2004-2005gto???
02-18-2018, 10:24 PM
#1
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2004-2005gto??? I'm looking to purchase a GTO completely stock just can't make a decision and looking for some help into preferences between the LS1 GTO and the LS2 GTO and what are the pros and cons of each one my 2001 WS6 was just totaled out THANKS FOR THE HELP
Last edited by Ws6forever; 02-18-2018 at 10:25 PM. Reason: Words
02-18-2018, 10:39 PM
#2
To sum it up 2004 has LS1 5.7 4l60e (if auto) , single exit rear exhaust , flat non scooped hood. I believe the brakes are a little smaller and the rear is different (supposedly a bit weaker I guess.)
2005-06 has LS2 6.0 , 4l65e (if auto) , dual exit rear bumper, scooped hood , larger brakes , stronger rear . There may be a few other things but that's the big ones at least.
It's all up to you on which one you want to choose. What looks best of what your plans are. I myself own a 04 but it has a 05 rear bumper /exhaust setup, non scooped hood (I prefer the flat hoods) with a 5.3 out of a truck. So I truly have the definition of a bastardized GTO..lol.
2005-06 has LS2 6.0 , 4l65e (if auto) , dual exit rear bumper, scooped hood , larger brakes , stronger rear . There may be a few other things but that's the big ones at least.
It's all up to you on which one you want to choose. What looks best of what your plans are. I myself own a 04 but it has a 05 rear bumper /exhaust setup, non scooped hood (I prefer the flat hoods) with a 5.3 out of a truck. So I truly have the definition of a bastardized GTO..lol.
02-19-2018, 01:02 PM
#3
Rear differentials are the same. The 04 has a smaller pinion flange. The 05/06 had the 6.0 engine. It is basically the same as the 5.7, with a larger bore and updated block. Knock sensors are on the side of the block instead of the valley. 4L65 in the 05/06 is a little stronger trans. Not much difference. Just get the best overall car that you can find.
02-22-2018, 11:57 AM
#6
TECH Enthusiast
Rear differentials are the same. The 04 has a smaller pinion flange. The 05/06 had the 6.0 engine. It is basically the same as the 5.7, with a larger bore and updated block. Knock sensors are on the side of the block instead of the valley. 4L65 in the 05/06 is a little stronger trans. Not much difference. Just get the best overall car that you can find.
True in the boldened.
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03-28-2018, 03:17 PM
#8
Just get another WS6......I said it
Honestly I drove a few examples of both and just couldn't pass the differences to go with LS1. I am also a huge fan of the 05 and 06 model year only colors (SRM, BOM, YJ, MBM) so that kind of pretty much answered the question for me but the difference in the bumpers and the LS2 just seemed significantly more powerful (although mine had full bolt ons) it only made sense.
It all comes down to what your looking to pay though. If your looking to stay under 10K I would say stay LS1GTO all the way as any LS2 under that is usually garbage. If your above $11K I don't see why you would chose an LS1 as there are plenty of mid mileage LS2 gtos that can be had around between $11 and $15K. If you money is no option then I would find an LS2 with all the modifications you would plan to do in the future. There are plenty of $17K-$22K LS2GTOs that are setup with pretty much every modification available and this will save you a boat load of money in the end (i.e. let someone else have already sunk the money into it).
Honestly I drove a few examples of both and just couldn't pass the differences to go with LS1. I am also a huge fan of the 05 and 06 model year only colors (SRM, BOM, YJ, MBM) so that kind of pretty much answered the question for me but the difference in the bumpers and the LS2 just seemed significantly more powerful (although mine had full bolt ons) it only made sense.
It all comes down to what your looking to pay though. If your looking to stay under 10K I would say stay LS1GTO all the way as any LS2 under that is usually garbage. If your above $11K I don't see why you would chose an LS1 as there are plenty of mid mileage LS2 gtos that can be had around between $11 and $15K. If you money is no option then I would find an LS2 with all the modifications you would plan to do in the future. There are plenty of $17K-$22K LS2GTOs that are setup with pretty much every modification available and this will save you a boat load of money in the end (i.e. let someone else have already sunk the money into it).
