Johnny_B_Good

Greetings everyone! I'm a new member here transplanting from a GTO forum. I had some questions and was hoping I could draw upon this group's collective wisdom.

Background: I've been an F-body driver for over 25 years now and have owned nothing but Pontiacs (well, and a Honda motorcycle). I started as a teenager with a 1983 Trans Am (with GM 350 HO 4bbl crate motor) that was totaled when a Tahoe T-boned me in early college. Put the engine and transmission in a 1982 Firebird S/E $400 junkyard find, kept that until I was done with college and had a more positive cash flow when I bought a 2001 Firebird vert. Was always dissatisfied with the V6 (some of us never totally grow up), so when kid #2 came along and I needed something with bigger back seats to accommodate two car seats I upgraded to a 2006 GTO (impulse blue/blue interior, M6). I was planning on keeping the car forever but Hurricane Michael changed my plans and dropped a pine tree on top of the roof over the driver's head. Estimated $14k-$26k to repair the damage. RIP GTO.

I decided it would be too dang expensive and time-consuming to find another GTO in the same (excellent, well-cared-for) condition and I didn't want to have to start over with all the fixes and upgrades on another GTO (better brakes/rotors, one-piece driveshaft, LS7 clutch and Ram flywheel, mildly improved exhaust, other little stuff) so I looked for Plan B: find an inexpensive body and put the GTO engine and transmission in. After doing some homework on here it looked like the LS2 swap into a Trans Am wasn't too unreasonable, particularly since the GTO uses the older series LS2. Plus, the kids are older now and the smaller booster seats will fit in the back of a Trans Am. So I shopped around and ended up with a 2000 non-WS6 Trans Am in very good cosmetic condition inside and out but with 200k miles on it so the price was way down. As much as I liked the GTO, if I'm brutally honest with myself I think I'm going to be happier with the Trans Am, especially once it's beefed up a bit. I recognize it's considered by many to more cost effective to build up an LS1 than replace it with an LS2, but in this case the engine is free and I'd like to preserve some of my investment in it and this seems to be the least expensive way to end with with a reliable, well-maintained car I'm happy with until I'm too old to work the clutch and/or it's illegal to buy gasoline.

Question time:

(1) I assume the car is not a WS6, but it's hard to tell since it has aftermarket wheels, aftermarket hood, aftermarket air cleaner (Volante), and someone removed the door sticker with the RPO codes. It does feel like it has the close ratio steering, at least compared with my memories of the old 2001 'vert. Is there another way to tell if it's supposed to be a WS6 or do I need to see if the Chevy dealer will give me an RPO printout? I don't like the hood (Firehawk-style, and looks cool, but sticks up a couple inches higher than stock and is hard to see over) or wheels and will eventually replace them (likely with stock components), and if it's supposed to be a WS6 I'll work on replacing it with WS6 stuff. If it's not supposed to be a WS6 then there's no point paying a premium for WS6 stuff, y'know? (there's probably no sense in it anyway, but it'll assuage my guilt if I don't feel like I'm "downgrading" my car)

(2) I have two complete cars to work with, so the parts for the swap shouldn't be a problem. I know I'm going to have to get some wiring extensions, etc for the engine swap. However, what else can I pull off of the GTO? Whatever is left on the GTO is going to be parted out / sold to the junkyard so I want to get as much "good stuff" off as I can. I'm assuming the brakes won't fit, the exhaust won't translate over, and the rear end won't match up, but y'all know a lot more about this stuff than I do. Is there anything else useful the GTO can donate while I've got it?

(3) Transmission: I think both cars use the same T56 transmission, but there may be minor vehicle-specific differences. Given that the transmission that's already in the Trans Am feels perfectly smooth and fine after 200k miles, I'm guessing it doesn't make sense to replace it with the GTO transmission that has over 100k miles, and I'd be better off saving the money for replacing the transmission entirely with a new one down the road (if it ever dies on me--I haven't heard of too many people with dead T56s). Is there something else I should be aware of when making the decision whether to leave the transmission alone or swap that over from the GTO, too?

(4) Exhaust upgrade: I know there is a different opinion for every member here, but I have to ask. Really my only two complaints about the Trans Am are that it doesn't have quite as much power as the GTO (about to fix that!) and it doesn't have the satisfying rumble the GTO had. The GTO had its stock muffler, manifolds, cat, etc. but with some sort of (probably cheap) aftermarket resonators when I bought it (used), but when the resonators fell apart inside I had them replaced with glasspacks. Gave it a pleasantly raspy sound. I don't track my car and use it as a daily driver so I don't want my car to be obnoxiously loud, but it would be nice if it had a little more aggressive tone to it. The 400hp from the LS2 is plenty of power for me, so I don't necessarily need the highest-performing "fire breathing monster" exhaust, but I also don't want to end up with something that is ill-suited for the LS2. What would you all recommend with a budget of, say, $500-1000 for exhaust parts? I prefer a more staccato, raspy sound to just a loud, dull roar. But I also don't want to **** off the neighbors too much in the mornings when I leave for work before they get up. I also don't want to make the ground clearance worse than it already is--the GTO didn't scrape on speed bumps as badly as F-bodies do.

(5) Air cleaner: I don't like this Volante two-cone thing because while it looks good the sucking sound it makes gets on my nerves and I'm suspicious about the open filter elements and what they do to the overall lifespan of the engine. I'm concerned a stock (non-WS6) air cleaner might be inadequate for the LS2 or would otherwise rob performance, so is there something y'all would recommend that's closer to stock than the Volante, not as noisy, provides adequate airflow to the LS2, and that will fit under a stock, non-WS6 hood? Keep in mind I don't have *any* of the stock air cleaner parts and would have to buy whatever stock parts would be reused with, say, a lid-only aftermarket upgrade.

