker then the normal lookup.. although it isnt because its all off the same clock signal.
on a side note:
its very annoying how you people fight back and forth about stupid crap. it always manages to clutter every tuning thread.
07-06-2006, 10:38 AM
#15
Originally Posted by Greg Fell
HPT has identified this as a slight flaw in their software.
From HPT....
We have a small bug in the scanner. You will need to change your cylinder volume in the editor to 0.71249 for a 5.7L
The scanner defaults to 5.7L, and that volume number is used to calculate the % for the VE table. You can change the value back to the correct cylinder volume when you are done with RTT. The cylinder volume is only used on the cranking VE table, so it will not affect your main VE tuning.
From HPT....
We have a small bug in the scanner. You will need to change your cylinder volume in the editor to 0.71249 for a 5.7L
The scanner defaults to 5.7L, and that volume number is used to calculate the % for the VE table. You can change the value back to the correct cylinder volume when you are done with RTT. The cylinder volume is only used on the cranking VE table, so it will not affect your main VE tuning.
07-06-2006, 01:56 PM
#17
Originally Posted by ringram
Dude its nowhere near the same as the moates system. Speed is many orders of magnatude slower in hpt.
Yeah it works and yeah its useful no doubt. But its not a replacement for the full road runner system, anyone with half a clue about how both work can see that.
Yeah it works and yeah its useful no doubt. But its not a replacement for the full road runner system, anyone with half a clue about how both work can see that.
never said it was teh same...
just said that it operates in the same way...as an emulator..and that its not bidirectional controls like some certain people think
07-06-2006, 02:27 PM
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Your comments are very misleading ringram.
Our help files state exactly how we implement the RTT system. We even have examples of how its used. We're also working on some demo's to help make it even more clear.
The only delay is communications bus itself. In this case, we are using the VPW bus which is slower than a USB channel.
Unless you are changing many cells at once, this is not an issue.
Autotune and tuning on the dyno you change one or a few cells at once, which is near instant.
RTT is a really enjoyable tool to use. I'm sure our customers are going to love it.
Its a simply $49 VCM Enhancement for 1bar and MAF applications.. many customers already have these vcm enhancements so they will receive RTT addition for free (just need to reapply the new enhancement to the stock file). A software based tuning solution for $49 seems like a really neat feature imho. So far the feedback has been really positive.
- Keith, HP Tuners
Our help files state exactly how we implement the RTT system. We even have examples of how its used. We're also working on some demo's to help make it even more clear.
The only delay is communications bus itself. In this case, we are using the VPW bus which is slower than a USB channel.
Unless you are changing many cells at once, this is not an issue.
Autotune and tuning on the dyno you change one or a few cells at once, which is near instant.
RTT is a really enjoyable tool to use. I'm sure our customers are going to love it.
Its a simply $49 VCM Enhancement for 1bar and MAF applications.. many customers already have these vcm enhancements so they will receive RTT addition for free (just need to reapply the new enhancement to the stock file). A software based tuning solution for $49 seems like a really neat feature imho. So far the feedback has been really positive.
- Keith, HP Tuners
07-10-2006, 08:37 AM
#19
Originally Posted by Greg Fell
HPT has identified this as a slight flaw in their software.
From HPT....
We have a small bug in the scanner. You will need to change your cylinder volume in the editor to 0.71249 for a 5.7L
The scanner defaults to 5.7L, and that volume number is used to calculate the % for the VE table. You can change the value back to the correct cylinder volume when you are done with RTT. The cylinder volume is only used on the cranking VE table, so it will not affect your main VE tuning.
From HPT....
We have a small bug in the scanner. You will need to change your cylinder volume in the editor to 0.71249 for a 5.7L
The scanner defaults to 5.7L, and that volume number is used to calculate the % for the VE table. You can change the value back to the correct cylinder volume when you are done with RTT. The cylinder volume is only used on the cranking VE table, so it will not affect your main VE tuning.
Not to belabor the point, but will this be fixed in the next release (2.1.13 or whatever) or will there be an incremental fix that takes care it before the next release???
07-10-2006, 07:16 PM
#20
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Originally Posted by SideStep
Not to belabor the point, but will this be fixed in the next release (2.1.13 or whatever) or will there be an incremental fix that takes care it before the next release???
I'm doing it now and it will go into whatever beta software is available in a week or so.
-Ken