04-10-2018, 11:03 PM
#9
I have an 04. I THOUGHT there wasn’t much difference. I should have waited. I’ve been slowly upgrading my car as I can. But let me tell you the differences that people have left out.
05-06
bigger stronger driveshaft. It’s not just the flange. I have pics to prove it. I have an 06 driveshaft and diff in my car. Just put it in last weekend because I tore up the 04 driveshaft
The half shafts are stronger. I have some out an 06 on my floor and they are thicker. Also a different part number.
You have ave door lock buttons. Not in the 04. You have to reach in an awkward position to unlock the door unless you put the car in park and it’ll unlock itself. Annoying at times.
06 has lighted steering wheel comtrols
better 243 heads in 05-06
electric throttle body instead of cable driven. Better, newer, faster ecm. Easier to tune idle and low speed with a big cam (what I’m told). Iac is slow to react in the 04 cars
90mm throttle body on the 05-06
75mm on the 04
85mm maf on the 05-06
75ish on the 04
Better looking black tail lights
has a removable lower rear bumper valence that you can get in carbon fiber.
Brakes are WAAAAY better. I put 06 brakes on mine. The 04 are horrible and the rotors are so tiny that they warp REALLY easy
the ecm is in a better place on the 05-06
transmission has 5 pinion planets to hold extra tq vs 4 pinion planets in the 04. I rebuilt my trans and put 5 pinion planets in whale I was at it.
Of course the separated exhaust on the 05-06 vs duals run side by side on the 04
my vote. Just wait and find at least an 05. If I weren’t so far along with my car I’d sell it and get a newer model. Trust me. You’ll wish you did.
05-06
bigger stronger driveshaft. It’s not just the flange. I have pics to prove it. I have an 06 driveshaft and diff in my car. Just put it in last weekend because I tore up the 04 driveshaft
The half shafts are stronger. I have some out an 06 on my floor and they are thicker. Also a different part number.
You have ave door lock buttons. Not in the 04. You have to reach in an awkward position to unlock the door unless you put the car in park and it’ll unlock itself. Annoying at times.
06 has lighted steering wheel comtrols
better 243 heads in 05-06
electric throttle body instead of cable driven. Better, newer, faster ecm. Easier to tune idle and low speed with a big cam (what I’m told). Iac is slow to react in the 04 cars
90mm throttle body on the 05-06
75mm on the 04
85mm maf on the 05-06
75ish on the 04
Better looking black tail lights
has a removable lower rear bumper valence that you can get in carbon fiber.
Brakes are WAAAAY better. I put 06 brakes on mine. The 04 are horrible and the rotors are so tiny that they warp REALLY easy
the ecm is in a better place on the 05-06
transmission has 5 pinion planets to hold extra tq vs 4 pinion planets in the 04. I rebuilt my trans and put 5 pinion planets in whale I was at it.
Of course the separated exhaust on the 05-06 vs duals run side by side on the 04
my vote. Just wait and find at least an 05. If I weren’t so far along with my car I’d sell it and get a newer model. Trust me. You’ll wish you did.
Last edited by Kfxguy; 04-10-2018 at 11:14 PM.
04-20-2018, 02:07 PM
#10
TECH Enthusiast
I have an 04. Bought new not tired as you did. Mine is fine. Still is.
Some of the items you mentioned are nice and also unnoticeable in everyday driving or even slightly modified use or even more since the folks who break drivetrain related are at the upper end of the power mods.
Some items you mentioned are false as in the ECM misinformation. Or even the alleged superiority of drive by wire over cable.
Front brake calipers are larger and tire quality is more of a determinate of braking distance. Shall I bring up that famous road test review where the 05 with worn tires stopped longer distance than the 04?
Some are subjective as in the fake scoops being nicer. The door lock stuff is pure homo **** on your part. Same with the ECM location bitching. Pure prison gay stuff there.