(6) Anything else I should look into replacing/upgrading/doing preventive maintenance on while I've got the engine out? With two young children I don't have the time to do much of anything myself, so it's all going to have to be done by my trusty local mechanic shop. When I sell what's left of the GTO and the leftover LS1 and T56 it should offset much of the labor costs. I'm planning on keeping the car indefinitely, so if there are some long-term-care things I should do that'll save me money over the next 30 years I'd appreciate the advice.

Thanks in advance, everyone!

wssix99

iTrader: (5)

1) Yes, a dealer should be able to get you a reprint of the RPO sticker given your VIN.

2) The GTO is not an F-Body and is based off of a Holden. Not much will be plug-and-play.

3) The Transmissions are the same but the shifter sections are different. You can Frankenstein parts from the two - but save one when you are done. These transmissions are rare, sought after, and worth a good bit of coin.

4) Search this site for exhaust threads. You'll find some with videos so you can hear sounds of different setups.

5) Stay with the stock air cleaner. It should be just fine. This site is littered with the bodies of LS owners who have gone with oiled air cleaners to find greatly reduced performance and issues due to oil shedding off and corrupting sensors. Know ye signs of evil before ye go forth!


6) Paint the engine bay! (You can even rattle can it.) There are some members here who have had great results with that.

Johnny_B_Good

Thanks for the feedback. That's pretty much what I expected, so I'm glad to hear I'm on the right track. Looked up prices for a T56--holy moly that seems to be worth way more than I expected. Not sure where/how I'd store that, though.

The only thing with exhaust videos is that the exhaust is however loud you turn up your computer/phone speakers. Hard to get a real sense of volume, and the sound quality is only as good as the recorder's microphone. The Borla 140028 seems popular, is in the middle of expected budget range, and stainless steel is appealing. It sounds different in every video I've seen though.

That's about how I feel about oiled filters as well. Seems like a great way to suck extra dust into the engine, too.

Thanks again!

wssix99

iTrader: (5)

Indeed.

There is no problem that money can't solve.


You have a kitchen, don't you??? (Seriously - Most of us have stored car parts in the kitchen, living room, etc. and survived the wrath of our significant other, parents, etc. They all get over it. Especially if the exercise is going to bring in a couple of G's.)


I'd suggest starting a separate thread on this topic in the External Engine sections and you should pointed feedback with that.

JohnnyBs98WS6Rag

iTrader: (1)

If your new TA isn't trying to look like a WS6, it most likely isn't. One thing often overlooked is the raised airbox / upper radiator support. If the air intake opening is <1" high, its not a WS6.

Also, I'm pretty sure the steering rack ratio was the same for all 4th-gen F-bodies, all years. If not, this would be news to me (and I do learn new things everyday!).

Johnny_B_Good

Hmmm. Multiquote doesn't seem to be operating like I thought it should, or at least isn't cooperating with me at the moment. Or I'm not smart enough to use the system. Have to do this the old fashioned way.

wssix99: "You have a kitchen, don't you??? (Seriously - Most of us have stored car parts in the kitchen, living room, etc. and survived the wrath of our significant other, parents, etc. They all get over it. "

I suppose I could put it in the kids' play room. They need to learn about this stuff sometime. Or I could wrap it in fabric and see how long it takes the boss lady to notice I swapped out the ottoman. I think I can come up with something to save the thing for when/if I eventually do need a transmission replacement.

wssix99: " I'd suggest starting a separate thread on this topic in the External Engine sections and you should pointed feedback with that"

Will do, thanks for the suggestion.

JohnnyB: If your new TA isn't trying to look like a WS6, it most likely isn't. One thing often overlooked is the raised airbox / upper radiator support. If the air intake opening is <1" high, its not a WS6.
Also, I'm pretty sure the steering rack ratio was the same for all 4th-gen F-bodies, all years. If not, this would be news to me (and I do learn new things everyday!). "

I sure hope it's not. Saves me from spending a stoopit amount of money. "Putting it back the way it was" is a lot cheaper on a regular T/A. There are no original airbox components on the car, so there's no joy there. Looks like I'm doomed to a three hour wait with the Chevy dealer. I've never had a good experience with them.

I could have sworn I read something once upon a time that the WS6s had a different steering ratio, but maybe I'm getting my memories mixed up with previous generation cars. In any case, the Trans Am steering feels tighter than I remember the steering feeling on the 2001 V6 vert. Maybe the previous owner modified something. The rest of the car is refreshingly familiar--I'd missed having a Firebird. The GTO is a better constructed car but the Trans Am feels more "right" somehow.

wssix99

iTrader: (5)

I have a large garage now, but my wife still holds over my head the time I stored tires in the foyer and left oil rings in the hard wood floor. So, "accessorizing" is indeed critical. I'm not sure if the play room is so great, but maybe it would fit if it became a mechanical learning tool? Maybe the boss can give constructive advise/partnering if you agree to split the proceeds for the eventual spare transmission sale?

There's noting special about the WS6. I do recall that the V6 has a different steering rack, though. At this age, any one of these cars can feel different than another due to the suspension, tie rod, and other wear.

Johnny_B_Good

Thanks for the feedback and pointers. Much appreciated!