The automatic transmission is a different model in the 2005+ vs. 2004. Manuals are the same transmission.
You should sell yours if you are unhappy. Life too short to have a negative complex over your own car. Car is 14-12 years old now and one cannot be too picky. Plus with the phenomenal wreck rate in the hands of FPFQers.
You forgot the early 2005 oil leak issues, poor flow characteristics of the LS2 manifold. The fact that none of the drivetrain improvements made the later GTOs any less skittish in poor traction conditions. Leading to the wicked wrecked rate.
Car is a niche and not a cheap one to maintain or for the ignorant. Too bad you were when you bought one. That is really the cautionary tale here. Don't be an idiot like this guy and purchase a car you know nothing about.
Some of the items you mentioned are nice and also unnoticeable in everyday driving or even slightly modified use or even more since the folks who break drivetrain related are at the upper end of the power mods.
Some items you mentioned are false as in the ECM misinformation. Or even the alleged superiority of drive by wire over cable.
Front brake calipers are larger and tire quality is more of a determinate of braking distance. Shall I bring up that famous road test review where the 05 with worn tires stopped longer distance than the 04?
Some are subjective as in the fake scoops being nicer. The door lock stuff is pure homo **** on your part. Same with the ECM location bitching. Pure prison gay stuff there.
The automatic transmission is a different model in the 2005+ vs. 2004. Manuals are the same transmission.
You should sell yours if you are unhappy. Life too short to have a negative complex over your own car. Car is 14-12 years old now and one cannot be too picky. Plus with the phenomenal wreck rate in the hands of FPFQers.
You forgot the early 2005 oil leak issues, poor flow characteristics of the LS2 manifold. The fact that none of the drivetrain improvements made the later GTOs any less skittish in poor traction conditions. Leading to the wicked wrecked rate.
Car is a niche and not a cheap one to maintain or for the ignorant. Too bad you were when you bought one. That is really the cautionary tale here. Don't be an idiot like this guy and purchase a car you know nothing about.
Last edited by Felix C; 04-20-2018 at 03:06 PM.
04-20-2018, 02:40 PM
#11
I have an 04. Bought new not tired as you did. Mine is fine. Still is.
Some of the items you mentioned are nice and also unnoticeable in everyday driving or even slightly modified use or even more.
Some items you mentioned are false as in the ECM misinformation.
Brakes are larger and tire quality is more of a determinate of braking distance. Shall I bring up that famous road test review where the 05 with more worn tires stopped longer than the 04?
Some are subjective as in the fake scoops being nicer. The door lock stuff is pure homo **** on your part. Only the 2006 had them. So you shitting on the 2005 as well. Same with the ECM location bitching.
You should sell yours if you are unhappy. Life too short to have a negative complex over your own car.
I notice you left out the negatives of the 05-06. Oh well. FPFQ has been true for almost a decade now.
Some of the items you mentioned are nice and also unnoticeable in everyday driving or even slightly modified use or even more.
Some items you mentioned are false as in the ECM misinformation.
Brakes are larger and tire quality is more of a determinate of braking distance. Shall I bring up that famous road test review where the 05 with more worn tires stopped longer than the 04?
Some are subjective as in the fake scoops being nicer. The door lock stuff is pure homo **** on your part. Only the 2006 had them. So you shitting on the 2005 as well. Same with the ECM location bitching.
You should sell yours if you are unhappy. Life too short to have a negative complex over your own car.
I notice you left out the negatives of the 05-06. Oh well. FPFQ has been true for almost a decade now.
never said I was unhappy. Did I? What information did I post that was inaccurate? I only post what I know as fact. You see, you’ll have these kind of people on the internet that are quick to correct you, so if I don’t know it to be fact, I don’t post it. Everything I posted was from personal experience. Example: I changed the brakes out on my car. They were definitely larger and the car definitely stops better. This is the year 2018 and the car is a 2004, so common sense would tell you I don’t have factory tires on the car. Next, I changed the rear end and driveshaft. They are different and I have side by side pics to prove it. The planets in the trans were definitely 4 pinion instead of 5 pinion because I rebuilt the trans myself. Not sure what your problem is but my post was intended to be informative, not a complaint fest, I posted what I was aware of for an uniformed potential buyer. I wish I had come across a post like I posted before I bought my car because had I known there was that many differences, I would have waited to find a 05-06. I’m happy with my car, although I’m changing the things on it that I want.
You think the door lock comment is some homo ****? Well I think your post is some homo ****. I’m free to feel like I shouldn’t have to reach in an awkward position to unlock my door. Guess gm didn’t think it was too homo because in the later model they included a lock button.
Maybe all the the other people who don’t like where the ecm is and moved theirs to inside the car, maybe they are just crazy too?
I didnt post negatives anout the 05-05 because I don’t own one. So once again, I pointed out what I do know.
04-20-2018, 02:46 PM
#12
I have an 04. Bought new not tired as you did. Mine is fine. Still is.
Some of the items you mentioned are nice and also unnoticeable in everyday driving or even slightly modified use or even more since the folks who break drivetrain related are at the upper end of the power mods.
Some items you mentioned are false as in the ECM misinformation. Or even the alleged superiority of drive by wire over cable.
Front brake calipers are larger and tire quality is more of a determinate of braking distance. Shall I bring up that famous road test review where the 05 with worn tires stopped longer than the 04?
Some are subjective as in the fake scoops being nicer. The door lock stuff is pure homo **** on your part. Same with the ECM location bitching. Pure prison gay stuff there.
The automatic transmission is a different model in the 2005+ vs. 2004. Manuals are the same transmission.
You should sell yours if you are unhappy. Life too short to have a negative complex over your own car. Car is 14-12 years old now and one cannot be too picky. Plus with the phenomenal wreck rate in the hands of FPFQers.
You forgot the early 2005 oil leak issues, poor flow characteristics of the LS2 manifold. The fact that none of the drivetrain improvements made the later GTOs any less skittish in poor traction conditions. Leading to the wicked wrecked rate.
Car is a niche and not a cheap one to maintain or for the ignorant. Too bad you were when you bought one. That is really the cautionary tale here. Don't be an idiot like this guy and purchase a car you know nothing about.
Some of the items you mentioned are nice and also unnoticeable in everyday driving or even slightly modified use or even more since the folks who break drivetrain related are at the upper end of the power mods.
Some items you mentioned are false as in the ECM misinformation. Or even the alleged superiority of drive by wire over cable.
Front brake calipers are larger and tire quality is more of a determinate of braking distance. Shall I bring up that famous road test review where the 05 with worn tires stopped longer than the 04?
Some are subjective as in the fake scoops being nicer. The door lock stuff is pure homo **** on your part. Same with the ECM location bitching. Pure prison gay stuff there.
The automatic transmission is a different model in the 2005+ vs. 2004. Manuals are the same transmission.
You should sell yours if you are unhappy. Life too short to have a negative complex over your own car. Car is 14-12 years old now and one cannot be too picky. Plus with the phenomenal wreck rate in the hands of FPFQers.
You forgot the early 2005 oil leak issues, poor flow characteristics of the LS2 manifold. The fact that none of the drivetrain improvements made the later GTOs any less skittish in poor traction conditions. Leading to the wicked wrecked rate.
Car is a niche and not a cheap one to maintain or for the ignorant. Too bad you were when you bought one. That is really the cautionary tale here. Don't be an idiot like this guy and purchase a car you know nothing about.
04-20-2018, 02:52 PM
#13
TECH Enthusiast
You spread incorrect and subjective information as fact so yeah you are.
Seriously complaining about the door switch and ECM location? Something no one ever did and I have been a GTO owner since 2004.
We always did complain about the slowwww power seats. All years.
You want nice tailights? Get some Holden HSV.
There are loads of issues with any car.
To cry about a car 12-14 years old now is pure bitch.
If you want easy, get a Mustang.
edit: But yeah the LS2 years are bit more HD in some drivetrain stuff and a stronger base engine. that is about it
Seriously complaining about the door switch and ECM location? Something no one ever did and I have been a GTO owner since 2004.
We always did complain about the slowwww power seats. All years.
You want nice tailights? Get some Holden HSV.
There are loads of issues with any car.
To cry about a car 12-14 years old now is pure bitch.
If you want easy, get a Mustang.
edit: But yeah the LS2 years are bit more HD in some drivetrain stuff and a stronger base engine. that is about it
Last edited by Felix C; 04-20-2018 at 03:17 PM.
04-20-2018, 06:39 PM
#14
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I bought my 2004 new in spring of 2005. 52K miles on it now and 4 engines later. -All cause I just get a bug for more...
Latest: 421cid Whippled LSX based LS "kinda" 7
Attachment 716996
My opinion. The 04's are cooler and underscored some. The later years with the bigger engine got more attention I think. If subtle is your thing, pull the wing off the back. I get mistaken for all kinds of cars that way. The single sided exhaust tends to downplay the car too.
Stock brakes suck. Almost from day one. I went Willwood and never looked back. Go north of 500 or so to the wheels and you'll need to start thinking about the rear end. X2 if you actually get it to hook up. Chris Nichols at G Force has that problem solved. Not cheap, but it gets the job done once.
Good luck!
Latest: 421cid Whippled LSX based LS "kinda" 7
Attachment 716996
My opinion. The 04's are cooler and underscored some. The later years with the bigger engine got more attention I think. If subtle is your thing, pull the wing off the back. I get mistaken for all kinds of cars that way. The single sided exhaust tends to downplay the car too.
Stock brakes suck. Almost from day one. I went Willwood and never looked back. Go north of 500 or so to the wheels and you'll need to start thinking about the rear end. X2 if you actually get it to hook up. Chris Nichols at G Force has that problem solved. Not cheap, but it gets the job done once.
Good luck!
04-20-2018, 07:24 PM
#16
I bought my 2004 new in spring of 2005. 52K miles on it now and 4 engines later. -All cause I just get a bug for more...
Latest: 421cid Whippled LSX based LS "kinda" 7
My opinion. The 04's are cooler and underscored some. The later years with the bigger engine got more attention I think. If subtle is your thing, pull the wing off the back. I get mistaken for all kinds of cars that way. The single sided exhaust tends to downplay the car too.
Stock brakes suck. Almost from day one. I went Willwood and never looked back. Go north of 500 or so to the wheels and you'll need to start thinking about the rear end. X2 if you actually get it to hook up. Chris Nichols at G Force has that problem solved. Not cheap, but it gets the job done once.
Good luck!
Latest: 421cid Whippled LSX based LS "kinda" 7
My opinion. The 04's are cooler and underscored some. The later years with the bigger engine got more attention I think. If subtle is your thing, pull the wing off the back. I get mistaken for all kinds of cars that way. The single sided exhaust tends to downplay the car too.
Stock brakes suck. Almost from day one. I went Willwood and never looked back. Go north of 500 or so to the wheels and you'll need to start thinking about the rear end. X2 if you actually get it to hook up. Chris Nichols at G Force has that problem solved. Not cheap, but it gets the job done once.
Good luck!
I do like the single exhaust outlet better. To be clear about my intention about my post was not to bitch about things like the above dumbass thinks, but to point out differences. I think that yahoo is butthurt that he bought the first year model and the next year there was lots of improvements to the car, 14 years later it still strikes a nerve with him, so he feels compelled to defend a car that in reality is slightly inferior (I own one and I’m not ashamed to admit the truth). Would I sell my car to get a newer model? No. Have I thought about it? Yea, I have. But what’s stops me is I bought this car with low miles for what I thought was a good deal ($8900) and this car is almost like new (contrary to want dipstick above is spewing). I couldn’t find a cleaner one than this one at the time. Mine doesn’t have that tear in the driver seat like most of them. There’s no broken plastic pieces in the interior and the body is straight and the paint is very good. I think the car lived under a carport most of its life and it still does. Getting back to my point, for anyone looking to buy one of these, do your research. Everything I’ve listed is factual. I’ve gone to far with my car to worry about trading up (yea, I said it, trade up on a newer improved model with more options, more power (stock) and more potential power) so ill keep the one I have. In my opinion, finding a low mileage, nicer car was more important to me. I’ve slowly been adding things to my car to update it, it’s easier to do that than to paint a car, and chase problems on a ragged out car.
04-21-2018, 07:53 PM
#17
You spread incorrect and subjective information as fact so yeah you are.
Seriously complaining about the door switch and ECM location? Something no one ever did and I have been a GTO owner since 2004.
We always did complain about the slowwww power seats. All years.
You want nice tailights? Get some Holden HSV.
There are loads of issues with any car.
To cry about a car 12-14 years old now is pure bitch.
If you want easy, get a Mustang.
edit: But yeah the LS2 years are bit more HD in some drivetrain stuff and a stronger base engine. that is about it
Seriously complaining about the door switch and ECM location? Something no one ever did and I have been a GTO owner since 2004.
We always did complain about the slowwww power seats. All years.
You want nice tailights? Get some Holden HSV.
There are loads of issues with any car.
To cry about a car 12-14 years old now is pure bitch.
If you want easy, get a Mustang.
edit: But yeah the LS2 years are bit more HD in some drivetrain stuff and a stronger base engine. that is about it
.
2004 throttle body is 78mm
2004 LS6 intake > 2005-06 LS2 intake
GM almost immediately issued a warning about LS2 heads consuming excessive oil
Cable TBs are actually easier to tune and more responsive than drive by wire
04-28-2018, 09:37 PM
#18
I bought my 2004 new in spring of 2005. 52K miles on it now and 4 engines later. -All cause I just get a bug for more...
Latest: 421cid Whippled LSX based LS "kinda" 7
My opinion. The 04's are cooler and underscored some. The later years with the bigger engine got more attention I think. If subtle is your thing, pull the wing off the back. I get mistaken for all kinds of cars that way. The single sided exhaust tends to downplay the car too.
Stock brakes suck. Almost from day one. I went Willwood and never looked back. Go north of 500 or so to the wheels and you'll need to start thinking about the rear end. X2 if you actually get it to hook up. Chris Nichols at G Force has that problem solved. Not cheap, but it gets the job done once.
Good luck!
Latest: 421cid Whippled LSX based LS "kinda" 7
My opinion. The 04's are cooler and underscored some. The later years with the bigger engine got more attention I think. If subtle is your thing, pull the wing off the back. I get mistaken for all kinds of cars that way. The single sided exhaust tends to downplay the car too.
Stock brakes suck. Almost from day one. I went Willwood and never looked back. Go north of 500 or so to the wheels and you'll need to start thinking about the rear end. X2 if you actually get it to hook up. Chris Nichols at G Force has that problem solved. Not cheap, but it gets the job done once.
Good luck!
04-29-2018, 04:39 PM
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59 years! I've owned 2004 and 2005 gto's.And a Ws6.I would rate the 2005 GTO with the LS2 A better ride! Little harder to get parts for.But worth it in the long haul.I recommend staying away from the 6 speeds manual.Too many problems.Automatics shift Fast enough.Plenty of Power.
04-29-2018, 11:26 PM
#20
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If you can’t shift it don’t buy it!!!
I have an 04 I got for a good deal, very clean.
I have done some upgrades like brakes and lines, along with other misc things. I couldn’t see all the excitement of the 05-06 for the extra 6k dollars, which I would have wanted to mod anyways. With all my mods I’m still ahead. Oh yeah I pulled that damn wing off too!
I have an 04 I got for a good deal, very clean.
I have done some upgrades like brakes and lines, along with other misc things. I couldn’t see all the excitement of the 05-06 for the extra 6k dollars, which I would have wanted to mod anyways. With all my mods I’m still ahead. Oh yeah I pulled that damn wing off too!